Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.
Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the Trailblazer FM podcast. This is your host, Lee. On today’s show, and I don’t normally say this about men in general, but this man is extremely handsome and has a wonderful beard, which I can’t help but want to stroke. It’s Alex Curtis.
Alex:
I love how you just dived into radio voice immediately, and it was like on a sixpence. Is that the phrase?
Lee:
I don’t know. I’m not old.
Alex:
We were talking normally. We’re having a normal conversation like two human beings. And then you go full on. I love it.
Lee:
That’s beautiful. Almost as beautiful as you, Alex. Thank you for coming on the show, mate. For folks listening, obviously, Alex and I have known each other for many, many years. He has frequented my events as well, like a flipping legend, and supported me for donkey’s years. We’ve also hung out in the same circles, haven’t we? Things like Chris Ducker world. I think you went to Youpreneur, did you?
Alex:
Yeah, I went to two, the last two. I think it’s two. Yeah, the very first one.
Lee:
We’re also in the same mastermind together as well, so we know each other’s deepest, darkest secrets. We do. Which we won’t share on the podcast. Don’t worry. But for the folks that don’t know you, because I obviously know you very well, could you just give us a little potted history of the world of Alex Curtis?
Alex:
Okay, yeah. How far do we go? Do I start at..
Lee:
1991 when you were born?
Alex:
When early I was born I know, I was being kind. I suppose, well, I initially thought I was going to be a filmmaker, so I did a degree in media production. I was going to be the next Christopher Nolan. So I actually liked him before he was popular. Just one of those things. In case he’s listening. Yeah, and then I did in our film degree, we did… Because in year one, you do modules on… One of the modules was like wiring a plug. They’re like, Oh, you might have to wire a plug because of the lighting. And then one of the modules is also a web design thing. So I made my first website in Notepad in early 2000s. And then I was like, well… And then we did some design. We had a Photoshop thing. We had to design a DVD cover because DVDs were a thing. And so that got me into some designing, coding. And then when I grew up a little bit and realised it’s either go and run tea for people in London on a film set or you could actually get a real job doing websites and stuff.
Alex:
So I did that and then I ran my uni, got a job around there. And then when I came home near Peterborough, got a job at an agency, and their biggest client was a company called The Money Shop. Oh, do you know what? I could have got a really good joke out of this, right? Because I managed a project for an online porn broker website, and I could have made it really funny by saying that I did a porn website, but it’s P-A-W-N. That would have been hilarious. So, yeah, that got me into the world of financial services. And because I had dealt with a project that had to go through FCA approval, and it was on online stuff, that then, when I wanted to do my own thing, got me into the world of online financial services. And I suppose a lot of web designers, builders got fed up with clients making stupid decisions that you know were wrong. So just pivoted in like, this is a solution that if you want to get leads for your online financial advice business, this is the way to do it and position it that way. So then we don’t have this, Oh, can you change that?
Alex:
It’s like, Well, you could if you want less leads, but you came to us because you want more leads. And then just built a business out of doing that, basically.
Lee:
I love that. And I think everybody listening can resonate with things like, Can you make the logo bigger? Can we put this really boring announcement in the blog, please? That people do those press releases, don’t they? It’s really irrelevant and boring, and they’re asking for it to be online and all that stuff. Whereas you’ve actually stuck your stake in the ground and said, Hey, if you want to work with us, then you play by our rules because we know how to generate What was the moment you actually grew? I was going to say balls, but that’s rude. The ball balls. At what point did you feel brave enough to do that?
Alex:
What, quit my job?
Lee:
No, brave enough to say to clients, you’re going to do things our way.
Alex:
Well, when you got the evidence to back it up, I suppose, is when you’ve positioned yourself as this solution, then it’s like, well, this is a process. So it’s like, yes, we can do that if you want to do that, but the reason you’ve come to us is because you want to generate leads and that will have an adverse effect on it. If you know it as a fact, because you’ve done it, you’ve tested it, and you can show the evidence of it, then you don’t need any courage to do that. It’s just you’re talking in in black and white because you’ve done it rather than just say, just a lot of time you get frustrated because you know it, because all your clients are different, different industries and stuff like that. Because all my clients are the same, if you like. Same industry, it’s the same thing, same customer. I can then say, I can say as fact that will 100% have an adverse effect. So it’s your decision, what do you want to do?
Lee:
Don’t do that. It will tank.
Alex:
Yeah, exactly.
Lee:
Because we know, because a client who will remain nameless did the same thing?
Alex:
Yeah, exactly. That’s pretty straightforward. Although sometimes you will still… Clients will grow to a point where they hire a Marketing Manager and they will have their own ideas and not believe you. And then you’re like, Look, we can do the test again, but you won’t look good from this. But it’s a good thing. I suppose. The good thing is everything that I do is a results-based. It is like black and white data. You’re either generating leads that convert to, for our mortgage brokers to a mortgage application which generates revenue or you don’t. So it’s very much getting the clients in the zone of that this is a tool just to help them drive business, it’s not anything else. I think sometimes those frustrations and problems come up because it’s not results-based or it’s your guessing. If you work with clients in all areas, it’s hard for you to know what’s going to be successful or not, because it might have worked for your shoe manufacturer, but not for your, I don’t know, your bowling alley client, whatever. If you’re doing everything for everyone, it’s hard to have that conviction. But when you’ve picked your lane, if you like, nice little segue from the bowling.
Alex:
When you’ve picked your lane and you know more than anyone else at this one thing, then It’s pretty straightforward.
Lee:
That is actually inspiring. Also terrifying because I often look at my own website and I have absolutely no clue how to turn it into a lead-generating engine. I know how to make it look pretty. I know how to do some basic information design and get stuff out there, but that’s about as far as it goes. When it comes to driving traffic to it, et cetera, it becomes a complete minefield to me.
Alex:
Yeah, well, driving traffic is the last thing you want to think about. The first thing you want to think about is converting it because a lot of people, they make that mistake of like, Oh, how do we get those people to it? Just assume they’re going to inquire if they’re interested. If you’re a… A lot of our clients are mortgage brokers. They think, If I’m a mortgage broker and someone’s searching for a mortgage advice, if I just send them there and they know I’m a mortgage broker, then job done. Well, that is not. It’s what people see when they get… Because they’ve got lots of options, you’re not the only one. So In a nutshell, if something is popular and scarce, then it is desirable. But a lot of the time, just being popular, so a lot of the time, just showing that you’ve worked with lots of people, helped lots of people, and you’ve got lots of positive reviews can be enough almost on its own if you got that.
Lee:
So number one, quick win. If you’ve got tonnes of testimonials and all that jazz, throw them on the page.
Alex:
Yeah, like Google reviews are the best one or Trustpilot, yeah. The official one, so it’s not you saying it, it’s a third party.
Lee:
Lees mum says, He’s a great WordPress plugin developer.
Alex:
Yeah, exactly. Well, to be honest, with my own website, I don’t like… Because all our clients are the same, and I don’t really want to publish who our clients are, we don’t actually. So there are ways around it. But being popular is… If you’re not constrained by that and you You’re not worried about that, then getting reviews is good. Getting it for your… If you’re doing websites for your clients, get them to have their five-star Google review and how many they got, like this is the first thing people see. And then for your own one, Yeah, real case studies or just telling people how many websites you’ve done. There’s lots of ways to show that you’re popular, how many clients you’ve got. So it’s popularity. It’s all like that, it’s like a psychological Which is easy for you to say.
Lee:
I’ve also got the song from Wicked At My Head at the moment as well. Popular.
Alex:
I’ve not seen that. And then being scarce is like, if they go and try and book an appointment, they can book at any time, every day, then you You’re not that scarce. Whereas if you’ve got one appointment that week, but you are really popular, that just very much indicates that you’re… Without saying we’re popular and there’s a queue, you can There’s little things you can do.So a lot of time.
Lee:
You’re giving the impression.
Alex:
Yeah, exactly. So a lot of it is around what people think, but without thinking too hard. When they quickly see something, what their assumption is based on, little things that they see is how you build it. Then once you’ve nailed all that, then worry about getting new traffic.
Lee:
That’s interesting. Of course, we all do. Even when we’re reading a magazine, we don’t read everything. We just very quickly skim scan, maybe look at headlines, et cetera, to get an overall idea of, Okay, what’s this page or this section about before I decide whether or not I’m interested in reading? So very often I’ll focus on that really complicated structure of a sentence to make sure I fit absolutely everything from war and peace into it whilst also making it short. And that’s probably irrelevant because they’re probably not going to read it.
Alex:
Well, the headline will decide. So a lot of our biggest impact for client work stuff is in the headline, and it’s shortening it as much as possible and using active voice rather than passive voice. Okay. So passive voice would be, We provide expert mortgage advice, whereas active voice is, Get mortgage advice. So you’re telling people what the outcome is, what you do in the least amount of words as possible. I should have got some examples of data on the back. But that… So we have these tests. So the active verb test is one of the biggest differences in conversion, on our click to lead rate, if you like.
Lee:
Is curiosity a thing, or is that more in a content marketing?
Alex:
Well, it depends. So the easiest lead to get is when someone’s searching for what you do.
Lee:
Yeah, so there’s the buyer intent there.
Alex:
And you provide it. Yeah, so curiosity. There’s two ways that we think, right? There’s a guy called Daniel Kahneman. He won a Nobel Prize for explaining how people make decisions, how people think, right? And there’s two modes, a system one and system two. So system one is like when you’re driving and everything’s like you’re not even thinking about moving it into third gear or whatever. And if I throw you a bit of paper and you catch it, you’re not calculating gravity, velocity, and all that. So that system one, it’s like the instant thinking. And those are those where there’s quick. That’s why you make your… If someone’s searching for what you do and you can keep them in system one mode by not making them too curious that they’d start questioning. And system two is when you question, is when you have to think too hard, where something maybe doesn’t add up. So if you’re thinking system one, we see loads of reviews and you’re saying how popular you are and how many people want to work with you and you’re busy, and then you go to the calendar and like I said earlier, it’s fully open.
Alex:
I could book any time. Then I’m going to question, I’ll then activate system two and be like, Right, so why? That doesn’t make sense. And then you’ve lost them. Whereas everything would piece together and they’d stay in system one. If you’re like, This is popular, this is scarce. I’ve only got one thing, I better get that. You’ve kept them in system one, and then they haven’t become… So sometimes curiosity is good if maybe they weren’t looking for what you do. Sometimes when you want to activate system two, and sometimes you don’t. So a lot of the lead Gen that I do for my clients is, I’m trying to keep them in system one because there’s so many people look for mortgage advice that I don’t need to make them curious. I just need to show them that we’re the best, my clients are the best option. But if you’re then doing something like selling perfume or you’re selling something that people aren’t looking for, then yeah, curiosity is a great… So I’m thinking liquid death, the water. So they spent a lot of their advertising on social to make people curious and confused and like, What is this?
Alex:
I want to find out more about it. Because I suppose it’s that you’re interrupting people’s time on social. So yeah, our curiosity on social stuff and stuff stuff when it’s not their need to find a solution. But if they know what they want, I need a WordPress web designer, then you’re showing that you’re the best option. You not necessarily want to make them curious. You want to sell the appointment to have that conversation. Does that make sense?
Lee:
No, that really makes sense. To be honest, I’ve been in a content mindset for many years now, producing podcasts, producing YouTube videos, et cetera. I’m very used to this exercise as a brand exercise where people are aware of my brand rather than people want to come to me to have a WordPress plugin built. My absolute base proposition is if you are a web designer or a theme developer, whatever, but you just need a WordPress plugin built, then just come to me and I’ll do that bit for you. That is quite literally it. But what I’ve been doing over the years is building this brand of Trailblazer. So I’m very used to the curiosity angle of, All right, come and consume my content. And for this very episode, I might try and come up with a curiosity-based title to drive people to like, What? I don’t know. How does this Busy Man convert and generate leads? I don’t know. It’s a terrible title, but you get the idea.
Alex:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because they won’t be looking for… Nobody will be searching for an interview with Alex Curtis.
Lee:
So you have to… Well, no, that’s true.
Alex:
Exactly. So they’re not… So, yeah, you got to create that. And then I do the whole brand building the authority that makes my… So instead of… We’re talking about getting reviews and stuff. Instead of me, I have to build authority and trust in different ways. So I’ve got a podcast as well. And then I’ve got a column in an industry magazine. And then I’ve got my LinkedIn stuff, and we publish results and stuff. So, yeah, it’s not like one or the other. My business is very different from my client’s business. Because there’s loads of people looking for a mortgage device and not necessarily loads of people looking for a Lead Gen solution for a mortgage device. So I’ve got to do a bit of both. It’s basically got to work out. So with you, it’s like there’ll be people searching for a WordPress plugin developer, and then you’ll have a different strategy for that and a different page if you are running out for it than you would for your brand building, authority building type jazz.
Lee:
No, that makes an awful A lot of sense. I’m also thinking, you just said that there will be a lot of people searching for mortgage advice. If all of your clients want to connect with people who are looking for mortgage advice, how do you differentiate? Are you going via location? So do you only pick clients in specific areas? I mean, I assume you have people who are competing with each other. I don’t know. How does that work?
Alex:
I mean, because there’s so many of them. So when it comes to location, if they’ve got the most Google reviews in their town, when you search mortgage broker near me, whoever’s got the most in that town will get the most traffic, and then it starts good. But with With a mortgage, there’s so many quirks with property types, income types, credit types. If I’m self-employed, can I get more? I’ve got a CCJ, can I get a mortgage? I am a seafarer. I work on on boats and I’m paid in euros, can I get more? There’s so many endless scenarios as well as the local stuff. So there is.
Lee:
So you can really get niche within the niche for people who may be considered competitors, but not necessarily if you can focus on one of those core areas.
Alex:
There’s so many. And then you’ve got buy to let for landlords. You got the residential, you got first-time buyers, home movers, remortgaging. So it’s just like that niche. There’s There’s just so much to go after. We’re nowhere near. We’ve got a lot. We’ve been doing it for over 12, 13 years, whatever it is now.
Lee:
Well, from memory, I’m not looking at your About Us page. You, as a contractor, Our founder, Alex, would work on site with clients between 2014 and 2016, and then limited the company in 2017. That was all from memory. Actually, folks, theleadengine.co.uk/about-us, because I want to now ask you about this page, because I’m at this page and your office looks fantastic, but I’m also thoroughly aware that you just have loads of team members. I feel anxious for you because that’s a lot of salaries you have to pay in that. How do you cope with it all?
Alex:
Have all clients on a retainer, make sure they don’t want to leave, provide amazing service. If we’re making clients money, then we’re the most important thing for their business. Then It’s not… I don’t need to make a sale each month to pay the wages. I need to keep my clients happy. We spend more time on our operations and improving our service than we do trying to find new business, which I worked in agencies where that was not the case. It was all about the new… How do we get new sales? Our sales are not the focus on looking after the existing clients, wasn’t there? I think there’s a lot of agencies that do that. You hear people, It was great in the first three months, and then I haven’t spoke to them for six.
Lee:
I think, though, for a lot of agencies, it’s a battle between getting the you get the project in, and then it’s all hands on deck on the project, which is now going to pay for the next month or two. Then as you’re coming near it, you’re all of a sudden like, Oh, crap, we’ve got to find something else now. People are then looking for what’s the next project, whereas what you’re doing here is you’re building a retainer-based business. Assumedly, there is some churn, and you’re then deciding that, Okay, well, I need to dedicate X percentage of my time to sales, but a larger Sales and marketing, but a larger proportion on actually improving the service we’re offering to our existing clients.
Alex:
Yeah, 100 %. And then all that stuff we talked about doing the podcast, content marketing, and everything else in your reputation and stuff, that then drip feeds in. I spent the last few years. I did a lot of like that, 2017, 2018, I think when I first met you, at Youpreneur, I was doing a lot of marketing, like a lot of launch of the podcast. I was doing live broadcasts, every week and pushing a lot, which got to do in the beginning. And then we’re on page one for when people search for mortgage leads as well. So our competitors, well, in Bunny is, I say it without ego, I don’t see people as competition, which sounds like I’ve got an ego. But they sell. So what they do is they set up a fake website, like best mortgage deals, and they sell the data off to brokers and sell the leads at a cost per lead model. It’s a horrendously awful model, whereas we help the clients get their own. I lost my thought while explaining that. Yeah, I can’t remember why I was getting old. That’s so great. I lost my trail of thought.
Lee:
Well, speaking of getting old, you are a busy man, and I’m sure you won’t be offended if I was to mention that I do remember when you were quite a lot larger. Yeah. How were you able to become the fine specimen of a man that you are today? Folks, check out the About Us page. He’s extremely handsome. Whilst being busy What was your business.
Alex:
Well, I suppose it did. It must have been 20… So it was the first Youpreneur I was severely overweight, and then I joined a thing called Man v Fat Football, and that was like a weekly weigh-in thing. And you would score, you would get an extra goal. You would have a football match, but you would get extra goals to start the game with if you had lost weight. So with six aside, and all six of us had lost weight, we’d start 6-nil if they’d not lost any weight. And then you have the scores of the football. That’s brilliant. Yeah, it’s brilliant. So it was like a lead-up. So I was doing that and lost loads. And then when COVID hit and I couldn’t play, I went off the wagon a little bit and then progressively got worse. And then I think we went on holiday last… It was April. And then I got on the scales. I was like, Oh, dear, I’m now larger again than I was when I started the football thing. And then I was like, well, I’m just going to… What works for me is just literally stepping on the scales each day and using the MyFitnessPal, it’s like a calorie counting diary, and then just cutting out carbs.
Alex:
I don’t drink. I just cut alcohol out anyway already, but then it was like just cutting carbs and eating less than what I was doing before. So It’s quite simple, really.
Lee:
Basically, you’re just saying data, data, data. It’s data and everything. Yeah, exactly.
Alex:
I was just popping on the scales. I was like, I lost there. I just got in a routine of… I was enjoying my food. So with the air fryer, I’ve got about seven barbecues. I love making Tandoori chicken, so I’m experimenting with different flavours. I was actually looking forward to my tea because it would be like I have chicken at a different twist on. I I didn’t feel like I was missing out. Then, yes, it was a lot. Then swimming as well. I’m struggling to find time to do the swimming, so I’ve got to organise that next year. But, yeah, it was really It didn’t… Time is an excuse, I think. It was just actually set myself a target, doing that weighing every day, logging the food, which was part of the “Man v Fat” thing. They made us look. We had to show them our food diary for that week. Then you actually No. Then when the competition between your teammates as well, that really helped. I did it in that team environment, but also just on my own. I was like, I didn’t tell anyone I was trying to. Pete in our group was doing really well, and it has He was doing really well, and he was telling us all about it and everything, and I just kept it.
Alex:
I wanted to work out that. I could do it myself outside of a programme, if you know what I mean.
Lee:
Yeah, that’s good. That’s been my experience. I use the Lose It! App For the same reason, I track my calories every day. I create a deficit if I want to lose a few more pounds. It’s good. It means that I don’t snack because it’s so easy to just grab some crisps or something like that. Or if I’m going to snack it, it’s at least an apple or a handful of raw mushrooms, which I know sounds gross, but actually really-
Alex:
Yeah, no, nice, man. They’ll do.
Alex:
When you’ve got it in your head and you’re like, Oh, that’s wasted calories, and you find yourself actually looking at the let and be like, No, because then I can’t. And then you’re in that zone. I think the hard thing is when I’ve stopped now and now not religiously, if then actually, Can I keep on? But I’ve got rid of… I haven’t eaten a chocolate. We’re Christmas, and that’s in my… I think calendar’s the socks one. I’m not missing crisps and chocolate and too much bread and stuff like that. But I don’t think you can’t weigh yourself every day and check your diary every day, you’ve got to break free from that, but learn new good habits. It’s a tricky one.
Lee:
I think, though, over time, you actually end up developing those good habits without having to constantly stare at the data. But you are obviously a very data-driven guy. I know every conversation we have, especially in the mastermind. I’ll ask a question, and then you’ll like, Oh, yeah, I remember when X, Y, Z had happened. And then suddenly you’re sharing a screen with a freaking spreadsheet, which is somehow related to what I’ve just asked. Because you clearly have all of this data.
Alex:
Yeah. Well, we’re constantly like, What is going to drive conversion? And there’s so many little things, and a lot of it, when we’re talking about system one, system two, it’s because system one is not logical. It just creates… It works on pairings. So if something is popular, it is good. If If something is expensive, it should be good quality. Our brain creates all these pairings, but often it makes mistakes. Sometimes if something is expensive, it doesn’t mean it’s good quality. It can be wrong. As humans, we’re fine being wrong in decision making, if those pairings work. So a lot of the time, all the little things we’re doing are not tech-based. It’s not like, How do we get a stupid cost per click? We know if we can increase click to conversion rate by 10%, 5%, then that is worth more than cutting our click costs of where we’re getting the traffic from, et cetera. So a lot of it is around how we make decisions, and that can be transferred It’s not a third onto anything. When we do the mastermind stuff, a lot of it is, If you just did that, that, that, that, I know it will work.
Alex:
Here’s the test that we did. Here’s what we did. Actually, on that, what is more important? Because I’ve often thought that the cost per acquisition That’s what is more important. If I spend £5 on every single click, but it only cost me £200 to pull in £20,000, then I wouldn’t care. Oh, 100%, yeah. Our clients don’t care, don’t know their click cost. We report back on cost per… We have a traffic light system on the lead quality. So green has gone to application, has or will go. So we’ve got cost per green, cost per Amber, which pipeline leads, red, which is just no good, and the uncontactable. But yes, it’s cost per green, cost per acquisition. So we don’t really talk about what cost per lead is. It’s like, What’s our cost per green? How are we going to get our cost per green down? So you’re absolutely right. Yeah, it doesn’t really matter. And that’s, I think, probably why a lot of people spend more on social media advertising than they do on Google, because Google often is more expensive, but then it is way cheaper. Cost per acquisition, yeah.
Lee:
Well, that was actually going to be my next question, so thanks. Social media or Google? I feel like you’re going to say Google.
Alex:
Yeah, for… We were talking earlier about the branding stuff. Then I’ve done stuff on LinkedIn that’s drawn… I think the best leads and the easiest ones are the converter. When they’re looking for what you do, they’ve already decided they need it and they’re just looking for the best option.
Lee:
They’re the best-Web design in insert town here.
Alex:
Yeah, well, then all you need to… Yeah, if you want that, web design in your town, down, get more Google reviews than the other web designer, and the phone will ring, guaranteed. Simple as that. It won’t matter how good your portfolio. A lot of this thing is, you have the best portfolio and lose business. The reason why I niche down, I was doing web design for anyone and everyone, and I lost out on a dentist’s website to a guy that specialised in dentist websites, and they were not very good.
Lee:
Not very good?
Alex:
They were horrific. I was like, What? I couldn’t get my head round. It’s like, Here’s the end product’s not as good. And he’s like, Yeah, but he knows. He’s done it before. He knows that. I was just like, Oh my word, this is like, I need to get out of this thing of trying to create the best-looking because it’s so subjective as well. Website, So they care about safety and outcome. So almost creating a process and a factory of one type of client, you think in your head, I’m going to lose out on all that other business. You’re not. You’re going to win more of that one thing. And it makes a really easy decision for people to do. But yeah, also the local stuff is a lot of the time people search web designer near me or Or whatever it is, plumber near me, whatever, and Google reviews. Or market device. Yeah, market device near me. Our clients that are number one in Google in their area, it’s worth another lead a day for them, which if they were buying leads, would whatever 30 times 50 is.
Lee:
For folks listening in then, sorry, I think I overspoke you, but you don’t mind. You’re pretty chill.
Alex:
No, you’re right. I’m going to get a calculator out because my math is..
Lee:
Oh, excellent.
Lee:
Well, you do that and I’ll ask a question. For the folks listening in, they’re thinking, Well, I know I’ve got loads of amazing clients that I’ve served over the last, I know, X years, but I actually don’t have any Google reviews. My name is Lee Jackson. I don’t have any Google reviews. How do I go and get these reviews? What do I do? Because I’ve got zero.
Alex:
Yeah, just send them.
Lee:
But I’ve got hundreds of clients I bet if you just ask, but ask on WhatsApp so that they open that link on their phone.
Alex:
I hope to make it easy because they’re already logged in, aren’t they? Yeah, absolutely.
Lee:
That was genius.
Alex:
With our… So We have to educate because we get more leads for our clients, more Google reviews they’ve got. So part of our job is educating them how to do it. So they’ve got a point in their transaction where they’re most happy. So market advisors, when they’ve got their client an offer from a lender, it’s boom, ask now. So you obviously want to go back and speak to your old clients and do that.
Lee:
Don’t call the one who hated you.
Alex:
But if you’re then doing… So if they’ve just launched their live, they’re really delighted, the quicker you get in there, because if it’s one of those ones where they’re delighted, it’s happy, it’s what they wanted, but you know it’s not going to work because they’ve made silly decision. But get them when they’re happiest, link on the phone, Boom, done. So make it a process. So it’s a sales process.
Lee:
That’s important. And I’m going to have to go back now and backfill.
Alex:
Well, if you’re doing the WordPress plugins, is that probably in It depends how people are maybe not going to Google WordPress plugin developer near me, are they?
Lee:
Well, I was just thinking more generally just for- But if you are a web designer and you want extra free local business, then 100% is a great way.
Alex:
And then if you’ve got clients who are plumbers or who are… It’s a local, they get them to do it and have that as the first thing people see on the website. It’s like you wouldn’t buy an Amazon product without without checking the reviews. You wouldn’t book a hotel or holiday without checking the reviews. Clients, people are going to check them either way, or you’ve got to build loads of authority and have case studies. So the way I do it is I don’t want to tell everyone who my clients are, but if I want to work with you, I’ve got loads that will tell you how good we are, and I’ll introduce you and you can have conversations.
Lee:
I can do that as well. Yeah, that’s good. Of course, when you were saying things like, You wouldn’t do this and you wouldn’t do I had the DVD music in my head. You remember that?
Alex:
Yeah, you wouldn’t. Yeah, brilliant.
Lee:
Apparently, that music, completely not related, that music was in theory, stolen. It was apparently a sample or something that was done in some country, and they actually didn’t have the proper permission to use that on the ad.
Alex:
That’s amazing.
Lee:
I don’t know if that’s like fake internet story or not, but I heard it on a I hope it’s true. I hope it is, too. That’d be hilarious. It also made it look cool.
Alex:
It did.
Lee:
I’m like, Yeah, I’m going to download stuff. It was cool. Anyway, that was completely not related. But on that note, we have definitely hit time, and you’ve been wonderful. You’ve taught me so much. Selfishly, I have learned so much from my business that I will try and apply. The good thing is you and me are in a mastermind, so you can hold me accountable to actually starting to get some of these things done. Folks, If you are not connected with other people who can keep you sharp, as it were, and keep you on your toes, then Alex did share earlier, that act of accountability is super helpful. He shared that losing all the weight, et cetera, and having the accountability there as well. See, if you can find a local mastermind. There’s even an old podcast I did about how to start your own mastermind. I’ll put a link in the show notes. If you want to do your own and find some peers locally or online, then and then do it that way. So mate, what’s the best way for people to connect with you? And then I’m going to beat you off the show.
Alex:
Well, I’m on Instagram, I’m on LinkedIn and YouTube. I always say, I’m not that interesting if you’re not a mortgage adviser or working finance advice. But if you want to, you can find me on LinkedIn, but you will be bored by because I will not entertain you in any format unless you want.
Lee:
I would actually recommend you follow Alex’s YouTube as well because he puts out some shorts which are absolutely focused on mortgage advisors, but the content of those are absolutely applicable to most businesses, especially local businesses, because your most recent one was about just show up with your face, damn it.
Alex:
Yeah, I mean, that’s one of the… I mean, we talked about the reviews and things. Actually, people trust people as well. So I’ll share a lot of the experiments that we’ve done. So, yeah, don’t hide your face in your team. That would be like a trust thing as well.
Lee:
So go and check Alex’s workout. It’s absolutely fascinating. And even if you’re not into mortgages and stuff like that, you’ll learn from it. Mate, thank you so much. All links are in the show notes. Love you lots, mate, and I’ll chat to you soon.
Alex:
Love you too.
Lee:
Bye. See you.
