WordCamp London 2018

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Verbatim text

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Welcome to episode number 126 of the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host Lee. And in today’s show, we’re doing something very different. We’re putting together a range of recordings that we’ve been making throughout the day here at WordCamp in London 2018. I’m excited to be meeting some awesome people and also to be sharing some of my journey with people in one of the discussions. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this very random stitch together probably extremely unprofessional and hopefully enjoyable show. This podcast is brought to you by the agency trailblazer community. Is agency life stressing you out? Then it is our mission to help you build an agency that you love.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
We’ve created a community which includes the agency reset roadmap that will allow you to get your agency back on the right track. We also have lots of noble straight to the point, easy to consume workshops. We have a thriving community of other agency owners. And we all wrap up every month with a mastermind call with myself and sometimes a special guest where we unpack your questions. For more details, check out agency trailblazer.com. So today, we’re doing something slightly different. I am here in WordCamp in London. Did the stupid thing.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I got up at like 3:50 AM. I live an hour away. Up at 3:50 AM on the nice and early train. That’s the 17 minutes past 5 train to London. I’m in London at 6 30 in the morning. Bright and breezy thinking that it’s gonna be a little while yet before I get to the location. Low and behold, the last train was 4 minutes long and I was at the location way too early. Almost an hour before registration had even begun.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
But that’s fine because the WordPress community are absolutely fantastic and friendly. I gotta hang out with Carrie and a few other people in the reception area. Generally, Generally having a good old chinwag. Now gotta confess, I haven’t washed any t shirts for a little while. It’s a bit gross of me, I know. So I went out to Primark or as I would like to tell people it’s Primani and bought myself a t t shirt. So I’m stood feeling all cool in my wonderful, gorgeous looking t shirt. You know, I can see people looking at me in my t shirt saying, yeah.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
That that guy’s got style. I like that t shirt. Anyway, Carrie is chatting away, and then she looks down and she says, is that gonna be part of your your t shirt, or is that a tag? And, yep, I’d left the muscle fit tag on. So I then had to explain that I purchased this particular t shirt because, you know, it said muscle fit. I don’t actually have any muscles, and she laughed. And she said, that’s alright, Lee. You can fake it until you make it. So, that’s been my experience so far.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Registration has now opened, though. So we, have gone inside. There’s, quite a few of us already mingling around having conversations. There’s loads of coffee, which is intense. And, I’m essentially hanging around waiting for the guys over at WP Builds as well as, fellow beaver builders like Dave Toomey and Paul Lacey and everyone else to get their butts here because last night, fellas and ladies, they all went out and got absolutely munted apparently, and I believe they all have hangovers. Although Paul Lacey has confessed that he doesn’t have a hangover. He’s actually still drunk. So I’m hoping to get a couple of them and just record maybe with my iPhone, maybe with this microphone.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I don’t know how I’m gonna do this. Absolutely no idea. I’m rocking around with a laptop and microphone and a headset, and people are looking at me like I’m weird. That’s fine. We’re we’re in WordPress land. We’re all cool. So don’t know how I’m gonna get their audio, but I’m gonna have a try. And I’m gonna record a few spots throughout the day to let you know how it went.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m gonna be speaking shortly as well. That’s at 9:40. Not as though, you know, you’re listening to this now. Not as though you can get it unless you’ve invented the time machine. But I’m gonna try and get a copy of the audio after the event to see whether or not I can upload that and share that as well with everybody. But we’re gonna be talking about the agency reset road map. So really just sharing my journey of, being at a point with our old agency where we were really unhappy and stressed and were really tempted to just kinda walk away. But then we went through an entire reset, really reevaluating what we were doing, starting with our why, then understanding that mission.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And then from that, establishing what our strengths were. And then from those strengths, understanding what clients’ problems were around for us to solve that best matched our strengths. So it was a a cool journey for us. Really, really helpful. And it’s something that you can find in the agency trailblazer community as well over on agency trailblazer.com. You’ll be pleased to know that registration for that is now open, evergreen. We’re not gonna be opening and closing. We’re just gonna be leaving the doors open as of today, which is awesome.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
But, yeah, we’re gonna cover that in today’s talk. So hopefully that’ll go well. I’ll be sharing that story. I’ll try not to share too much with them because I might get quite vulnerable and end up crying because the agency reset road map is both exciting, but also quite emotional quite an emotional experience because you think of the decisions you’ve made and the experiences you’ve had, and they really do help shape you sometimes in a negative way rather than a positive way. So it’s it’s a good process. It’s a healthy process to go through and I’m really hoping that I can help some people today share sharing my journey with them and maybe helping them along their journey as well. Okay. So I’ve no idea how I’m gonna now splice in all the audio but this should be fun.

Nathan Wrigley:
I am sat here with a very handsome man. This is mister Nathan Wrigley.

Nathan Wrigley:
You’re blind sunshine.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Well, I’m not wearing my glasses because my brand basically is pictures of me without glasses on. So I I’ve spent the entire time here without glasses on, mate. So are you enjoying yourself so far?

Nathan Wrigley:
Yes. We should say we’re at WordCamp in London 2018. Yeah. I really, really, really am. I’m having a great time. I’m sitting at a table currently with Lee Jackson and, and just beautifully sat opposite me is Justin Buser from Beaver Builder. On my right is Mike Killen from Beaver Funnels and also and sell your service dotco.uk. And, Robbie Robbie from Beaver, but he’s just disappeared.

Nathan Wrigley:
Are you enjoying it?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m having a wonderful time. Like you said, we’re meeting people. The one thing I found really funny though is most of us, like me and you, have never physically met. And yet we’re hanging out and talking with each other like we’ve known each other for donkey’s years. I felt absolutely no weirdness about just starting conversations and hanging around with all the people from the Facebook groups. Are you finding that sim same sort of experience?

Justin Busa:
Yeah. I I have to say, I I am sometimes a bit shy at the at these kind of events. Like, if this was nothing to do with WordPress, I think I’d potentially not talk to as many people. But for some reason because this is this is our thing, isn’t it? WordPress, me and you. I feel like I wanna just talk to everybody. But I am currently just sitting with you guys and not really meeting new people, but that it’s nice. Nevertheless, I’m having a nice time.

Nathan Wrigley:
Well, I think I think it’s important to hang around with you. Hang around with your buddies. Now tell us all about last night. Dish dish the the gossip from last night because I wasn’t there which is wise. I had my speech. So, you know, but tell us what happened. But but you can tell us.

Justin Busa:
It could be summed up in one word. The word is booze. Booze happened. We ended up in a pub actually where there was a a re there’s a really nice pub close to the venue. I think it’s called the swimmer or some the swimmer at Grafton Arms, something like that, and we ended up there. And essentially all of the WordPress people that, that I’m in touch with were all in the pub at the same time. And, yeah, you you know, one thing leads to another and and yeah.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Anyway My head my head I’m

Nathan Wrigley:
wondering where this finishes. My own this morning. Yeah. I’m very pleased that you managed to turn up turn up on time. I think you’re all playing so close to the win. Dave Dave’s actually gone. Dave Toomey of Beaver Builder group fame, has actually gone back to bed for an hour. Yes.

Justin Busa:
So it’s huge. It was huge.

Robbie:
Really? Yeah.

Nathan Wrigley:
Oh, wow. Gone back to bed. So other than hanging out with people getting a bit drunk and hungover, have you learned anything at all whilst you’ve been here?

Justin Busa:
Do you know? I genuinely have. I went to well, I went to your talk, which was lovely. And then at the same just shortly after your talk, we learned a bit about Grunt. And, well, we didn’t learn about Gulp, but, you know, you get the idea. And then I went to an SVG one this morning as well, which was really informative because I I don’t use s v I just don’t upload SVG images, and now I know why I don’t upload them. It It was really fascinating.

Nathan Wrigley:
So be sure to tune in to wpbuilds.com because I am pretty sure you’re gonna be doing a episode on SVG for

Imogen Allen:
us all

Nathan Wrigley:
to educators.

Justin Busa:
That’s coming soon.

Nathan Wrigley:
Coming soon.

Imogen Allen:
Coming soon to a podcast near you.

Nathan Wrigley:
I’m here with mister Robbie, mister tousled head. I’ve managed not to stroke your hair so far, but I feel like at some point during this interview, I may just have to just stroke your hair a little bit because it’s so beautiful. Yeah. And luscious locks. So, so they go. Now hitting on Robbie from Beaver Builder. Mate, how are you doing?

Robbie:
I’m doing great. I’m doing great.

Nathan Wrigley:
He’s lying. He’s actually hungover. He was out with Nathan who you’ll have just heard earlier, I believe having a few beers and sampling the UK life. So I can ask you a big question because I don’t know much about Gutenberg at the moment but everyone’s freaking out about it. Can you tell us in your own words what you understand about it and what it would potentially mean for Beaver Builder?

Robbie:
Yeah. Good question. Gutenberg is WordPress’s new editor. It’s their project to replace the existing text editor in WordPress, tiny MCE. And when it was announced, I guess, probably, like, a year and a half ago now, it is supposed to evolve from a text editor to being an entire site customizer. So there is a little bit of potential overlap in what they’re doing with Gutenberg and what we’re doing with Beaver Builder. Currently, though, they’re just focusing on the text editor portion of it, and we’ve been really excited to embrace and extend the work that they’re doing. And our our our take, if I was to put it, you know, quickly, we don’t think that Gutenberg is gonna encroach on what we’re doing with Beaver Builder, yet.

Robbie:
We have some time to figure it out, and we are a small nimble team that’s a little bit more agile. So our hope is that we can continue to improve and iterate on what the core team is doing.

Nathan Wrigley:
That’s a very good answer.

Robbie:
I’ve said I’ve said it a few times now. Some variation of.

Nathan Wrigley:
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard you say it before somewhere else, but it’s just nice to get it on our show as well. So have you had any chance to get to to any of the sessions here yet?

Robbie:
Not yet.

Nathan Wrigley:
Which is now the evidence that they were out last night.

Robbie:
You look good here, Lee. I’m hungover. I haven’t been to a session. It’s a it’s a beautiful day. So since we’ve been in London today, it’s sunny and gorgeous outside. This is the nicest weather we’ve seen. So we we took a little bit of time to enjoy the day before we got here. That’s beaut

Nathan Wrigley:
and you’ve all got all day tomorrow in here, haven’t you, to, to to get involved? You brought some of your team here as well. How come you decided to come over to London?

Robbie:
Well, that was part of the reason. We work with 2 guys that are based out here in the UK that we’ve been working with for over a year and we’ve never met in person. So we got to hang out with them face to face and that was really exciting. And just the opportunity to come out and travel and do the word camp in a different country. This has been a really unique experience. I’ve never been to Europe before. I’ve never really traveled internationally before. So all of those reasons combined, it just seemed like a fun fun fun opportunity to get some work done.

Nathan Wrigley:
That’s amazing. I mean, I remember reading the page builder. I I can’t remember what you called it. Was it, like, frontline page builder or Fastline. Fastline. That was it. Fastline page builder about 4 years ago. Yeah.

Nathan Wrigley:
And you’re a small team of 3. Yep. Yep. And, now you’re how big is the team now?

Robbie:
Sorry. Say again?

Nathan Wrigley:
How big is your team?

Robbie:
Oh, about about team people.

Nathan Wrigley:
How how have you guys felt, over the last kind of few years of the escalation of being a builder?

Robbie:
Very fortunate. We’ve had good growth. We’d have, you know, there it still feels like every day we wake up and it’s just like, hey, let’s keep putting food on the table here. When we started out you know, we didn’t know what we were getting ourselves into, but it’s been such a wild journey and a wild ride. I feel really fortunate for where we’ve come, and it’s been such a blast. I mean especially just last night hanging out in a pub in London, you know, totally out of my element, getting to meet some of these guys like yourself face to face that we’ve been, you know, conversing and getting to know each other online for years now and, I have to pinch myself.

Nathan Wrigley:
I remember you guys were on the podcast absolutely years ago. I think it was episode 3 or something like that. All 3 of you. That was wicked. Well, thanks so much for

Robbie:
your time. You’re a legend, mate. Take care. My pleasure. Thank you.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m here with mister Paul Lacey on the Teflon or the telephone here. Where are you? Houston station?

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. I’m at London, Houston. Yep. On my home.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Mate, as we had an amazing time, didn’t we, at WordCamp?

Imogen Allen:
We did. It was amazing to meet you, dude. That was that was one of the highlights for sure, if not the highlight.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was my highlight. Well, I loved the nice hug. I I enjoyed stroking your beard. I kinda got a bit weird, didn’t it, I think?

Imogen Allen:
That was nice. Yeah. Well Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was good to say, but, you know, it’s been there’s been a lot of flirting There was a lot. The year. So, you know, there was something was gonna happen.

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. It was great.

Nathan Wrigley:
It’s probably a good job I wasn’t there

Lee Matthew Jackson:
for the second day because things could have escalated.

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we meant to have a quiet you know, a nice quiet evening, you know, at the on the Saturday night. It didn’t really work out like that. It was it was a good holiday.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
What do you think of, the the atmosphere there at WordCamp, mate?

Imogen Allen:
I love it. I just I just love going there on a weekend, knowing that I can just think creatively, because that’s what everyone starts doing. They kinda go there, and everyone’s a bit shy and stuff like that. But then you you just you just start getting inspired by conversations and little talks that you watch. I only actually watched 2 talks, to be honest, for the entire weekend. And, so I was more doing, like, what what they call the hallway track. Yeah. It just means just hanging around, just talking to people, and, basically, you know, having a weekend off from the kids and and all the jobs that you have to do at home and all that.

Imogen Allen:
So so it was it was brilliant. And, you know, just having chat to people and meeting some some amazing friends who I’ve known online, but yet haven’t met in real life, and, you know, that was that was the best part for me. Just the atmosphere is great, and it gets better as it kinda goes along as well.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s absolutely right. What was the kind of the biggest thing that stands out? I mean, the there’s an amazing team behind WordCamp, and they’ve done a phenomenal job. But what was it particularly that you think they really nailed this year?

Imogen Allen:
They were just the best hosts. They were so friend everyone’s so friendly. The amount of work that must have gone into this is just, you know, untrue. And the value, I think, is £40 for a, ticket that I paid, and I got that value back in all sorts of ways as well. So Yeah. I just, it’s it’s worth, 10 times that, really, for what you get out of it and all. The inspiration is the best thing, honestly, just talking to other people, who are who are all in the same zone as you at that at that particular time. So you’re all kinda, like, thinking in the same way and and, you know, encouraging each other and swapping stories and ideas and that sort of stuff.

Imogen Allen:
That’s it.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m a bit jealous that you guys got to all hang out with the Beaver Builder team and have a few beers.

Imogen Allen:
So,

Lee Matthew Jackson:
you know, I I may hold up against you for a very long time.

Imogen Allen:
It wasn’t just beers. There were shots as well by the end. Oh, mate. Robin had

Lee Matthew Jackson:
proper hangover when I when

Nathan Wrigley:
I was interviewing him. You could really tell.

Imogen Allen:
I’m not surprised. Yeah. No. It’s a brilliant pie. And, you know, I’ve got to meet, you know, some of my heroes, the, the beautiful, the guys who, you know, create a product that is just responsible for, the direction that our agency has taken for for the last couple of years. That was that was absolutely fantastic too. I was so shy. You know, I was literally, you know, starstruck.

Imogen Allen:
I was starstruck when I saw you as well. It’s like I mean, I shouldn’t sound so so surprised. I I was starstruck when I saw you. But well, I just that you know, that that’s a cool thing. You know, you see people that you kind of you look up to and you respect and stuff like that, and and then you can just hang out and have a coffee or whatever and and just kinda do fun things together. It’s all cool.

Nathan Wrigley:
As flattering as that is, I I

Lee Matthew Jackson:
guess the starstruckedness, though, thankfully, only lasts for, like, 3 seconds. Because even with the guys from Beaver Builder, you know, within seconds, we’re all just chatting like we’ve known each other forever. Think that’s one of the great things about the WordCamp, setups is that you get to mix with the amazing people. You know, Robbie and and Justin, like, those 2 I have right up there on a pedestal. Good old Nathan as well. I love the WP Bills podcast. I love his style, and it was so great to be able to hang out with him as well. But, you know, if you go to the conference, you you don’t really get access to these sorts of people, do you? They, you know, they’re all, they are the speakers.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
They’re in they’re hidden away in the green room, and and everybody’s kind of clamoring to get a piece of them if possible. Whereas with WordCamp, it was just such an amazing family well, it was a family. It was a it was a friendly atmosphere, and everyone’s just hanging out with everyone. The guys from the VPN engine were there, were having a great laugh. Just, we got well, GoDaddy, who else? We had loads of people there. It was it was in a sense.

Imogen Allen:
There was there was loads of good companies there and and, you know, to to get to chat to them and stuff. Because last year, when I met, GoDaddy Pro, they kind of got me into, managed WP, which has been a a real kind of game changer and stuff. And I’ve met some other companies today, some good hosting some good hosting companies and stuff like that. And, and also, I was speaking to Nathan. I I was tasked with giving out some of his leaflets to to say, you know, come on his show and everything, but I managed to lose my bag. So, in the pub on, Saturday night it turns out it was in the pub, thankfully, because that’s the end of the story. I found it the next day Yeah. When we called the pub at 4 o’clock.

Imogen Allen:
It didn’t it didn’t have anything neat you know, useful in there. Just my my laptop, my wallet, and my train ticket.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Just everything? Just your entire life? Just for 90 Yeah. To become Paul Lacey.

Imogen Allen:
It was I I had my phone. Yeah. So, yeah, I had my phone, and that was about you know, that was that was all I’d still got. And, but we found it the next day, so that was amazing. So that really topped off the weekend on a high.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, it’s funny, though. I mean, I’m not surprised, mate, because you did leave your laptop and, like, disappear, and we had to pick up your laptop from you. Laptop for you. That was the day before. And then we walked around for, like, half an hour. You showed up to,

Imogen Allen:
I

Nathan Wrigley:
remember you you showed up

Lee Matthew Jackson:
to the second talk. I think it was, Peaches, talk you showed up for.

Imogen Allen:
Yep. Yeah. I don’t We handed you your laptop,

Lee Matthew Jackson:
and you were like, oh,

Nathan Wrigley:
I didn’t even know it was missing.

Imogen Allen:
No. I’ve I’ve I’ve left it in places twice. It’s as if like I was trying to do an insurance job on it and, I failed. I’ve tried to get rid of it twice and it keeps coming back. There you go. Mate, it was funny. It was cool to bring the whole team as well. That was probably the best part.

Imogen Allen:
Well, not the whole team. Lindsay, my wife, didn’t come.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
She was, you know, she’s she’s probably not really that interested, I don’t think. But, you know, Adrian and Peter came from Vicky Bird’s team, and and, you know, that was a really good bonding session for us. We’ve known each other for a long time, but just, you know, to go and hang out and do that kind of thing for the team was was really fun.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Absolutely. And it was great for me as well to meet meet your team. We’ve we’ve spoken kind of online and offline several times, and just to be able to put those faces, to the names and to the voices as well, it was a phenomenal time. So what would you say to any we have some beautiful faces, mate. What would you say to anyone who is considering to go into either a WordPress meetup or a WordCamp in their area at any time soon?

Imogen Allen:
Well, sorry about the background noise. Someone’s seeing loads of listening. But,

Lee Matthew Jackson:
they’re both whistling

Imogen Allen:
you clearly. So Yeah. They they yeah. They must know I’m I’m on TV. I’m on TV. No. No. That’s I mean, when I, went to my first WordPress meet up about a year and a half ago or something, that put me on a totally different track, in terms of attitude.

Imogen Allen:
And, and it you know, that’s led to me meeting all sorts of people, that I just simply wouldn’t have met. I was just carrying on as my own sort of person using WordPress as a piece of software and all that kind of thing. And, I went to the 1st meetup. It was just a nice social, and from there, a WordCamp, and then from there joining, Facebook groups and stuff like that. And it all started with just one day just looking it up and saying, you know what? I’m gonna go to this WordPress Meetup. And I had no idea what it was gonna be, and it was just kind of a chat in a in a in a pub and about, different things, you know, about security and this and that. Just stuff that you wanna talk about a lot of the time when you’re into this kind of stuff. And, yeah, I mean, just I would just say to anybody to go because it just it it’s completely defined everything I’ve done since by just getting involved in this way.

Imogen Allen:
No.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So get it get involved with your local WordPress meetup. It’s a game changer.

Imogen Allen:
Yeah.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And, of course, your local WordCamp event. If you are in London or in Europe, or in the UK even or anywhere near, then definitely try and make 2018 phenomenal time, phenomenal event. Mate, thanks so much

Imogen Allen:
for your time.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Safe journey back on

Imogen Allen:
the

Lee Matthew Jackson:
train, and I will chat to you soon because I already wanna make

Imogen Allen:
it again.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was just great to hang out, have beer with you.

Imogen Allen:
Oh, it’s brilliant. So many hugs. It was brilliant.

Nathan Wrigley:
So many hugs and also the funny stories of you losing stuff.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
You know, 48 hours and we

Imogen Allen:
have things

Lee Matthew Jackson:
we can talk about.

Imogen Allen:
Oh, yeah. And you look sexier in real life than you do on the pictures, man.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I had to breathe in the whole time, mate. It was awful. When I got on the train afterwards, I

Imogen Allen:
was just looking all now.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Like that.

Imogen Allen:
Oh, brilliant. Take care, mate. To talk to you again, and I’ll speak to you soon. Cheerio. Bye. Bye.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m here with Imogen, and it’s the morning after the night before. We are talking about your experiences of WordCamp. How are you doing today?

Imogen Allen:
I am doing really well. Thank you. I’m just putting everything together and writing a bit of a blog post about the weekend. So I have that’s what I’ve been working on this morning and reflecting on on the whole weekend and the whole sense of community that really is probably the biggest word, I think, if you if I had to sum it up, the weekend, in one word, it is the word community, definitely.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Absolutely. I remember sitting next to you in the accessibility, course, and you you were writing notes. And then you showed me all your notes, and you went blog.

Nathan Wrigley:
And I replied and said, you

Lee Matthew Jackson:
have a content image and everything.

Imogen Allen:
Absolutely. I have my my content antennae on. But, yeah, it’s it’s a it’s a really great opportunity to learn so many different things, and there was such a an array of subjects to choose from. And I think the other word that comes to mind about the whole weekend is inclusivity.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Oh, yeah.

Imogen Allen:
And, not only in the point of there was different topics that would appeal to different kinds of people and what their what their own strengths are. But also, interestingly, that, there was inclusivity for men and the women because, obviously, quite a male dominated event. Mhmm. But one where I didn’t even think about it. Yeah. It it didn’t really occur to me at all. Everybody was just what what whoever you spoke to, you felt that you were included, and whatever you said was was valid and appreciated. It so you don’t always it’s not always like that, in in wherever you go, is it? But this was just something that really stood out for the whole weekend.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
What what I really loved as well was they were doing the transcriptions of people’s talks so you could read them. I forgot my glasses in one of the events, and, they had monitors all the way up the right hand side and the left hand side, so I could actually look at a closer monitor as well. So, obviously, there’s inclusivity of of human beings, but also of pretty much all disabilities as well. It was really phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
It it was. It was really good in that way as well. And, also, I think because, it it’s hard to catch everything because, actually, you feel a bit a little bit overloaded with information. And so being able to actually write down the name of the speaker so that you can follow-up later and go and check them out and perhaps find out some some more information. One of the sessions I really, really enjoyed actually was the accessibility, one that we both went to see with Magia Bank who talked about that, and that’s something I’m gonna be looking into in more detail.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s something you’re gonna be looking

Imogen Allen:
into as well, isn’t it? It is. Yeah. That was the that was the one.

Justin Busa:
That was the one.

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Any funny stories? I mean, I know you went out with, well, I think you went out with the guys on one of the evenings.

Imogen Allen:
We did. We we kind of stayed in the, at at the venue because later later on that evening, there was a bit of a pie night. Mhmm. And we we all had pie, sat around a big table of of WP elevators, actually. We were in the end. Yeah. We all kinda came together, ate pie. But, fortunately, we didn’t lose our taste because the pie crust were a little bit hard.

Imogen Allen:
Oh. So we kind of all ate the middle the middle and the mash, but but, no pie crust because it’s a little bit chewy.

Imogen Allen:
Oh, no. That really is

Lee Matthew Jackson:
a good pie. That does.

Nathan Wrigley:
I mean, I couldn’t stay here.

Imogen Allen:
I know.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Unfortunately, I had to be back home with the family. So I was kind of, jealous of seeing everyone’s pictures coming up in social media and that. But I’m I’m I feel a bit better to know that it was, solid crusty pie crusts.

Imogen Allen:
So

Imogen Allen:
It was a bit solid. Yeah. Yeah. But but, you know, I’ve

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’ll consult myself for that.

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. Exactly. So, I I think a few of us did didn’t want to do any damage to our teeth. But, yeah, it was, it was very, very well organized, I have to say. And, I I I did go and say hello to Dan maybe, who’s one of the the lead organizers for the event, and and say hello. So it’d be great to catch up with people that I’ve I’ve met that I didn’t know before and and say hello to them, in the next kind of 24 hours as I’m catching up with, following that, you know, following that on from from meeting up with people. So it’s been it’s been an amazing event. And see you live in action, as well.

Imogen Allen:
And we’ve got some great photos, didn’t we, of your presentation

Justin Busa:
Yes.

Imogen Allen:
And developing your story. It’s really important because we are the we are the our businesses, aren’t we? We are the the the voice behind the business. So, it’s just helping people find their why, isn’t it, and why they do what they wanna do. And, like you say, not having those moments where it’s just too much, it’s overwhelming, and you you you don’t love what you do anymore. So that was really inspiring from you. Well, I’m glad you said already. That was kind

Imogen Allen:
of my

Lee Matthew Jackson:
point I was making throughout the entire speech. So that means it must have worked. The message must have gone across.

Imogen Allen:
It did. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. And I I think that was one of the biggest things about the the event overall was that there was a real mix of presentation. So there was there were ones that were kind of more about your personal development and, a more emotional side, and then there were, you know, more going across to really technical, side of things as well as hot topics like GDPR because that’s the hot topic at the moment.

Imogen Allen:
Oh, that

Imogen Allen:
place is random. Done. Oh, I know. Yeah. I was I was standing at the back.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Standing room only.

Imogen Allen:
Standing room only. So it was brilliant because there was something for everybody, and the the topics were varied. The speakers were all amazing, and I I know there was I know it’s your first time, and and Peetra as well did an amazing presentation on UI and a fantastic presentation. And that was her first time, but this is one of 3 for her. She’s off, on tour Yeah. Doing 2 more around Europe. So that’s incredible.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Oh, wow. So is there anything you think you might be doing differently about your business as a result of being at WordCamp?

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. I think one of the biggest things that came up for me was, pushing content. In terms of actually making it a service, somehow, I’m not quite sure yet. I Mike Killensary, currently, said we can speak about that a little bit more and how to actually wrap that in a service because it’s something I really love doing, and I’ve been writing lots of blogs as you know. And I think I just need to put it out there. Yeah. Just be confident and do it. I think that, yeah, coming away with more confidence again and and getting really great feedback from other people, it just helps you make a few decisions and stop being a bit shy and just take action.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Absolutely. So do you mean putting your own content out there more, or do you mean offering content creation as a service?

Imogen Allen:
Both. Both.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Because you are very good at creating content. I’ve I’ve noticed I mean, we we had our mastermind called, didn’t we, in the agency trailblazer community a couple of weeks ago. And we were we were sharing, our experiences about how do we manage the stress and the overwhelm of agency life. And I can see you you made a few notes and shared them, and then we were all like, that’s a blog post. And you were like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I’m gonna write this.

Imogen Allen:
You were And I did, and it’s it was published last week. So yeah. And

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m sending the link,

Nathan Wrigley:
and I’ll put that in the

Lee Matthew Jackson:
show notes. That’d be great.

Imogen Allen:
Oh, okay. Brilliant. Yeah. And and I think the thing is as well, because there’s so many issues that that talked about in the WordPress community and probably other business communities as well, And there’s sometimes the things that we don’t or we think it’s just us. So one of my, I like trying to help people by making them realize that it’s not just them

Imogen Allen:
Mhmm.

Imogen Allen:
And that it’s okay to talk about these things or perhaps have these fears and worries. And I think if they read something, it really helps them think, oh, it’s not just me. Oh, there’s other people. And, you know, they can reach out and make contact with other people and realize they’re not on their own. Mhmm. And so if any of these things do help, when people read and think, oh, I’m gonna try that and see if that makes a difference to me, then that’s that’s that’s fantastic. So having that balance for me about stuff to do with the person and helping them have a, you know, a less less stress or realizing they’re not alone with imposter syndrome and that kind of thing, as well as then perhaps developing the more technical writing, which, I don’t do so much of and I need to. And then being able to write for other people.

Imogen Allen:
Sometimes it’s easier to write for other people. It’s harder to write for yourself

Imogen Allen:
Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
Because you you feel a bit vulnerable, I think. So, so yeah. So that was my biggest that’s what the biggest thing that came out for me from the weekend.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Although on the vulnerability thing, I think I was definitely encouraged, when I was there as well. Because a lot of people in the conversations and people who are leading, you know, were were being very vulnerable, very honest, and open. I think that’s one of the things that

Imogen Allen:
Yeah.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Really encourages me about kind of the WordPress community and also the design and development communities in general, even even outside of WordPress. I think we’re one of those rare industries, and I think I’ve said this somewhere else in this podcast. But, we’re one of the rare industries, I feel, that everybody is in it together. We’re all in theory competitors, and yet at the same time, we just all wanna help each other out. And we’ll be able to help each other because there is plenty of business out there for everybody. Everybody’s got their own unique skills. For example, you are the content queen. I think that’s now gonna be on your strap line, isn’t it? But, you know, but, yeah, we’ve all got our our specialisms.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
We’ve all got our niches, our industries, etcetera. Yeah. And so just such an a wonderful, friendly atmosphere. And, obviously, great to meet you, physically and person as well. We got to hang out. We got book based selfies. That was awesome.

Imogen Allen:
We did.

Imogen Allen:
That’s the law. We did.

Imogen Allen:
That’s fantastic. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It is the law. And and I think that was the thing that we, there was many of us that had already communicated online, and we it was like meeting an old friend. So that’s also created a bit of a safe place

Imogen Allen:
Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
So we can talk about different things. And you you kind of just carry on from the next from the last conversation you had. And it’s Yeah. As if you have already met in real life, it’s kind of a very strange but an amazing thing, isn’t it? This kind of online awkwardness.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think that’s that’s what it was.

Imogen Allen:
0.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Literally, it was just like, oh, I may like, we saw each other, instant hug, and then chat. And I was I had to shoot off someone. I was like, catch you at the end of it. And it was just like a normal as if we just bumped into each other on any normal day. And it was like that with every

Imogen Allen:
single Exactly.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
You met the guys from Beaver Builder as well?

Imogen Allen:
I didn’t catch up with the guys from, Beaver Builder. But on the Friday night, I did meet Nathan Wrigley, who I from WP Builds, who I’d not met but knew of. So that was really great. Enjoyed really talking to him, and, there may be, of course, and then Andrew Palmer from, Elegant Marketplace. Nice. So it’s all these kinda names that are in the WordPress community that you might not have had that direct one to one contact with. But it was okay to go up and say hi, and say say who you were, and they you know, people seem to know who I am. So Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
That’s true. I kinda take that in a good way.

Nathan Wrigley:
Yeah. But that that’s that’s kind of where I

Lee Matthew Jackson:
was leading to, I think, myself was when I got to chat with the, you know, with the Beaver Builder guys. That, again, there was zero awkwardness. It was just as if we were all just catching up after a long spell of not being in the same room together. It was it was strange. And you could approach all of these different people, you know. I I we had a good conversation with Mike Killen. You know, I’m a bit of a fanboy of his work, so meeting up with him. Again, there was no awkwardness.

Imogen Allen:
Absolutely. A few

Lee Matthew Jackson:
months ago, I went to the Eupreener Summit, and I I bumped into Pat Flynn, and I talked garbage at him because I was so overwhelmed and scared.

Nathan Wrigley:
And I hope to God

Imogen Allen:
he doesn’t remember who the hell I

Lee Matthew Jackson:
am in the future when if I ever meet him again. But the the difference at WordCamp, I think, was, you know, with that welcomeness, that inclusivity that you were talking about and everything, everybody was just on the same level, and we just had such a great

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. Absolutely. And just that there’s no awkwardness at all. And it was amazing that the, the Beaver Builder guys came over from the States

Imogen Allen:
Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
The event as well. So that, you know, it that’s just fantastic, isn’t it? And it’s also funny how you you speak to one person. They know someone else you know in the WordPress community, and it’s all kinda linked in. There were some great connections. I spoke to Sebastian from my. I’ve been using his product, and he kind of knows other people that I know. And it just it was just so easy. Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
It was easy, and it was it just kind of all came naturally. It was just just incredible. We’re a safe place to go and speak to people that you kind of maybe feel a bit shy. You wouldn’t perhaps do that in the real world in real kind of in a in a group place where you know people.

Imogen Allen:
Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
But yeah. And I think it’s a great boost for for anybody. I think everybody was doing that as well.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Brilliant. Well, thanks ever so much for your time. I think my last question is and I know what your answer’s gonna be. But would you recommend that people get registered for 2019 WordCamp next year?

Imogen Allen:
Oh, yeah. Is it out already?

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I don’t know yet.

Imogen Allen:
But at

Nathan Wrigley:
some point, when someone listens to this,

Lee Matthew Jackson:
it will be coming out, aren’t it? Because this is Evergreen coming. Yeah.

Imogen Allen:
Yeah. Absolutely. Or 2020

Lee Matthew Jackson:
or whenever you’re listening to this in the future.

Imogen Allen:
Yes. Definitely. I would definitely recommend it. I I I just think you get so much from it personally and also to be able to give something back Absolutely. To community as well and helping other people out and, you know, just talking stuff through. It’s it’s really invaluable. And the feedback this morning from people that have been is that, you know, they really have that sense of worth and motivation and inspiration. So yeah.

Imogen Allen:
If you have the chance to go, do go. Definitely.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Do or if you’ve got a word camp near you, if you’re not near London, I’m pretty sure they’re all the same. Built crafted with love, I think, is is is is how it was. Amazing. Well, thanks ever so much, Imogen. You are a legend. And,

Imogen Allen:
Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
No worries. Well, I’m getting your butt back on the podcast soon to talk about content, if you don’t mind. So

Imogen Allen:
Fantastic. There

Lee Matthew Jackson:
you go.

Imogen Allen:
Okay. Sounds like we’ll make a date.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Brilliant. Have a wonderful day.

Imogen Allen:
Thank you so much, Lee. Thank you. Bye.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So that was a handful of recordings that I was able to do at WordCamp in London 2018. Unfortunately, a few of them didn’t really work out because it was a very noisy environment, but that was a good thing. It was just full of energy. You could probably hear the conversations going on in the background. There was quite a lot of sponsors there. Some hosts I’d never heard of. We had some fascinating conversations with those guys. And I’d surely recommend you go ahead and check out the word camp website.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I will put a link into London’s word camp website and go ahead and check out those sponsors. And do support those sponsors if you can either just by checking out their content, signing up to their email lists, or any way that you can because the sponsorship really helps make these word camp events happen. The tickets were so cheap. It was £40 for the entire weekend, and we got fed. That was phenomenal. The food was amazing. Now, unfortunately, I wasn’t able to be there on the second day. I had to be back here supporting the family.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
However, I do understand they also had another feast. The the show itself or the event is also super accessible. They they provide you with creche facilities. So if you’ve got children, you don’t have to worry about babysitting. You can take your family there. You can be looked after there. Your kids can be entertained. But, also, they’re very, very big on accessibility.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So there was screens everywhere with text so that you could read. They had people transcribing as people spoke. It was an absolutely phenomenal event where inclusivity and supporting everybody was absolutely paramount. Now, I actually I confessed during this that I do wear glasses. I take them off because they’re not very good on camera. They’re very reflective and I actually can’t read stuff when I take my glasses off. And it was wonderful to know that I could look at screens that were near us. So, for example, in the bigger hall, they were placing screens so many intervals down the sides.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So if you couldn’t see the screen right down at the very far end, if you’re sat near the back, there was a screen near you to look at. They literally thought of everything, and I was so so impressed. There was signage everywhere as well. I mean, as designers, we wanna know about signage and good design means you don’t have to think too much. And yes, there was literally signage everywhere. The location, the London Metropolitan University, is actually quite a complicated place to find your way around. There’s loads and loads of corridors, but the guys did such a great job as well on the signage, making sure that everybody knew where they were. And I love the how they described the road.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
The road just outside the university was described as the corridor of the event because there was a a an a track, a b track, and a c track. And, essentially, you would make your way out into that, quote unquote, corridor, the street, and walk on down to the b track or down to the c track, etcetera. So it was really good way of describing it as well. Really, really fun event. The cool thing is as well as if you’re not necessarily fully into the, WordPress EcoStruxure, whatever the right word is. It doesn’t matter because there were so many, sessions on things that don’t necessarily require you to be using WordPress or don’t necessarily require you to be a fully fledged developer. You could just simply like WordPress or use it now and again. Or you could be an agency owner that doesn’t use WordPress, but you wanna learn all of the latest trends.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I mean, we had a fantastic session on accessibility. And there were so many things that came out from that that really surprised me including something as simple as us forcing a new tab to open for people can actually really make it difficult for people using screen readers who really rely on using that back button. I was I was really surprised. So, I mean, that’s just a very, maybe a little example from one of the sessions, but there was so much information available to us throughout in all of the many, many sessions. And, I mean, if you go ahead and look at the schedule, you’ll see how many seminars were available for you to go to to learn. It was an amazing experience. And then on top of the learning, I made so many new friends. Now you’ll all be a member of the WP Innovator Facebook group.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I really hope you are. If not, it’s wpinnovator.comforward/group. But going to these sorts of events, going to your WordPress meetups locally, and also coming to these big WordCamp events are just such a wonderful way to connect physically with the people that we’re connecting with digitally online all the time. And I alluded to it in our conversation with Nathan when I said, man, it’s it’s weird. I’ve never physically met you. I’ve maybe spoken to you once or twice over Skype. But we’re talking and we’re communicating and we’re having a laugh. And, I mean, when we met each other, we just went had a hug straight away and a great chat.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It’s it’s it’s just an amazing way to really cement those relationships. And I put a comment later on in one of the groups that I’m in with Nathan and some of the other guys and I just said, look, I really feel like today was a day that we went from, you know, being real close friends online to becoming even more of a family. It was such a wonderful experience. I thank everyone as well that came along to support me for my talk. That was a big learning experience for me. I do quite a lot of that’s kind of speaking at the weekends, etcetera, on Sunday. So I’m used to public speaking, but I’d never been in this sort of setting before, in a WordPress setting. It was really exciting for me, quite nerve wracking to be in front of all of my peers sharing my own journey and advice for the agency reset that I often talk about.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I really wanna thank everybody in the WP Innovative group that did come along. I understood people like Dave Toomey, etcetera, all had hangovers and all dragged themselves out of bed. To come along to my talk in track c and give me a huge round of applause as well and lots of whoops and encouragement. So that was absolutely wonderful. Got to meet loads of people as well from WP Innovator and from Agency Trailblazer community. It was an amazing experience. So guys, next year, I really recommend that you consider going to a word camp near you. If you’re based in the UK or near the UK, then obviously I recommend coming along to Europe because they are serious about putting on a very good quality, educational, inclusive, and accessible event.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was phenomenal. But also that, I I believe that premise, that mission, that passion, that drive is pretty much paramount wherever you are. So if you’re in Australia, deeper in Europe, wherever you are, America, etcetera, be sure to check out a WordCamp near you or at least get to some of those WordPress meetups because the feeling of togetherness, also the education, all of that sort of stuff was absolute rocket fuel for me. And I tell you, I floated out of, WordCamp on the first day feeling amazing, feeling excited about my business, full of brand new ideas. I’ve got so much I wanna tell the guys on Monday, in my team and maybe get them researching, etcetera, because there are so many things that you can learn. And I’ve made loads and loads of new friends. It’s an amazing experience. So like I said, this was a bit of a random episode, just clips and sharing of thoughts about how WordCamp London went.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I hope this has given you some sort of an insight if you’ve never been to a WordCamp before. If you have been to a word camp before, then please come into the Facebook group, wpinnovator.comforward/group. Share your experiences. If you are further afield from London and you go to a different word camp, go ahead and share that inside the the WP innovate, group as well. Let’s promote these events and let’s really, rally around these and support these because these are all done by people who are volunteering their time all for the good of the community, all for the good of WordPress. Really phenomenal. Really wonderful time. Great to meet everyone.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I don’t know how to wrap this episode without being all warm y and huggy and feely. So group hug everyone. Love you all. We will see you in next week’s episode.