Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.
Verbatim text
Lee Matthew Jackson:
WP Innovator podcast, the podcast for web designers and design agencies exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now your host, Lee Jackson. Hi, and welcome to episode 31 of the WP Innovator podcast. This is your host, Lee Jackson. Today we have Bob wp. His real name’s Bob Dunn, but we all know him as Bob WP and he is a WooCommerce and WordPress legend. In today’s episode, you’re going to find out tons about Bob, his background and also he is going to name drop some epic WooCommerce plugins. So do encourage you to listen on.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
If you are a big fan of WooCommerce, then head on over to our Facebook group. You’ll be redirected if you go to leejacksondev.com group. Let’s have a conversation about WooCommerce. What are your favorite plugins? What do you love about it? What do you hate about it? Join other conversations as well. We’re still talking about contracts, we’re talking about hosting, we’re talking about WordPress themes. There are so many conversations going on over in the WP Innovator Facebook group. So again, that’s LeeJacksonDev.com group. See you over there.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And until then, on with the show. Hi, this is your host, Lee Jackson, and I have the bassiest Bob you’re ever going to listen to. Bob, how are you doing, mate?
Bob Dunn:
Hey, I’m doing good, Lee, how are you?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Oh, mate, that is such a good voice.
Bob Dunn:
I even went down a notch lower just for that. Thank you.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And in Audacity, there’s a bass filter as well. So I could. What I could do is just edit your voice even bassier because I’m quite like. I think I’m tenor. I think I’m more of a tenor sort of voice. And with you we could actually start. We just need a couple of other guys and we could be like the Dapper Dance, couldn’t we? Or something.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, sounds good.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That would be awesome. Well, this is the bassiest Bob you’ll ever hear. He is Bob wp the. Yes, that’s right. Bob wp. The Bob W. I couldn’t even do that. I was trying to rap the Bob WP that you will have heard of from his, well, two podcasts.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You had a previous podcast podcast, didn’t you? And you’ve also got the do the Woo podcast. And Bob is also an online authority on WordPress. He has the BobWP.com a website which is absolutely full of reviews and real valuable information for people who use WordPress. And I believe he also runs online training courses and physical training courses around. But that’s my introduction and I’ve probably screwed that one up. Bob, how about you say hi and just give us a little background on yourself, mate.
Bob Dunn:
Hey, Lee, thanks. Yeah, actually, that is pretty good. I’ve kind of gotten out of the online course realm at this point in time. In fact, we could talk a little bit about that later if you wanted to and stuff. But yeah, right now I’m in the space of just really pushing out a lot of content. I kind of give myself a title as just blogger and podcaster. I’ve done training for many years, both in person and online, and that was a. A good run.
Bob Dunn:
I love doing it and it taught me a lot about people, taught me a lot about WordPress, obviously. But right now I’m just really focused on pushing out the content on, like you said on BobWP, and also with the new podcast coming up and moving that to two times a week, which has been a little bit of a challenge, but exciting at the same time. So, yeah, it’s just, it’s. It’s all about content right now. And my wife Judy, who has been my business partner for hundreds of years, it seems like we have been together, she’s a writer, so she does a lot of the writing. I mean, I do the writing as well, obviously, but we’ve been kind of a team for many years and stuff. So.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, she writes all the good stuff. Is that right?
Bob Dunn:
Yeah. And she makes you write stuff. Sounds good. Sometimes I get, you know, sometimes I can really write well and put some real thought into it. Other times I’m just like, I gotta just churn this out. Then I give it to her and she says, oh, I can see you were in a bit, in a bit of a hurry on that one, huh?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You’re like, yes, dear.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah,
Lee Matthew Jackson:
that’s awesome. And I mean, you do. You create a lot of amazing content. And I gotta be honest, mate, I have done many WordPress searches because as part of my job, I’m building WordPress themes or I need to, you know, I’m trying to look for a plugin that does something. And I had heard of you and your podcast. It feels like years ago. I think you’ve been going for a long time now on creating content because I remember finding your website multiple times. Times over the last two or three years.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I could be right. Am I right? You’ve been around. You’ve been doing WP for quite a long time now.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, I started, I first kind of dabbled in it in 2006, really dove into it more in 2007 and really, really dove headfirst into it and all the training about six years ago. So been kind of going strong on that and like I said, at the same time doing a lot of different things, changing the business in and out, but also producing a lot of content during that entire period, which was critical to getting the brand, the name, just getting the, you know, the experience of putting together.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, I’ll just say wholeheartedly, thank you for all the content you put out because you have been responsible for me buying or getting hold of some really good plugins that I can use for my business because you’ve taken the time to put that amazing content out there. So let’s just have an emotional moment here for a minute. I’m just sending you a digital hug. Thank you so much. Yeah. Oh, I feel it too.
Bob Dunn:
Thanks.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So that’s bobwp.com head on over to bobwp.com and you’ll see what we’re talking about. If you haven’t been there, it is a jam packed full of information. So you mentioned you kind of got into WordPress back in 2006. How exactly did that happen? I always love to know people’s first experience of WordPress.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, I think it’s my wife and I had a marketing business, marketing design, copywriting business for like 20 years prior to that. So we were into print. And you know, at one point, I think Maybe in the 90s sometime, I started getting to the web a little bit, doing HTML sites and really like it. But as time went by, I knew I had to get online more and more. Print was starting kind of fade, not necessarily fade out, but it was just not as robust as it had been in the past. And so I started looking at what options I could get into as far as doing sites for my clients because I was basically referring them at that point without having to learn all the coding because I just, I didn’t like it. I didn’t want to be part of it. I wanted to leave that to the people that are good at it.
Bob Dunn:
And I, I came across WordPress and was like, well, this is kind of interesting. And like I said, that was in, I don’t know, 2006 or around there. Played around with it a bit and I started thinking, man, you know, I could probably do sites, design sites, use these templates and provide. Cause a lot of my clients, I had some big clients, but we had a lot of small business clients and just felt like a good fit because really I didn’t want to. I was tired of trying to build these HTML sites and always helping them update stuff. It really wasn’t my model. And I thought, I want something I can kind of hand off to these people and them not have to worry about getting hold of me when they want to change the copyright or simple things like that. And that’s what really appealed to me about WordPress.
Bob Dunn:
So I really started getting into it more and more. And then as I built my own site with it and moved on, I think it was like around 2009 or so, we had decided to really drop all our print projects. We still were doing a few of them and I said, I’m just going online. And I just decided, I’m just going to do WordPress. That’s all I’m going to do. I’m just going to do WordPress sites. And I think I hit at a time that was about perfect because it was like, wow, this is working. So that is kind of how I basically mutated into the WordPress world.
Bob Dunn:
Was really looking at a need that my clients had that I had to fill, and it seemed to work perfectly.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think I’ve got the title already. From print to WordPress.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, really?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I was gonna say One Man’s Journey, but that’s not true. It’s actually in your wife, so that’s. I’m trying to make that sound catchy, but I can’t in my head yet. Print is having a bit of a renaissance, though, funnily enough, people don’t get letters anymore. So the minute something arrives, me and my wife are fighting to open whatever it is.
Bob Dunn:
We don’t care.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Even if it’s the takeaway menu. We’re like, I’ll get it all the way downstairs.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, it’s definitely. I mean, business cards, even logo design. I did that for many years. And when the crowdsourcing got into logo design and everything, I thought, I’m not going to fight this. You know, this is the direction it’s going. I mean, people will still pay the bucks for it. Specific clients. But I said, the majority of people are going to go for this stuff.
Bob Dunn:
And, you know, I’m not one to sit there and go, oh, why are they taking over this part of my world? And whatever. It’s like, okay, move on, find something else.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But it sounds like you’ve spent the last few years shifting and changing as the world changes. You’ve kept changing your business, which is, I’m going to Guess one of your keys to success, mate. Because otherwise, if you were still doing print now, you may be struggling.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, exactly. And it is, It’s a technology. You’ve got to wrap your head around it. I know a lot of people in my demographic that, some business people that are still, oh, I just don’t want to do this or that. And I’m saying, hey, you know, you got to adapt. You got to. It’s. It’s.
Bob Dunn:
The only way it’s going to happen is to, is keep changing, keep morphing, you know, grab onto new ideas and, yeah, just have fun with it. Don’t. Don’t get all stressed out about it.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So at what point then. So you’ve established this online WordPress business, now you’re growing a WordPress business, at what point did you kind of make that shift to content creation?
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, I think that was probably around 2010 or so, because what we started doing, we started doing a lot of local workshops. I was living closer to Seattle, a little ways away from Seattle. Now that was around blogging, doing newsletters and WordPress. We were doing all these free presentations and stuff. And my wife started blogging around that time and really getting into it more and more. And it just. I found that I started liking that part of it a lot better than the actual design of things. And I found that teaching, getting up and talking to people or one on one, it was.
Bob Dunn:
It was really starting to grow on me. And I felt like I was a little bit natural for it because it just. It seemed like it was such an easy. I just blended into that right away. And so over time, we just started to doing more and more content. And I realized, because I was basically out there preaching this to people about blogging, I thought, you know, this is a way. This is one of the biggest tools out there to use. And so we both really glommed onto the blogging.
Bob Dunn:
And like I said, in turn, you know, the content went out through workshops, whether they’re online or in person as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s awesome. I love how you said preaching because just before we started recording, you mentioned that because of your deep voice, they said you should have either been in radio or being a preacher.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, Or I could have been actually a preacher on the radio and then I would have. Perfect.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You know, and the Almighty WordPress Church of WordPress. Hallelujah. Mopping your brow now and again.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, really.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Although to be honest, your passion’s very obvious around WordPress, so I would say you’re kind of a WordPress evangelist. Anyway. So you’re living the role, buddy. Living the role. Yeah.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And so you started creating content. So was that all just on BobWP? Was that where it all started in 2010 or had there been something prior to that?
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, you know it, boy. I did a lot of different stuff. I can’t remember. I wish I could remember exactly when I came up with the name BobWP, but it was around that time and at that same time, I was dabbling in some online courses. I was, I think I’d started a savvy WordPress.com site. So I was trying to branch out to some other things. But when I came up with that name, that was kind of the brand that I. It just happened.
Bob Dunn:
I was looking at domains and it’s weird because I was thinking of domain before my actual name and I saw that and I thought, I wonder how that would bring with people. You know, they probably. Some people had question what the WP is? You know, is it going to be whatever? So I said, heck with it, I’m just going to go for it. And so that was ye. That was the time. It really was that whole integration into WordPress. And at that time I was training and teaching, but I was also designing sites, so adding the content part of it was a natural. And for me, probably the reason I did initially was I knew, hey, that’s how I’m going to drive people to my site.
Bob Dunn:
I’m not just going to put up something and say, I do WordPress design, blah, blah, blah. It’s like, I’ve got to drive people there, I’ve got to teach them stuff. I want to be able to give them information that even the design. Excuse me. What really helped was when I was designing, I was doing so much content too, that it was easy to say to my customers, oh, yeah, you know, instead of you spending more money and time with me, now, I have this little tutorial over here that’ll show you how to put this plug in. So go do that. You know, you’ll save some bucks, you’ll get it installed yourself, you’ll learn it yourself. And that seemed to be a.
Bob Dunn:
A perfect match because I didn’t want to spend that time doing it. And then the client, of course, thought, well, this is cool. All these resources that my designer has as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That is so cool. I love that idea as well. Of, I mean, how do you stand out? So there’s so many web designers out there. How do you stand out from them? And you stand out by providing what you were doing, which Is that extra value, those free resources, etc. And on the flip side, obviously you found that it was super useful. I found the same thing as well. You know, I’ve done videos or I’ve done blog posts, etc. And I can just send clients.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So when they ask me a specific question, I’m just like, yeah, just go read that article. For example, someone was trying to brief me the other day, like trying to create a brief for a website, and they were really, really struggling and they didn’t necessarily want to pay me to do a brief for them. So I was last. Fine. There’s a blog post over there. Just go follow that. And it talks all about user stories and stuff like that. It’s a great, cool blog post and I found that was really helpful to them.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And then they sent me quite a cool brief back, which I was quite impressed with. So it works. Content creation works.
Bob Dunn:
Right. And, and it’s being able to provide those people those resources. They remember that, you know, and they’ll come back when they need something else. Maybe not necessarily another resource, but when they need your help again and actually are willing to hire you, it’s like, oh, yeah, I remember you helped me along the way. You answered these few little questions. You’ve always been real helpful. Here I am again.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And it helps to have a friendly face. Yeah, and you’ve got a friendly face.
Bob Dunn:
Thanks.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So when was the kind of the Eureka moment? I’m going to go into podcasting because that’s quite a step from. In my head, it’s quite a step from creating blog posts, et cetera, which you can kind of manage all the SEO of and stuff like that, and be keyword rich, etc. And then suddenly jumping into like a media role. So you’ve gone from print to building websites to creating word content, and then suddenly you’re making that shift into the Bob WP podcast. How did that happen and how did you find it?
Bob Dunn:
In the early days, actually, I first thought about it, it was probably. I wish again, I knew the exact. Even the year, maybe it was around 2011. I had been doing a lot of local workshops and stuff and two colleagues of mine, good friends in Seattle, did this workshop on podcasting. And that was kind of before podcasting, kind of had a slow little, kind of a lower level fade out. And then it popped up again big time at some point. But they, I went through this workshop with them and I thought, man, this is really cool. And they, they said, hey, you know, we’ve seen you present and you’ve got the voice for it, whatever, you know, you got to do this, you got the knowledge.
Bob Dunn:
Podcasting be great. Well, at that time it’s like, oh, how am I going to fit that in? And I was looking at what it takes. So basically it gelled in my mind for years. I knew that I wanted to do it, but both time wise and even content wise, I just wasn’t ready. And I believe it was year before last. So I think in 2014 I thought, I’m going to go for it. I’m going to just start this podcast. I’ve got to do it.
Bob Dunn:
And it was a short podcast and I called it WP Breakdown.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That was it.
Bob Dunn:
And, and it was, you know, I did like 10, 15 minute blurbs and it was just me talking about stuff and I actually did that for about, about a year, year and a half. There wasn’t, there wasn’t always consistency to it and I remember those disappointed days
Lee Matthew Jackson:
when I went to download the latest and it wasn’t there. Yeah.
Bob Dunn:
But anyway, and about, I think mid last year I started looking at, I thought, I think the problem is that this is I’m doing something that I’m doing on my blog already. And it just wasn’t, it just wasn’t. I wasn’t that it was exciting, but it was, there was no motivation. I was just, I was getting bored with it and I thought that’s not working, you know, if I’m getting bored with it, it’s going to come across that way. So I just basically pulled the switch on, said, hey people, you know, this isn’t my thing right now. I’ve got to really sit and think about what I want to do next. I said, I’m going to podcast, I know I’m going to do it, I just don’t know when. And I had to mullet over in my brain for, well, almost, not even quite a year.
Bob Dunn:
But that was mid last year. And then March I started to do the woo. And so I just, yeah, it was what am I going to do? And I wasn’t sitting there trying to, you know, spend hours thinking this through. I thought it’s just going to always be in the back of my head. I’m going to wait till something pops up. And I had gotten, I’d been doing WooCommerce for quite some time, been involved with it, really knew a lot of people and automatic and so it was, you know, a natural in a sense. But I started thinking one day I thought, well, wonder if people would be interested in Woocommerce podcast. So I got on Google and searched and there wasn’t anything.
Bob Dunn:
And I thought, okay, this is a red flag, because that doesn’t always mean there’s a need for it. It just means, you know, nobody’s found it to work or whatever. It’s kind of like, just because it’s not being done doesn’t mean you should do it type thing. And I started thinking it through a little bit more, had some ideas. Actually contacted somebody at Automatic, Patrick Rollin, because he’s kind of head of WooCommerce there. And I said, patrick, I’m thinking about this podcast. So him. And I bounced some ideas.
Bob Dunn:
He was great, giving me thoughts on it, what he thought was needed, what might work. We talked about, you know, should I be that focused? Should it be E commerce? And I was determined to kind of, you know, stick to woo. And we, after some talk, I said, I’m gonna do it. I’m just gonna do this. I think I’ve got some great ideas. He gave me some. Some really good ideas. And focusing it more on the shop owner rather than the developer and designer, which still they can listen, get a lot from it because they’re hearing what shop owners are struggling with and what they’ve succeeded with.
Bob Dunn:
So I just thought, man, I’m just going to do this. I’m going to. I’m going to do it. And I went to Wooconf in Austin. It was about two weeks after I started it, and I did a couple. I recorded a couple shows there. And there’s block. People said, hey, you know, this sounds like this is going to be great.
Bob Dunn:
So I came back and I thought, I’m going to up it to two times a week, see what happens. And so far, so good. It’s kind of insane. And I never. Yeah, you never know what you know. I never know what’s going to happen. But it just was. I just kind of took a dive into it, but it wasn’t something that I rushed into.
Bob Dunn:
I really thought about it for a long time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It’s funny, isn’t it, how when you do have an idea, even when you’re not actually. You’re not actually focusly thinking on it, as it were. I made up a word, but that your subconscious is kind of processing it over time and then suddenly it’s like, okay, I’m ready now. Let’s rock and roll.
Bob Dunn:
Yep, Just, let’s.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Let’s just drop the link right now. It’s Dothew W o O podcast dot com. Do the woo podcast dot com Rob, really easy to remember if you’re driving, but I will put it in the show. Notes, of course. Don’t start trying to write notes whilst driving. Keep your eye on the road. Now, one of the reasons, obviously why I wanted you on the podcast was because of do the Woo podcast. I think it’s a great resource.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So we’ve got quite a lot of web designers and design agencies listening. Not everybody who builds websites like, you know, in the techie geek camp, they’re actually people who will implement themes on behalf of clients, etc. So they need to learn more about WooCommerce, etc. But even, even the full service design agencies as well know very little about E commerce or want to know more about, you know, WooCommerce itself because they recognize it’s the leading plugin for WordPress. If, if we’re honest, let’s face it, it’s the leading ecommerce plugin for WordPress. So they know, they need to know more about it. They want to know, you know, what features are coming up in it, how are people using it, etc. So that they can get ideas then for their own clients.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So that, you know, that was one of the reasons why I wanted to, to get you on the podcast. So, for example, for people listening, I think the latest one, when I checked this morning was you had something about the latest version of WooCommerce. I think you were unpacking things.
Bob Dunn:
Exactly.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And then a couple of episodes ago, you’d done an interview with some, I think her name was Chloe.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And she’s got her own WooCommerce website, etc. So you’ve talked with her about her journey, etc.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, yeah. And it’s been really interesting because I really wanted to mix it up because I heard people talking about, I don’t like a podcast that does all fill in the blank, you know, or whatever, all interviews or all this. And like I said, when me and Patrick talked a lot about it, he said, you know, when you’re looking at shop owners, they don’t always need to know every little plugin, every little extension, all those little nuances. What they need is how the heck to run their site. And I thought with the interviews or shop owners, that’s the perfect way to do it, learn their experiences. And it’s not always directly related to WooCommerce because, for example, Chloe was the marketing manager for this scoutbooks, so she gave me some insight, a little bit of, you know, why they use WooCommerce. But also I’m able to share how people can use social and different kinds of marketing for E commerce. So I didn’t want it.
Bob Dunn:
I want WooCommerce to be the base, technically wise, but I also want people to be able to catch on to, you know, social stuff, marketing stuff, PR stuff, and even, you know, we’ll probably get in taxes at some point and shipping or whatever, all those. Because a lot of that stuff is the stuff that people really struggle with. And I think developers and designers listen to what they’re struggling with. Helps them in their business as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Definitely. It’s funny, I think you and me have running something very similar. So My base is WordPress, but I do again, cover some very different subjects, you know, like the marketing aspect as well. So we had Heather Haven with the other day, who’s not a WordPress developer or even sells anything to do with WordPress, but she knows about sales and she just like knocked my socks off describing our industry without, you know, from the outside. I was like, oh, my, Gideon, that is so cool. So maybe I should do an introduction to you too.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, really?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’ll be good.
Bob Dunn:
And I think, yeah, I think sometimes we focus so much on the technical part of things that. And I think that a lot of times, I mean, you’ll see. Okay, how to easily set this up. How to easily set this up. Well, yeah, everything’s so easy to set up in somebody’s eyes, but once you have it set up, there’s so much more. And that’s sounds like that’s what you’re touching on. That’s what I’m touching on. And that’s where the people really start to struggle.
Bob Dunn:
I mean, sure, the technical parts can have their own little intricacies and struggles, but in reality, it’s that promotion and marketing and social, all that stuff is the real challenge because you got to make money.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You may or may not have an answer for this, but over the last few months, then have you kind of discovered a particular thing that somebody’s doing with WooCommerce that you thought, wow, that’s freaking amazing.
Bob Dunn:
You know, boy, nothing really has hit me. It’s just so cool to hear. What I’m enjoying is hearing stories from people. For example, the scout books, they do these print books. So it was how a printer, traditional printer, took WooCommerce, got online and started selling online, which was a huge first step for them. And then when I talked to Xero Shoes, here’s a guy that creates these activewear sandals and how he got involved with Woocommerce and in fact, I met him at Wooconf. He spoke there and we were able to kind of connect. So I’m also.
Bob Dunn:
It’s nothing has just floored me, but it intrigues me hearing all the different products people are selling as well and that their challenges with the marketing. I mean, you know, for example, the sandals, the whole thing of people buying clothes online, you know, there’s some people that are dead set against it. And so that’s a challenge to overcome in itself. And even though it’s not WooCommerce related, heck, you know how many WooCommerce sites probably sell clothing? So there’s. They’re bringing that in. So nothing really has, you know, just wow yet. But they’ve been some cool stories. I just, I just love hearing the shop owner stories.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s awesome. And I think I particularly was impressed with ScoutBooks.com’s website. It looks absolutely gorgeous.
Bob Dunn:
Oh yeah, yeah. It’s really a nice site.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s scoutbooks.com if you want to go and just have a designer’s ooh, ah moment over it. It’s a really nicely implemented. If we think of WooCommerce and we think of default look and feel with the kind of the grid shopping layout and the default filters and the little slidy widget, there’s none of that. You wouldn’t even know this was WooCommerce. This looks absolutely phenomenally good.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah. And if anybody wants an example, they’re a perfect example. Taking a traditional brick and mortar business like printing and something that maybe they weren’t necessarily comfortable with right at the first going online. And look, look where they’re at now.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, it’s incredible. I love it. That’s such a great story. So remember that is do the woo podcast.com and obviously for Bob’s amazing articles, it’s still bobwp.com so when. How long has the podcast been going now? It feels like it’s been like three or four months now.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, it’s been. I think my first one was in March. I might have been beginning mid March and stuff. So it’s. It’s been going pretty. I think I just did number 18. Episode number 18. So I’m yeah.
Bob Dunn:
Cruising right along.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And you mentioned that. Right. Right from the get go, There was no WooCommerce podcast out there at all. Have you yet come to the point where you think, actually, yes, I’m in the right space and you know, we’re here to stay. Or are you still kind of gauging the market
Bob Dunn:
kind of in between those two, I’d say, because I think there’s a good space for it because of the fact that I just lost my train of thought there, that I can bring in all the other aspects of E commerce still through it and especially the shop owners right now, I don’t see any, I’m already planning, I have ideas a year down the road of some things I want to do with this. Yeah. So I, I’m not, I, I, I’m very, I, my wife calls me an optimistic fool because I, you know, I don’t. If something really hits a, hits a wall or whatever, I, I’ll drop it. But this one I, I feel good about and I’m, I’m enjoying the feedback. I know it’s going to take a while to build it up and everything, but I’ve gotten some good sponsors so far and yeah, I’m, I think it’s going to be here to stay for a while.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I assume as well with the sponsorships that it’s helped with the massive following that you’ve been able to gain through BobWP, because so far I’ve not actually managed to get any sponsorship for this podcast. So if anyone’s listening and they want to sponsor the WP Innovator podcast, then,
Bob Dunn:
yeah, I’ve had a few. In fact, my whole model right now is I’m not actually offering any services anymore. So my income is coming through sponsorship and reviews on my blog and, and it’s something I’ve been worked, yeah, I’ve worked on it for several years. Kind of this whole brand thing going in this certain direction. And it does. Getting sponsorships is not easy even if you’re known and stuff. I mean, everybody’s being hit up for dollars everywhere. But it does help to take the time to build lots of relationships and a lot of sticky relationships that are, you know, you’ve had for a while and yeah, it’s just going to, out there and doing it is, it’s tough.
Bob Dunn:
And I’ve had several people come to me asking, oh, how are you doing this? You know, how are you getting this? And it’s like, well, let me take you back a few years back when
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I had a full head of hair.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, right, exactly.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Hey, actually, so this is a question I’ve started asking a lot of bold guys now. Do you, I mean, you’re not funny bald. You’ve actually got quite a bit of good hair on the side there. So from the picture that I last saw. But do you have a dream? You’ve got A full head of hair.
Bob Dunn:
You know, I don’t.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m the only person who does this. I did it again two days ago. I was dreaming that I looked in the mirror and I had loads of hair and I was combing it.
Bob Dunn:
I. I think back sometimes why. In fact I’m letting my hair grow out the sides and stuff. Just trying to look a little bit more beach like since we’re living on the beach now and may end up even doing a ponytail. One of those old guys with a ponytail. Never know.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That would be amazing.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And it will hopefully be bleach blonde as well because of the sun.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Wander around with kind of no shoes on, just you know, bare feet, cool hippie. That would be amazing. That could be the evolution of the Bob WP brand, you know, couldn’t it? You know, kind of like is it California you’re based in now? Is it that? Or are you.
Bob Dunn:
Actually we’re in Washington state. Oh yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Oh okay.
Bob Dunn:
So there isn’t quite as much sun.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I mean there’s a bit colder.
Bob Dunn:
We’re in a cooler climate on the coast and stuff.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But.
Bob Dunn:
But loving it. And yeah, it’s. I’m. I can be a beach bum. Probably my hair will stay the same color except the. I know it’ll eventually change whether I want it or not. So.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Well, I’m already, I’m 33 and I’m already getting silvers. I’m calling them silver, not white. They’re silver.
Bob Dunn:
Okay.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So there are two big questions that I’d love to ask you because you are the man who knows. And the first one is is there two or three WooCommerce plugins that you would recommend people check out and why they are useful?
Bob Dunn:
Yeah. It’s interesting because I was just renewing one of them today. One of them I love is WooCommerce. One of their extensions is a product add ons and I’ve used it a ton. In fact it’s probably. I have a post on it. It’s probably one of my biggest affiliate makers actually that particular plugin because you’re able to just get. You’re able to easily add on extra costs.
Bob Dunn:
So you know, if you want to add on a. Oh, gonna buy this. And for $50 you can get this or you can get real creative with it. That’s one that I myself, I love it. Name again, Sorry, it’s the. It’s extension WooCommerce product add ons.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Product Add ons. I know the one.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah. And woocount Commerce tabs that’s another one. I think it’s. I don’t know how many people actually use it, but it allows you on your product page to customize the detail, the product detail tab at the bottom or, you know, however your theme shows it. And it also lets you add other tabs there. And not that you want to, you know, put a bunch of tabs there to take away attention from your product. But I’ve used it a lot because I can put FAQs down there. I can put, Here’s a list of, you know, past sponsors.
Bob Dunn:
Whatever product I’m selling, I can customize that and they can actually put a form down there. If I want somebody to fill out a form, they can come back and pay or whatever. It’s real flexible. Everything for me is all about doing it very easily without having to code. It’s what I can drop in there and stuff. So those are kind of the two that I personally have used a lot. And I’ve. I’ve recommended to people.
Bob Dunn:
I’ve also, I use their booking quite a bit, the WooCommerce bookings. And that one’s been interesting because I’ve initially used it for booking. I mean, you think of, okay, you have a coaching business or whatever. And I did it for online booking and it was, it was great. But as I got out of that, then I decided, how can I use this? You know, I have it here. And I keep thinking now, for example, if somebody gets a review with me, a sponsored review on my blog, I’m using it for them to pick the date that they want to review, what available dates that they can have a publish on the blog. So it’s one of those extensions that you can, you think, okay, it’s just for hotels, it’s for maybe restaurant booking, whatever, or coaching or whatever. But you might be able to find other creative ways to use it.
Bob Dunn:
And those are, those are three of them that I’ve used a lot and I’ve used for quite a long time. And I really like them. Of course, there’s the memberships and subscriptions. If you’re going that route, you can’t go wrong with those two as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, definitely agree there as well. So that’s the great thing about WooCommerce and obviously the plugins that are available because they can be repurposed for different things. And where you said being able to do things with the least or zero amount of code, that is actually something I really empathize with as well. Even as a developer, I’ll enjoy using things like The Beaver Builder plugin, etc. That allows me to rapidly start to lay out pages, etc. Because that’s saving lots and lots of time. So I can still add all the value to the client, giving them a site they want to. But at the same time I’m reducing all the extra workload and stress and hassle of trying to deal with lines and lines and lines of code.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So that’s something that I think you and me really resonate on. Funny I should say that, because my whole business is all about coding WordPress.
Bob Dunn:
You like the easy way occasionally, right?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Exactly. So I still do that. That’s like my bread and butter. But I do end up helping people out with their websites, so I’m instantly on. I’m not going to do any code at that point. This is Beaver Builder, baby. And then I’ll use WooCommerce as well. I’m going to second the memberships so that if you combine memberships and subscriptions, they’re actually two different plugins.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
There’s the subscription payment module for WooCommerce and then there’s also the membership module as well for WooCommerce. And them two together are extremely powerful. And I’ve helped quite a few businesses implement WooCommerce or membership sites, even integrated with say, Buddy Press as well, where they’ve got a whole private social media community going on as well. And those two plugins together for WooCommerce are amazingly powerful. You know, you set up the memberships, you can set up multiple types of membership level, you can give people the option to upgrade at any point and it’ll even kind of work out. If you upgrade halfway through a subscription, it’ll kind of do all this clever math that will then work out that you pay kind of your top up to get upgraded, but not charge you the full amount because you’ve already paid. So it’s just, I mean, I don’t know how to even begin to do the math for that.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And they’ve worked really hard to create, to create such amazing add ons for WooCommerce. And obviously on things like CodeCanyon, there are a whole stash on there. But do be careful, I guess to people who are listening on what you do buy on CodeCanyon, I think you’ve got a plugin, sorry, you’ve got a post on picking plugins or themes and I remember reading that a few months ago and you were saying go and check out the demos, go check out the reviews, etc. Before you do go and buy some of those things.
Bob Dunn:
Things.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But if you’re buying stuff from WooCommerce Direct, you know, that’s with themes.com you’re pretty safe, I think. And their support. Yeah, in my experience has been pretty damn good.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve been. And I think another thing that with that membership, what I really love about that plugin is how it integrates into your online store, your WooCommerce store, so you can offer your members, you know, discounts on certain products and you could even tempt non members when they go to a product that, hey, if you join, you know, you’ll get this product for this much instead of. So that’s a really slick integration. I think it’s something that’s kind of brought another level to WooCommerce and memberships that other membership sites or membership plugins didn’t do.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m going to pretend I knew that. That sounds so cool.
Bob Dunn:
I didn’t know I did that. Yeah. And I think that’s really the. Because I get a lot of people asking, well, why should I get this? And there are a lot of other good membership plugins out there. And I said, if you really want to integrate it into your products, I said that it does it so easily. And especially that fact that you can kind of, you know, tease people, hey, you can get this deal and you can even have products that are only available to your members. So when people see those products, they go, shoot, you know, I’d like to have that. Maybe I should join.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So that is so cool. Well, I’m going to have a chat with a couple of my clients who’ve used we’ve Woocommerce now and just mention that little old factor that you just dropped there, you know, because they do sell products separately as well as having their membership online. So that’s. That’s worth considering. I never do that.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, yeah, it’s good.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, well, they are, they are very feature rich. So, you know, I can’t be blamed for not knowing everything.
Bob Dunn:
No, no.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Obviously I’m gonna have to listen to do the Woo podcast more so that I can learn all this stuff.
Bob Dunn:
I know. And retaining all this information. I was telling somebody the other day, I can’t tell you how many times I go back and watch some of my own videos because I can’t remember how to do something.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Hey, you’re teaching yourself from the past. You’re teaching your future. It’s like time travel.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Mind blown. That’s awesome. Well, thanks for doing that. Put you on the spot, but I knew you’d be able to lift you off. And yeah, they’re epic. So we’ll get all those links in there as well. So therefore, those WooCommerce sites on we themes.com but I’ll put all the links in for those plugins for people who are listening. And obviously you can find the DoTheWoo podcast and BobWP.com I’ll get them in the show notes.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I really recommend you just subscribe to the podcast, but also subscribe to Bob’s RSS feed and just be notified of what’s coming out because he’s always putting out really fantastic content. So, Bob, what we really love it is when people as wise as you, who have been in business for a few years, you know, because obviously you’re still quite young, is to kind of drop some sort of nice encouraging thing phrase, something that people can do or hold on to, that they can implement in their business or ponder upon that will then inspire them onto the next level. So do you have any pearls of wisdom, sage advice, a famous quote that you love, that you think would help encourage all of the web designers and entrepreneurs listening in today?
Bob Dunn:
I think what’s been best for me and I tell people a couple things is one is stay flexible. Just keep an open mind to things. Don’t get trapped into thinking, I’ve always done it this way, I can’t do it this way now, especially with technology, all that stuff. And we touched on that a little bit earlier. But yeah, stay flexible in your business and, you know, move with the times. And I think the other thing is that, and this is kind of WordPress specific is get out of the WordPress bubble, go to other conferences, go to other networking events online, whatever. Don’t get so focused and trapped. It’s a great community.
Bob Dunn:
I love the people there’s. But sometimes I think people get so wrapped up in it that they lose touch beyond WordPress a little bit. And it’s good to have that constant connection. I’ve, you know, over the years I’ve done my share of networking and conferences and all that good stuff. And sometimes I went to things that were totally, you know, random. It’s like, well, should I really go to that? It doesn’t have a lot to do with my business, but the people I meet there, it’s always amazing, the connection. So just keep an open mind when you’re talking to people and don’t think, oh, you don’t use WordPress. There’s no way we can connect and help each other or something like that.
Bob Dunn:
Or like I said, don’t just go all to Word Camps. Find some other conferences and some other networking that will get you out there meeting new people as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. In fact, confession time. I’ve actually never been to a wordcast camp.
Bob Dunn:
Oh. Oh, okay.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It feels so good to finally admit it.
Bob Dunn:
I don’t go to them near as often as I used to. Stuff. But yeah, hey, that’s fine with that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’ve been to, you know, either arranged or been to some local meetups, but I’ve never actually had the privilege of going to a WordCamp. But I’ll echo that. I do agree. Actually going to some conferences that are about, you know, media. I’m going to a podcasting conference this weekend. It’s the New Media Conference Europe. And, you know, there’s no focus on WordPress, but it’s connecting with tons and tons of people who are into online marketing and creating online content, etc. So there’s definitely synergy there.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So I’m excited about that. And that is such good advice because we do, don’t we? We get like, trapped in our niche, into our own little bubble, et cetera. Like into our Genesis bubble. Back in the days when I was a big. Well, I’m still. I like Genesis framework, et cetera. You’re all kind of in that bubble and you don’t talk to anyone else and you realize you’re actually talking to your peers. You’re not actually connecting necessarily with people that, that you can help more and do business with eventually or all that sort of stuff as well.
Bob Dunn:
Awesome.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So, Bob, we know your website addresses. Could you let us know how else we can connect with you socially, et cetera, and then we’ll give you a high five and kick you off the show.
Bob Dunn:
All right, well, I’m on Twitter @bobwp and basically I always used to just tell people at the beginning of a conference, I’d put up a slide and say, you want to get a hold of me, Google WobWP. You’ll pretty much find me everywhere, here and there and stuff. So I’m on YouTube. I got my channel there. I’m just about everywhere you can think of. So, yeah, just look for BobWP and you’ll find me at the end of the road there.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And it’s true. I’ve just googled BobWP and there are 417 results of videos. And you are making up literally you.
Bob Dunn:
Yes.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You own the front page of Google for Bob.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah. And it’s not And. And it’s not pronounced. I once was in a government office and the guy said, oh, so you work for Bob? Whoop. And I thought, I’m not even going to try to explain that one. I said, yes, I do, Sir.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yes, brilliant. BobWhip. So what I’ll do is I’m going to use that. You know that website. Let me google that for you. Have you seen that? I’m going to send you a link. Oh, I’m going to put that in the show notes. Basically, there’s this website that’s called Let me Google that for you.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And when someone asks you a question, I do it with my friends a lot and they’ll be like, hey, how do I do this? And it’s like, that’s the sort of question they could have just put into Google, yet they’ve asked me. This app allows you to just Type in the WordPress search and then send the link to your friend. And then when your friend clicks on it, it sends them to copy of Google and then it moves the mouse to the Google search and then it starts typing in their question and then it hits search and then it reloads the page with the actual Google results.
Bob Dunn:
I gotta see that one.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So I’ll send you it. It’s just really funny to send. You know when someone asks you one of those really obvious questions and you’re like, oh my, Gideon, why didn’t you not just Google it? So it’s funny. So I might do that with yours. Just do the. Let me google that for you. Type in BobWP and put it in the show notes as well, just to show people all the way down. Maybe you should get into SEO as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s pretty impressive.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah,
Lee Matthew Jackson:
mate, thank you so much for your time. You are a legend. I appreciate it. I really appreciate it.
Bob Dunn:
Yeah, and I appreciate you having me on here, Lee, thanks much.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Bless you. I know it was definitely all mine. You have an awesome day and go and enjoy the beach.
Bob Dunn:
All right, cheers guys.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Take care of yourself.
Bob Dunn:
Bye bye.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And there you have it. The end of episode 31. So next week we have got obviously episode 32 with Mike Killen. Yeah, that’s Mike Killen. He is the guy behind sell your services.co.uk he is also somebody who works with Troy Dean. That’s pretty exciting. I’m looking forward to this one. Hey, I’ve already heard it because I was a part of it, but trust me, it’s a fantastic episode.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And we’re talking about sales funnels. Seriously, what this guy doesn’t know. Well, hey, look forward to that. That’s episode 32 next Monday. Thanks for listening again. If you are not in the Facebook group, come join us. That’s leejacksondev.com group. It’ll redirect you.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It’s private. It’s fun. Looking forward to seeing you there. And until then, keep innovating.
