59 - The Kim Catchup (Part Two)

Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.

Verbatim text

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Welcome to WP Innovator Podcast and design agencies exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now your host, Lee Jackson. Hi, and welcome to episode number 59 of the WP Innovator podcast. This is a continuation of the really long but brilliant and fantastic and wonderful interview with Kim Doyle. You’ll know that Kim is a good friend of mine. She’s a mentor. She’s someone I really look up to and follow. She is the runner, the owner, whatever you want to call it, of the WP Chick podcast.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So go check that out on the wpchick.com she is pretty cool. Now, if you’ve not heard the first episode of this, then I suggest you go back and listen to 58 FIRST before continuing into this episode, where she then continues to unpack more of her idea about the lead, the lead generation, the competition, etc. So sit back, relax, enjoy the interview, and we’ll see you at the other side. So you mentioned with this new product that you’re. You’re building, that you were. Well, I think I understood you’re moving away from not doing a WordPress plugin necessarily. This would be a web app. How would that work with other people’s websites? I’m just struggling to try and picture that.

Kim Doyal:
So we will have a plugin for people that don’t want to copy and paste code. So that’s it then. Obviously, part of the knowledge base and documentation will be, here’s how to add it to wix, here’s how to add it to Squarespace, here’s how to add it to an HTML site. So it’ll just be a script.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Perfect. I like the idea as well. If people have got to integrate with Zapier as well, again, that’s just beyond people’s skillset, isn’t it? I think what you’re trying to meet that market, aren’t you, where people just need to be able to do one simple thing. Hey, you know, you can paste this code into this part of WordPress or this part of Wix. Job done. I like that. Now, you mentioned you were doing something with Neil Patel. You got to tell us this story.

Kim Doyal:
Oh, well, I’m not actually doing anything with him, but I totally stole from him.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Tell us how you stole from Neil Patel. And to be honest, it’s not stealing.

Kim Doyal:
Isn’t it?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Standing on the shoulders of giants. Isn’t that what we call it?

Kim Doyal:
Amen. I modeled. That was working very well.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Modeling. There you go. Keep going. How have you modeled, Neil?

Kim Doyal:
So it’s. And it was funny because this all came partly through When I was looking at doing quizzes for leads, right. Because at some point I love the ebook just as much as the next person. But like when I did my new opt in, when I put the new theme on my site, I was like part of, I went back to fundamentals and then I just did an infographic, but I did an audio. Right. Which makes sense with the podcast, like listen the audio. We’re going to start connecting early on. I’m going to get you on the podcast.

Kim Doyal:
So I. Because I love audio too. So. But when I was looking, there was a tool that, a quiz tool that he had done a case study on and he was talking about how the quizzes had worked for this brand. It’s his nutrition secrets. He had done a niche site and of course he created content and SEO and all that stuff around it, talking about what worked. So and I think it is just niche, secret or not niche. I’m sorry, nutritionsecrets.com and so if you look at any of Neil’s sites, the dude is not shy about lead generation.

Kim Doyal:
On a single blog post on Neil Patel or Quicksprout, you’re going to get like five or six ways to opt in.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, I noticed that, literally. And you scroll down and something else pops up. You’re like, man, you really want my email address. Okay, here you go.

Kim Doyal:
Absolutely. It’s a smidge obnoxious, but what I loved on it was nutrition secrets. And it looks almost identical but is the top of every internal page, which is primo real estate. Right under the logo, under the nav, it’s take the quiz. So I did that. And the top of every internal page on my site is lead generation. So the content starts a little bit below it and it has totally driven my leads up. And it’s funny because there’s so many pieces that come into this, right? Which is also where with lead surveys, I’m going to teach and educate the whole time.

Kim Doyal:
I love content upgrades, which again, coschedule does really well. But for Neil Patel and I had had a welcome mat through AppSumo and I just didn’t put on the new theme. I was like, well, let’s just see. And it hasn’t hurt. Initially when I put the welcome mat, it totally did great. And then I thought, okay, let’s start transitioning with the whole Google not wanting pop ups on mobile or whatever. And I think you’re going to be okay on desktop. But I just hadn’t gotten around to adding any sort of pop up.

Kim Doyal:
I haven’t done Any exit pop ups. And then there’s a whole lead gen content upgrade strategy that I’m tying into this whole re queue with co schedule. So I said that funny co schedule. So anything that I have put into re queue, I’m going to first go and make sure there is a content upgrade for Legion. But so I took that from Neil and holy moly, it’s clean, it’s simple. And drove up my leads immediately.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
No way.

Kim Doyal:
So again, there’s those modeling things and yeah, I know it’s like, okay, yeah, but that’s like having to code into a new site. But if you’re going to do a new theme, my goal is lead generation. So if I’m emailing, I need leads to email, right? I need people to build that relationship with. And you know, so I just am like, well, if it works for him and people love him and I’m digging more into most of my. It’s rare to have a post for me that’s less than like 1500 words and even my daily emails. That’s why I started posting those as blog posts. And I specifically asked Rebecca Gill, SEO, right, for Web Savvy Marketing. And I just said, she said, absolutely.

Kim Doyal:
She said, don’t worry about the SEO, it’s content, put it up on your site. And I was like, okay, cool. Because I just, I copied Ben. See, so it’s like I’m looking at these things and what I loved about Ben’s model and all that. Again, it’s simple, it’s consistent. And so I know it sounds like I probably have 52,000 things going on, but they all support each other, I guess, is a better way to look at it.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think what’s important to say is you actually have a strategy. You’ve got a strategy, you’re going back to fundamentals, you have a very clear plan on what you’re modeling. People who, you know are doing it right and are being successful. Your goal is obviously to be away from service work, which sounds like you’ve already achieved and you’re, you’re pushing on with that, you know, and you are focused on content. That’s, that’s all you’re doing. I think the mistake I’ve made in the past is trying to do so many different things, you know, you know, doing the podcast, but also being out on the road networking and also trying to think of the next cool business idea over there, you know, and getting my finger in too many pies until the point where I’m actually doing no good anywhere. I’m Just doing stuff everywhere. That’s why your email kind of resonated with me.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think you talked a couple of emails ago about dropping a whole load of stuff and just going back to basics, going the fundamental, doing the fundamentals, doing them right, outsourcing the crap you don’t need to do or don’t enjoy doing, etc. And, you know, being really clear about what it is you want to do, what it is you want to achieve, and go for that. So everything you’ve told me so far, although there is a lot of stuff you’ve told me so far, it all seems to resonate around your central goal.

Kim Doyal:
Can I tell you what I would do if I were you?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Have a nap.

Kim Doyal:
Well, you’re a natural at podcasting. And I think that I would focus on repurposing that content to the upteenth degree. I would look at what, you know, like Carrie Dills had done. I don’t know if you saw it. And I was like, this is so brilliant. But she took, you know, after her first. I think she was calling him Seasons at the time, but she compiled an ebook and offered sponsor like advertising in the ebook and whatnot. But I think, Lee, with the frequency, with your passion for podcasting, I think there has to be a easy way that you can pull more out of your podcast and repurpose that content as opposed to constantly reinventing the wheel.

Kim Doyal:
Because again, that’s why I do this email that I’m going to. If it’s. If. If I want to put on the site, I do. And I mean, there was one day, one week where I published five days in a row. I was like, that was because it was a podcast, a post, and then three emails. But I think with your podcast, there’s gotta be great ways to repurpose that to then, you know, whether it’s. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but.

Kim Doyal:
Cause you’re. You’re active on Facebook, you’re active in different groups. But my guess is you could take snippets from your podcast and put those. As many posts you could take, you know, quotes. I saw this at Pat Flynn did this. I’m like, this is brilliant. And what we were talking about. Curtis McHale, right? I’m like, I transcribed the podcast.

Kim Doyal:
Do you. Have you heard of Trent? Trent.trent.com. holy moly. I love this tool because.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
How do you spell that? Because your accent sounds like you’re saying T R E N T. I’m saying

Kim Doyal:
T R I N T dot com. Okay? But, but trint, you upload the audio and within an hour it’s transcribed. And obviously there’s some typos and stuff. But what’s cool is you go in and you can put you. You put the speaker’s names in and you literally, wherever you put your cursor, you hit play. And so you can hear it. I mean, it is so easy to use. And it’s.

Kim Doyal:
I want to say I pay maybe 40 bucks a month for five or six hours.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’ve been paying so much more than this on Rev.com I know, because you

Kim Doyal:
send it out, right? And so with this. But so, like, what I was thinking was, okay, so Curtis, we had a really. I just. He’s one of my. I have a lot of favorite people, you included. He’s one of my new favorites. And, you know, just. It was.

Kim Doyal:
He’s so chill, but he’s really. He’s got really clear boundaries. But he had some funny things he said, and I’m like, all right, so to promote that podcast, let’s take a couple Curtis quotes besides a tweet and a post, and make some memes. Let’s share them. That. Right. So if I were you, Lee, I would. I would focus on optimizing and repurposing and making the podcast work on an even greater scale for you than it is.

Kim Doyal:
Like, there’s your content goldmine to me.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, I’m going to put it out there, people. I think people may think I actually make money from this podcast. I actually make pretty much zero from the podcast. I get opportunities to then do service work, which is great, obviously. So I make money that way through the opportunities and the relationships that I’m building. But I’m actually, so far, have just been doing this podcast just for the plain fact that I absolutely love doing it and love sharing information. But as I’ve interviewed, you know, so many people and listened to yourself as well, I’m thinking, oh, my gosh, there is so much I could be doing to, you know, to obviously help other people generate revenue at the same time as well, which is cool. It doesn’t matter if I’m generating revenue as well as helping people at the same time.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So, you know, I gotta admit, I probably made out of any affiliate revenue, etcetera, about $300 in an entire year through the podcast. And I’ve done nothing to actively market it. So that’s. That’s quite, I imagine, quite a shock to people.

Kim Doyal:
It. Well, it probably is. But you know what? Honestly, Lee, like, when I started my podcast, it was solely for the purpose of having more fun in my business. And that’s where. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it. It’s on my YouTube channel. But I did this manifesto and it came from a really frustrated, annoying conversation. Not, it wasn’t annoying with my friend, but I was annoyed with, like, that’s it.

Kim Doyal:
If it’s not fun, I’m not doing it. That’s the opening line to that because I just did a PowerPoint and put it to music. It’s my own manifesto. And so that was why I started the podcast. I wanted to have more fun. And I will always tell, yes, there are tangibles that you can relate to the podcast, but the intangible sort of indirect ways that you can profit and gain from it. But I think because it’s a place you shine. And so like, one of the things so you do, you work with local clients and you’ve gotten business that way.

Kim Doyal:
But, you know, in looking at if you had, say, 10 interviews with people that their content, their model, whatever was directly related to how a local business can take it up a notch. Like, well, there’s a book, right? So there’s different ways to do that. And so do you do solo shows or are you strictly interviews?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
No, in fact, I’ve really ramped up the solo shows. So I’ve done.

Kim Doyal:
Okay, Lies all. Thanks for listening. Oh, I just threw myself under the bus. But, but, so, but even that, you know, it’s funny. So think about that and something that I’m going to test and I will, I will share this journey as well. Did you ever see that? This is. I’m such a swag buyer. But I ordered.

Kim Doyal:
I have flash drives with my logo. They’re like light wood bamboo flash drives with my logo on them.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
They sound.

Kim Doyal:
And. And so I have my. Okay, I do. You will get one. But it was a friend who had said, I was talking to him and it’s like, I’ve always wanted to test a free plus shipping model because what happens when you actually sell something to somebody? You get a credit card. You know, they’re. Now you’re building a list of customers, not just subscribers, right? And I was like, well, what would I do? And he’s like, get a flash drive, put audio content. I was like, oh, that’s awesome.

Kim Doyal:
So that’s gonna come out in January. I’m gonna do a free plus shipping on the flash drive, and it’s all gonna be audio content. And I’m gonna look at. I might. I haven’t decided. But I may pull the most downloaded episodes ever. I may pull my top five solo shows and then of course there will be new content as well and maybe, you know, a PDF or something on it, but it’ll be a free plus shipping offer. And because again, anybody who listens to the podcast like they’re my tribe, they’re my people because they understand Kim speak, I talk in circles.

Kim Doyal:
They under my self deprecating hum. But like, there’s somebody I’d probably want to hang out with, right? So, you know, there’s all kinds of ways to do this. But again, just coming back to you, Lee, is you shine with the podcasting and I think there’s opportunities for you to get it working better for you.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, guys, let’s see what happens in 2017. And Kim, you are very generous in your time. You’re always giving me great advice and

Kim Doyal:
I do appreciate it unsolicited. Sorry, but I just

Lee Matthew Jackson:
so often I think you’ve, I’ve just like given you a call and then you’ve given me an hour of free advice and I just sit and listen. In fact, this is probably the quietest I’ve been in any podcast. But it’s just because I know I have to listen very carefully to you because you do talk in circles, which actually I don’t know if you could hear me giggling sometimes because you go off on so many different tangents. But you eventually come round to the original point and the tangents were worth it.

Kim Doyal:
Thank you.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Because they kind of helped illustrate the original point. The only funny part was when you forgot where you were going with it. And that’s probably, oh my God.

Kim Doyal:
You know what my daughter said to me once she goes, you know, she’s all, it’s gonna be really hard to understand you when you get old. Like we’re not gonna be able to understand you. And the funny thing is she talks like me now too. I’m like, what’s up? You’re 19, so how are we doing there?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
No way. That’s nuts. You mentioned the solo episodes, by the way, so I’ve actually stepped up the solo episodes and I absolutely love doing them. I actually find them easier than inter because I kind of feel like I have to prepare less because I just write down like five bullets and then hit record. How do you find you’re doing with the solo shows?

Kim Doyal:
I still stick to every other one and it’s probably I want to throw in those Kim snippets like we were talking about where I do like a quick 15 minute one. Because for me, I actually write the entire post out first. So it’s. I don’t know, maybe it’s too much Kim therapy on the air, but I write it out so that because of the way I speak that I don’t totally lose my train of thought because I think that I would just ramble unless it’s a 15 minute thing, like I did. And I’ve done a couple in the car. One of my Kim snippets. And I was so tired of the do the effing work, right? That, that just that please stop screaming at me. Like, I work hard.

Kim Doyal:
And when I work with intention and trust and do things that make my heart happy, I can accomplish 10 times more than anybody who’s got to get pumped and motivated. And so it was kind of coming to that place, but I did a quick episode in the car. Always say it. I’m like, all right, guys, I’m in the car and I just wanted to talk to you about this. And I did a little snippet, right? So the solo shows, I still write them out ahead of time. I write the full post and then I just need to go back and maybe add links or whatever. If I remember, like you said, actually had someone contact me. She said, you know, I do this for Carrie Dills.

Kim Doyal:
You want me to go ahead and pull the links out? And I just. I forgot to get back to her or something. But I just. I know. So now I keep a notepad open and I actually should ask Carrie, who is that again? But. But I just. I’m trying to streamline things. I want less people that I need to be responsible to in my life.

Kim Doyal:
And I don’t know if it’s because I’ve raised two kids by myself, but, like, yeah, I need less people that I need to worry about.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yes, it is stressful, you know, all these people around, you know, trying to. Trying to manage multiple teams, etc. I’m thinking of. For me and the things I do well, no doubt.

Kim Doyal:
And I know you’re going in some big directions next year. And so, you know, I think it’s all. It’s life experience and where you’re at and what you’ve done and I mean, I’ve owned a physical retail store. I did. I was in management for so long. I think that’s part of it now that I’m like, no new. I’m coming first.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I do remember that now. Speaking of Hustle and I’m probably going to have to split this episode into two. I Feel like it’s like part one and part two or something like that. I might do that. Just so people assume this easily in the car because we’ve gone way over the 40 minutes and that’s fine because I’m having fun and I think you are too. Oh yeah, but you said the magic word, Hustle. And I’ve seen you and our good friend John who was on episode, I don’t know, maybe 2, 3, 4 or 5, like really early on. I’d love to have him back on the show as well.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
But you guys have partnered. I’ve seen this shocking phrase out there calling called F the Hustle. And you’ve launched a new website and a podcast, dammit, because you just can’t resist. Called Hustle Free. Can you tell us kind of why, how and what? There you go.

Kim Doyal:
I will. And this is another great lesson for the listeners to just stay the course because John and I have tried to collaborate multiple times. And when I say tried, it’s just John is still in his full time gig, which I do see 2017 him getting out of. But we just. John’s one of those people just like you, Lee. You know, you’re like, I just want to hang out with you. Like, we’re like, I love you already. Like, we’re friends.

Kim Doyal:
And you know, the second you connected. So we connected from the first time. He was one of my first 10 episodes also. And so we’re on Skype, like I’m all, do you actually work, dude when you’re at work? Because like we chat on and off all day. But so we had, we had done a sell with WordPress course where it was on, you know, how to WooCommerce EDD gum. We had like five different platforms. But what I’ve learned too, and I will come back, but we launched it and instead of stepping back and saying, okay, what worked, what didn’t, let’s how do we iterate for next time? It was like, oh, that didn’t work very well and kind of let it go. Part of it, I think is that it didn’t excite us a ton.

Kim Doyal:
So we had tried that. We have tried, you know, like I posted webinars for him. We had looked at doing, you know, other projects or merging agencies or like I had the outsourcing and then, hey, do you want to take this or, you know, we’d tried a handful of stuff. We had tried another podcast with the third person and that was just random. That was, that was just, that was odd. We’ll leave it at that. Not with John. It was just odd.

Kim Doyal:
But. But so, you know, we had stepped into this stuff, and something hit me. It was August, and again, this obsession with sharing the journey. Like, whenever people get stuck with content, I’m like, just talk about what you’re doing and just be open and you can again, baby step your way through that. So it just hit me. I’m like, what if we did and picked a topic and said, okay, you know what? For an entire month, we’re gonna go step one, step two, step three, step four for memberships or recurring revenue or podcasting or email marketing or whatever. And it was originally called Freedom Papers, and which isn’t clear because the goal, of course, then was to what we did. And I’ll tell you, it was a ton of work.

Kim Doyal:
I have never gotten so much accomplished. Like, when an idea grabs a hold of you, you can get a lot done. So we went from, like, idea to launch within, like, three weeks, and we had had eight episodes recorded. But then we were going to. I was taking the transcripts, so I’d have. We. And we had someone actually doing them for us, transcribed it. And then I would go through 20 pages of transcripts and pull out nuggets and how can we go deeper into this topic and do a physical newsletter? And it was just like, okay, we knew something was there.

Kim Doyal:
Here’s where we screwed up. 1. We didn’t validate the newsletter concept with anybody other than I love getting Ben’s newsletter. And I thought, this is great. And so nobody bought it was like crickets, right? But we still knew we were onto something. And the point with the Hustle free. Then we shifted it because we came up with this F the Hustle hashtag. We have ordered mugs.

Kim Doyal:
Like, I. We shared a snapshot of the mugs, and we had so many. Oh, my God, where can I get that? Oh, my gosh, where can I get that? And the word, it was like F ampersand K. And I’m like, I’m not going to walk around in that T shirt, but I will wear one that says hashtag F the letter F the Hustle. Right? Because it says what it needs to say without looking like a swear word. And so it’s just.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It totally looks like a swear word. Just so you know.

Kim Doyal:
Yeah, it totally does. Right? But then the hashtag, though, doesn’t. Right, the hashtag. You know what we’re saying? But we don’t need to put the word in there. So it just.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m like, no, I presume it was fork. You Know, like a utensil fork.

Kim Doyal:
There you go. Assume away. But anyway, so we just. We both were on this thing. I was. I just felt exhausted. You know, when. When I was in the Mastermind, and it was like everybody wanted six figures a month and all these.

Kim Doyal:
This push, push, push. And then it was like. And don’t get me wrong, I love, you know, what do I want? How do I want to create my life? What do I want that to look like? My screensaver is my Audi Q5 that I will be getting next year. And. But. But beyond that, it’s like, I crave. The quality of my life is outstanding. Like, I could take a nap today.

Kim Doyal:
I can have lunch with friends. I can. I control my time in my life. And. And that is gold to, you know firsthand. Most people do at this stage. And, like, life is short. It’s not promised to anybody.

Kim Doyal:
So I don’t want to be hustling my way through stuff. And the thing is, I know that when I’m pushed to get something done, first of all, I can’t do anything creative from that space. It doesn’t work. And when I take care of myself, whether it’s taking a nap in the afternoon or floating in the pool in the summer, it doesn’t matter. I inevitably produce way better work in half the amount of time. And so I just thought, you know, again, God bless Gary Vee, but his constant barrage of working harder and doing more work. And there was a friend that I’d connected with in the Mastermind, Garrett J. White, who’s got this warrior movement, and it’s totally just to men, but he’s like, do the effing work all the time.

Kim Doyal:
I had to unfollow him. He’s a wonderful guy. But I was like, garrett, stop screaming at me. I’m just. I’m done with that message. And I am a believer. I’m a spiritual person, and I believe that whatever we put out kind of comes back to us. And so I don’t like that aggro sort of, that energy.

Kim Doyal:
And I used to be able to. I’m not swear again, Lee, but piss myself off to motivation. I’d get so frustrated, and I’d be like, that is it. And it doesn’t work. It’s not sustainable. And so that’s totally where F the Hustle came from, that we wanted to let people know it’s okay, that it takes as long as it takes. Just do it and do it right instead of feeling this pressure. I can’t tell you how many Things, Lee, that I have launched or done or thought.

Kim Doyal:
And there was. There was something in my gut, and I don’t know about you, but have you ever felt that? And you’re like, it’s kind of like taking a client you know, you shouldn’t take, and you do it anyways. And inevitably you knew. You knew from the get go it wasn’t a project or a person you should have worked with, but you do it. And so it’s. If you have the space and you allow for the natural evolution and organic processes, show up and do the work. But don’t beat yourself into being some six figure earner, because that’s what the Internet’s telling you need to do.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And it’s a refreshing message that I’m hearing from you guys because I am someone who, if I have to do something, I’ll do it, but I’ll do it in the absolute last second possible because I will procrastinate right up until the very moment where I’m like, okay, there is now no point of return. I have to do this thing. I’ll never do it to the best of my ability. I’ll hate doing it. I’ll resent whoever I’m doing something for. And I have totally done that thing where I have had someone come to me. They’re not my target audience or there’s something about them that is not right. You know, that client relationship, the dynamic is not there.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
My gut says, don’t work for these guys, but my psyche says, you gotta earn money, right? You gotta do the work, you know, because that’s what the Internet tells you all the time. And I gotta admit, you know, in the last year myself, I’ve had to turn off so many people. Like, I love Gary V. As well, and loads of people love him, he says some great things, but I have to not watch him or listen to him much because I frankly don’t think I could. I think if I was Gary V. I would actually be in hospital right now. I don’t know how he has that energy. I’ve got the energy to do what I absolutely.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Maybe that’s what he. He’s doing what he loves. Maybe that’s why he’s got so much energy, you know, And I’m doing what I love with a podcast and I’m doing what I love on specific types of projects. And that’s where I’ve been really trying to put in all my own energy in this last year, particularly. So it’s free to.

Kim Doyal:
No, but I was gonna say Gary Vee has said that. That don’t try to be him. Right. And. But. But I agree with you. There’s a guy I will have to send you the link to who he called himself very g. Really.

Kim Doyal:
I think his name is Ian Stanley. He’s an Australian guy. And then. Have you ever seen Tai Lopez?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
No, I feel like I probably have. I recognize people’s faces. I’m terrible with names.

Kim Doyal:
It’s okay. And again, he’s another one of these sort of big Internet. And so he does this sort of crib style in my Beverly Hills home. And so Ian Stanley did a lie topaz and he does these spoofs. And I adore it. I just adore it because again, I. Gary, I think I don’t know if I ever told you story. Ran into him in an elevator in Las Vegas when I was there for one of my masterminds.

Kim Doyal:
And I had gone upstairs to shoot a testimonial video. And then I’m. But I left my phone in the room, so the elevator doors open and it was just him and it was just me. And I’m all, Gary Vee. Like, I got like an excited little kid, you know, because I have his books and stuff, and I’m like, oh, my God, I forgot. He’s like, let me take the selfie. So he took the selfie and he emailed it to me. I think he’s a great guy.

Kim Doyal:
And. But Gary does what works for Gary, and that’s also in his messaging. But. But if you’re susceptible to those dumb little voices in our head that we all have, if you’re susceptible to that, I’m not doing enough. I’m not doing enough. I’m not doing enough. Then shut those people off. You.

Kim Doyal:
You get to choose what shows up in your feed. Right?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Exactly. And one of the lessons I think I’ve learned as well is, you know, I’ve always thought I have to keep earning more money, and I’m doing that quite a lot of the times in the wrong way. So I’ll be taking on these extra jobs that I’m not necessarily enjoying because I think I have to get in more money, but I don’t even know what I’m doing it for half the time. You know, I’m forgetting. I’ll forget. My why. My why is to spend more time with the family, you know, but by then taking on more work so I can spend more time with the family is ridiculous because that actually means I spend less time with the family because I’m doing more work you know, so I’ve had to give myself a real. Get a slap across the head.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Especially in the last six months, I’m getting a hell of a lot better at saying no, which is awesome. And I’m working on only very specific things, and I’m happy with the amount of work I’m taking on. And obviously, for me, my goal is to try and generate online revenue as well. I interviewed last week Adam Pricer. It’s all about affiliate marketing. There are ways where I can do what I love, which is podcasting and also creating videos, which I used to do as a kid that I haven’t done for years. Get into YouTube and ad tons and tons of value, and also get paid for that. And also do what you do sometimes and go and float in a pool and spend more time with my family.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s a gazillionaire. Just live. But let me.

Kim Doyal:
Sorry. The thing is, it was. It was a mentor. And I always do my mentor slash therapist, because she has just been such a model for me. And she asked me, she goes, kim, how much is enough? And so I found that I was really doing this drive for six figures a month from. Because of the people I was around. And, you know, it was like, I. Again, I am not.

Kim Doyal:
I took a Learjet, like a private jet. I put in my ticket, which was, I would never do it again. I would never do it again. I don’t regret. Was an interesting experience, but that doesn’t. That doesn’t drive me. And so when she said, how much is enough? I thought, okay, well, I want. I know the lifestyle I want at home.

Kim Doyal:
And like we were saying, like, my goal, a couple years, and my son’s off at college, and it’s like, I’m going to pick somewhere to live that nurtures my soul. I need good Internet and. And I want to be able to get close to family, but I’m like, I want a little more nature. I’m not a huge city person, but so it’s like, how much is enough? I want to be able to travel. I want to be able to do the things I want to do, have the things I want to have, and it’s not. There’s no other thought to it. I know that retirement’s taken care of. I know that I can hop on a plane tomorrow if an opportunity shows up, but really, I want the space in my day, like I said, to nap, to read a book, or, you know, where I was talking about using the things you’ve paid for.

Kim Doyal:
When I start thinking, like, I’m getting giddy. Lee, about 2017, because, wow, Kim, what is your day going to look like when you say, okay, from 10 to 12, I’m going to focus on this app or this course, and I’m going to do my due diligence and I’m going to go through and I’m going to use the things that I pay for, and I’m going to take the time to measure what’s working. And I’m really, you know, not just when I have to, but really to stop and say, okay, I’m going to go read a copy book about copywriting for an hour. So those things that. Because what happens? And there is a window. This is what I’ll say. And I always get this picture of Indiana Jones, and I don’t remember which one it was. You probably will.

Kim Doyal:
But you know where he has to. He’s going to get the chalice. What is it? I can’t remember. But, you know, he has to step off the ledge and then the bridge appears, right?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah.

Kim Doyal:
There is a window here that depending upon, you know, your lifestyle and what you do and whatnot, but you may have to say, I’m gonna just. I’m gonna jump in. And this is something I’ve been building to and building to and building to. And I’ll tell you what, and I know it’s esoteric, but the more you say no to the stuff that doesn’t work for you and you start taking care of, like, what your heart really wants. And because I believe that when I take care of myself, it serves other people, too, I just so show I can show up fully as myself and be present. Right? And so when I start saying no, I mean, money and opportunities show up that I couldn’t have pictured even I’ll get. I mean, closing this house, it’s like I’ve gotten a couple of random checks from the mortgage company. I’m like, well, this was fun.

Kim Doyal:
And so you just. And I’m not. I’m not going to get on to Law of Attraction. But I’m saying businesses and opportunities, you know, you have the space then to say, well, let’s hop on a Skype call. You have, you know, the time to say, well, yeah, I’d love to meet you, or whatever that looks like. But when you’re squeezed, like, you don’t even see those things that land right in your lap.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Guys, if this is the sort of messaging that resonates with you, you’re going to hear a lot of stuff like this and really helpful stuff. As well on hustlefree.net that’s really late.

Kim Doyal:
Yeah, I’m like, talk about circular speak.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Hustlefree.net you will feel edified and you will not feel like you have to work your ass off. Although if you’ve not done any work all week, maybe do a little bit of work. Unless you’re kind of really rich. And then if you’re really rich, send me some money. And also, why this podcast? I’m not really 100% sure, but thank you for listening. We appreciate you.

Kim Doyal:
Feel free to sponsor it.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Feel free? Yes. Feel free to sponsor it. That is actually something on my 202016 goals. One of my goals was to get sponsorship for the podcast. I thought I got to do at least one thing and I did nothing about it. So you got to hold me accountable. I got to get myself some sponsorship sorted out.

Kim Doyal:
Next year I will and I’ll share the processes because I have been doing a little bit of a deep dive into that in terms because I’ve had a few sponsors, but they’ve all come to me. That’s like, hey, Kim, how about you go ask for them? And so putting together in terms of, you know, just a letter and the what I’ll do for somebody and the packages, you know, and whatnot and go from there. And I want to make sure what I would like to do because I was working with SiteLock recently and it was. They would give me the links and where they’d want things to go to. But I’m like, I want to track the links too. So there’s got to be a better way to do it. And so I’m happy to share all that with you.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Awesome. Off air, obviously, because that’s gold dust and I appreciate that. But guys, well, just it may not be interesting. Although, you know, if it works out well, then maybe we’ll share the journey. It sounds fun, but there you go. You know what, Kim, it’s been awesome. I could actually talk to you for like another three hours. To be honest, I probably want to

Kim Doyal:
get off well for the night.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, like I said, this could be a two or a three parter podcast. I think I remember when you first came on, I called it an epic because you are the longest podcast recording I’d ever done. Just because you and me can just, you know, chat the night away. Well, I do kind of throw a couple more questions at you though. So you, you know, we’ve talked about, you know, fuck the hustle. Let’s say it for what it is. We know what it Means, and obviously, you know, not working yourself into the ground, etc. You’ve also talked about kind of doing less of the stuff, as it were, and doing the right stuff just so that people can kind of connect with what they might be overdoing, as it were.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Can you let us know a few things you were doing that were getting in the way of your success, you know, holding on to for whatever reason?

Kim Doyal:
Yeah. First of all, listening to other people.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Okay.

Kim Doyal:
You know, and I know that sounds. I’ll try to give something tangible, too, but. But there’s a lot of noise online. There’s a lot of platforms. There’s a lot of opportunities. There’s a lot of strategies and tactics. But, you know, at the end of the day, it’s. I made a commitment years ago.

Kim Doyal:
I don’t do client work before noon. And, you know, as of 2017, I won’t be doing it. But. Because the thing is, I know that for me to create, I’m way better in the morning. I’m more of a morning person. I can be up at night, but don’t ask me to do anything creative. And so I know I made a commitment. I’m like, that’s it.

Kim Doyal:
And when I interviewed Curtis McHale, you know, he batches his calls. He does calls one day a week. And so I know, like, looking at. We were talking earlier, batching, recording. So I have stopped doing what? I don’t care if every single marketer and guru on the planet is saying to do something, if it doesn’t resonate with me, I’m not doing it.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah.

Kim Doyal:
You know, look, okay, another one, paid traffic. I have. I’ve done Facebook advertising. I. I think it works, but it’s like, here’s the deal. Like, paid ads, even if you get an ad that converts, if it’s not for something you want to be doing or that’s getting you closer to your goal, stop. Just stop. Lead generation is a key.

Kim Doyal:
So I will be testing Facebook lead ads. I’ve not done that. It was always. It was for the strategy session model. But. So it’s like, okay, can you attract, convert, and grow a list of your right tribe? Right. Because again, it doesn’t matter if you’ve got a list of 20,000 people if they’re. If they’re just names and emails, but not the right people.

Kim Doyal:
So. But. But. So one of those things. So I just stopped. Like, if it’s. If it’s not in alignment, like, I did all this travel last year. I did none this year.

Kim Doyal:
I just. It’s been. It’s been a long year for me. But I. So it’s like, look, if it’s not something I’m focusing on right now, I’m not buying it, I’m not attending it, I’m not listening to it. So that’s why I have a tendency to. I hop on the co schedule webinars. It’s about content.

Kim Doyal:
Content is at the core. I always go back to Dan Norris and how he grew WP curve to 7 figures and 18 months with no paid traffic. All content marketing. So for me, it’s stop. You have to unsubscribe that fomo, that fear of missing out. So unsubscribe from the things. Commit to yourself, make yourself the priority. Say, look, I am going to spend three months and I’m going to do this.

Kim Doyal:
I’m going to do this. So many people, they do the peripherals, right? It’s easy, easy to get caught up with. Oh, I’m gonna. This is the name I’m gonna call it. This is my logo, these are my colors. Here’s the website. And it’s all this peripheral stuff. But great example with lead surveys, I’m like, you would not believe the research I’ve been doing and reading and documenting and testing and looking at pricing models and saying, okay, and so now it’s like, I’ve not done software product validation before, but it’s like, Kim, do the work.

Kim Doyal:
Reading startups, look at, look at more validation than you can get that from this, besides a survey or knowing that what I wanted wasn’t out there. So more than anything, I am going, I’m just, I’m removing things that really don’t serve me anymore. And it’s been gold.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Remove things that don’t serve you. That’s a great line. I think things that resonate with me there are. I’ve been actively unsubscribing from things that I don’t even read or detract me. People remember I was like a mega fan of John Lee Dumas. I still think he’s a great guy, but I’ve stopped listening to his podcast. You know, there’s quite a few people that I have actually stopped listening to because it was actually information overload on things that I don’t need to listen to. I’ve started listening to other people.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Obviously, never stop listening to Kim Doyle. WP Chick.

Kim Doyal:
Well, you know what’s interesting is with Hustle Free, it was funny because we were doing. We’re gonna do this deep dive for four episodes in a row. And then John was like, let’s just kind of riff. I’m like, there’s enough of those out there. And we, somebody contacted us and said, that was one of the reasons I kept listening. So why aren’t you going to. So we thought, okay, so we’re still tweaking and that may not be profitable for a year.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I have.

Kim Doyal:
That may not have a monetization model, I should say for a year we’re going to get the content format right. We’re going to shift to seasons. But at the end of the day, I’m right there with you. I’ve actually stopped listening to a lot of podcasts that I listen to because it’s like right now, as an example, I’d love to listen to some great shows on a SaaS model and what they did and how they got it, because it’s. And again, that’s more for me personally. And like, okay, it’s like, I feel like a kindergartner in this space. And so you have to be really protective. You know, your time is the only thing you.

Kim Doyal:
It’s non negotiable.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think it’s about, it’s consuming the right content as well, isn’t it? You’ve just said, you know, you want to look for something about SaaS models, people who have done SaaS things, because that’s what you’re doing. So you’re consuming the right sort of content and also dedicating your time as well to do things that serve you, I. E. Continuing to create the content that you do as well. Because, you know, over the last few years, I have literally filled my brain with so much stuff from so many people and probably only ever using 5% of it all. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s very tempting to think I need to learn more. I’ve got so many courses I’ve never finished.

Kim Doyal:
Who doesn’t, right? And so that’s where it was. There was a freedom in the fundamentals to me because I thought, okay, well, and I keep making this rant against Snapchat. I’m not against it. I just don’t need another platform. I don’t. And so, you know, I have Nathan Chan’s Instagram course that I’ve gotten a few modules through. And it’s like, I see how that could fit in, but literally it’s like, if it, if it doesn’t have to do with content marketing, email marketing or leads conversion, you know, take building assets or maximizing. Like I said, Me doing YouTube is because I’ve got a YouTube channel, I’ve got subscribers, I’ve got videos.

Kim Doyal:
How can I make that work better for me?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, what have you got? How can you make it work better? Just like we’ve talked about WP Innovator. You know, I’ve got something that I love doing that, you know, apparently people like it as well. Get a lot of nice emails. Thank you. You know, how can I make it better? And also how can I help it to serve me as well and as well as serve the people listening rather than trying to go off and do these courses where I can suddenly become an expert in XYZ and make a whole load of money, which I probably won’t because my passion isn’t in it. But I think, oh crap, maybe I have to go and do that.

Kim Doyal:
Can I just have one little quick thing is please, one thing that people have a tendency to like, like I’ve got a friend and we’ll be on Skype kind of throughout the day. And she had been a former coaching client of mine, which is funny. Anybody have a coach becomes like this lifelog friend and. But she is hard on herself about, oh, I went down this rabbit hole. I’m like, yeah, but that’s why we, we do this, right? Like it’s your business. And so when I get to my desk in the morning and I enjoy my coffee, I have certain sites that I go do. I look at stuff, I kind of catch. I give myself.

Kim Doyal:
That’s why this is my business. I like staying on top of stuff. And I’ll look at the articles on Medium and stuff. But I don’t say that I even discipline myself, but I know that give myself an hour to have rabbit hole moments or you know, and I know like by 3ish in the afternoon, I better get off the computer. Whether it’s walking the dogs, whatever I need to do, but I need to re. I just need to move. And so, but give yourself those. That’s part of a business.

Kim Doyal:
Part of growing an online business is saying, I’m going to spend two hours going through this course that I invested in and I’m going to implement one thing, whatever that looks like. But so a lot of people look at those as like luxuries because it’s not quote unquote work. But that’s why we’re in this space, right?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Exactly. This is good. This is very cathartic, very therapeutic for me. You know, this is like an online therapy session being shared with many other people.

Kim Doyal:
You’re getting 13 years of therapy who

Lee Matthew Jackson:
are all listening in on me right now. That’s awesome. You know what? I feel like I should probably wrap this up. It is getting late here and there’s only so many whiskies I can drink before I start not making any sense. I don’t need to. I’ve been secretly pouring little shots of whiskey throughout. I’m on Jim Bean. Just let’s do a commercial here.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Jim Bean is called Red Stag Black cherry liqueur. It’s absolutely gorgeous. And I’m kind of drinking it like lemonade right now, which is.

Kim Doyal:
I will get over there in the next year. So I have a ticket that I was supposed to go to Ireland, but I have a friend in Scotland. Like, I’m gonna come over there. I’m gonna bring you. My sister works for a company called Heaven Hill. Okay, sounds good already. Well, they’re out of Kentucky. They are whiskey distillers.

Kim Doyal:
They’ve got Evan Williams and Larceny and some high end, you know, us whiskeys. So I will bring you a treat. Or when you’re here and I come to see you next year, I will bring you some. Some whiskey, definitely.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s awesome. I think people know we’re planning on doing a stint in Florida next year. So that would be awesome. And any listeners in Florida as well. I’ve put this out in the group, actually. It’d be great to do some meetups when I’m out there as well. So I’ll be doing internal flights and doing a bit of exploring of the US Of A. What? Why not?

Kim Doyal:
Yeah, Well, I can come to east coast too. It’s whatever. I will get to you one way or the other next year.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
No worries. I remember when I was, you know when they say, like, I’m far, I’m far east coast or whatever it is. And then you’ve got West Coast. East Coast. What’s the saying? Hey, you know, I’ve forgotten that. I’ll edit that out. I forgotten the joke.

Kim Doyal:
That’s all right. I’m so. Because I’m a West coast girl, obviously. And so I’m like, I don’t know. West coast is all that matters to me. I’m just kidding.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
There you go. So, Kim, obviously I’ve dropped like commercials throughout for you. You know, I’ve mentioned thewpchick.com I’ve also mentioned Hustle Free and you’ve got your elite surveys IO which will have a landing page on by the time this airs. But how else can people connect with you? Because you are a friendly gal and you pretty much talk to everyone who does connect with you. So how can people have a natter?

Kim Doyal:
Yeah, the website actually put a chat little thing on the website is fun, but most of my, I think outside of my Facebook page, the WP chick, my social profiles are all Kim Doyle. And that’s D L Y A L. But reach out. You know, I email Kim at the WP chick. I love connecting with people. There’s a few people I’m like, let’s Skype after the first of the year. And I just. You don’t know where the relationships and connections are gonna go for go.

Kim Doyal:
Go to. And I just like connecting with good people.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s awesome. And that’s exactly what I did with you for episode three. Which guys, if you want to go and listen, there is amazing value in that as well. And you are awesome. And if it’s an encouragement to anyone, you know, like I did, I also connected with Troy Dean back then, you know, I was petrified of doing so because in my head I’d kind of got, you know, you kind of put people up on a pedestal, don’t you? You’re like, oh, I shouldn’t go contact them, etc. But actually it’s well worth contacting anyone and everyone, you know, reaching out and having a chat, etc. Because me and Kim have become really good friends over this last year. And I wouldn’t.

Kim Doyal:
Well, you know what? I did the same with Troy, like, when I connected with him. And it was like, I love him to pieces too. Of course I love you. And it is. It’s like you just. I don’t know, you absolutely reach out. I’m going to stop my circular speak. Reach out.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Reach out. Guys. Kim, I’m giving you a digital hug. People won’t know because I’m going to splice this perfectly together, but we actually had tons of Internet issues and you’ve got a storm over there going on. And we’ve recorded on two different devices. So hopefully this is going to be smooth. So thanks for bearing with the process and thanks for all of your good advice. We love you so much and have a freaking awesome day.

Kim Doyal:
Right back at you, Lee. Sweet dreams.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Peace out. What was that? Peace out.

Kim Doyal:
I never say peace out. You know, it’s funny. It’s kind of like my what up? I used to do. I don’t know why. And I’ve done that. Peace out. I’m all girl. You’re 46.

Kim Doyal:
Like, people don’t want to hear you saying peace out anymore.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
You know, I want to start doing with these podcasts? I want to do like an after hours. Yeah, you know, like after the podcast when everyone starts getting drunk and just having a stupid joke and everything. So that’s one thing I’d love to do. Just keep recording.

Kim Doyal:
There was one that it’s so funny for Hustle Free because we have an editor and John and I like, we’re like, you there, you there, right? So we’re connecting on Skype and it was like, so he called me and I’m all, roundtable pizza. And so he used that.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So there we have it, the end of our two part catch up with Kim. Remember, you can go and check out her website on thewpchick.com if you’re not a member of our WP Innovator Facebook group, then head on over to leejacksondev.com group that’s going to redirect you to the Facebook group, which is a private group for web designers, web developers and people essentially interested in WordPress that can just all get together and join and share information and talk about stuff. Even share cat pictures.

Kim Doyal:
Pictures.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
We do, you know, have the odd cat picture in there as well, which seems to be, I think, kind of like an unwritten Internet rule that you kind of have to now and again just throw in a cat picture now and again. No cat meme. Or is it me me? I don’t know. I say meme. What do you say? Hey, let me know, right? Next week we’re going to have Curtis McHale on the podcast. He’s going to be talking about a whole wide range of topics, but specifically as well, onboarding clients. He about talks, talked with me about onboarding clients and an email that he sends out to them. He’s even given us the script for that email to send out to somebody who’s interested in taking on a web project with him.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
He will send out this. It’s, I think it’s about eight questions and it is just gold. So guys, tune in next week. That will be episode 60 with Curtis McHale. And until then, keep innovating and don’t forget to join the Facebook group. See ya.