Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.
Verbatim text
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Foreigners and design agencies exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now your host, Lee Jackson. Hello, Rissome. Hi, and welcome to the WP Innovator podcast. This is your host, Lee Jackson, and we have another host today. Who’s our other host?
Larissa Meikle:
It’s Larissa Meikle.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It’s Larissa Meikle, and I could just tell a second ago she looked like she was about to have a fit of the giggles. So I think this may be a slightly messy podcast, but let’s do this. Let’s just have a great time. So first of all, Larissa, please say hi to everyone.
Larissa Meikle:
Hello, everyone.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Hi to everyone. And Larissa, tell everyone just a little bit about yourself.
Larissa Meikle:
Well, my name’s larissa Meikle. I’m 18 years old, and this is my first apprenticeship with Lee.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
An apprenticeship. So if you don’t know what an apprenticeship guys in is, sorry, then if you imagine Mickey Mouse, that’s the Sorcerer’s apprentice. Nothing like that. Basically, an apprentice in the UK at least, is someone who will come in. It’s kind of like government subsidized as well. And they’ll come in and train on the job. So rather than going through years and years of university, they’re just chilling out here. You are literally chilling out here.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, exactly. And we spend every day coding. She’ll either watch me code or she’ll go ahead and code herself. And to be honest, I’ll say it now for it to be forever on the Internet. Larissa, mate, you’ve done so well over the last. What’s it been, 10 months? 10 months. So going from someone who can’t code to someone who actually creates complicated modules for visual builders, which, funnily enough, is the subject of today’s podcast, which is visual builders. But, yes, just going on from that, Larissa has learned so much and on.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
On kind of an employment side of things. If people are looking to bring people into their business, sometimes it’s actually really a good idea to get someone who is really hungry to learn, who doesn’t have the experience, so that they can learn on the job and get a real passion for what they’re doing. Because sometimes I found when I’ve employed people in the past who already have the skills, you know, they’ve got their own way of doing things, and it’s tends to not always work out so well. Anyway, enough about bigging up. You, Larissa. Hey, Larissa, tell us what’s been one of your favorite things about working here at Lee Jackson? Dev.
Larissa Meikle:
Oh, that’s a hard one.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Does that mean there is no favorite?
Larissa Meikle:
No, that means there’s too many for me to even put one down.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Put one down.
Larissa Meikle:
Put one down.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Okay, well, try and put one down. Come on. Oh, the Christmas party. That was pretty good.
Larissa Meikle:
That was pretty good.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
We had a Christmas party and your brother came along.
Larissa Meikle:
Yes, he did.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And no one got terribly drunk, which was annoying. I was kind of hoping for, you
Larissa Meikle:
know, like, staggering off to our rooms.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Everyone just like, really funny stories afterwards. But none of that happened. Fast Food Friday. That’s pretty good. So if you don’t know what Fast Food Friday is, that’s where we. We go and eat fast food on Friday. Not all day.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Pig out. Exactly. And I know Larissa’s order off by heart now. Although now and again she likes to change it up a little bit. Yeah. Just to put me on the spot. So. All right, well, you know, there you go.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Couple of bits about us. This is us. We also have Karthik. He’s on the show today, but he is actually coming in an upcoming show. He’s not aware of that, but he is, because we want to talk. We want to talk specifically about version control, et cetera, when doing development. So that’s going to be me, Karthik and Larissa talking through that and what we do on GitHub. So you can look forward to meeting him in the near future.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But what we’ll do is I’m going to hand over to Larissa and I’ll let you introduce the next segment.
Larissa Meikle:
So, Lee, we get a lot of questions from clients about visual builders. Therefore, I’m going to hit you up with some questions.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Don’t hit me. We’re not getting any of that out. That’s brilliant.
Larissa Meikle:
Don’t hit me.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So what questions are you going to ask me? What’s the most common question that we’re asked?
Larissa Meikle:
Why should I implement a visual builder for my site?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Okay. I think we should. Well, no, yeah, just cut that out. No, let’s not. Let’s leave it in. It’s funny. All right, so we are actually going to share some answers. I think that’s where you were going with.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
We’re going to share some answers on a particular subject, and that is visual builders. So you’re going to hit me with the first question. Go on, go for it.
Larissa Meikle:
Why should I implement a visual builder for my site?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
All right, so that is a really good question.
Larissa Meikle:
Thank you.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No, I know. So this is a great question. Why should you implement a visual builder for your website? Well, there’s two main reasons that we would often tell clients the first one is freedom. So that gives freedom to the user. If you think about the WordPress WYSIWYG editor, you love that, don’t you? Yeah, yeah. No, that’s sarcasm. It’s just a text input with a few word style controls. So we’re often getting people calling in saying, well, how do I make the image appear on the right hand side? Or can I have multiple columns of text? Or you name it.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Basically, you pretty much can’t do it. With the WordPress editor, you can start to use shortcodes, but that just gets a complete mess. And you’re kind of straddling the line between a WYSIWYG editor, I, you know, the WordPress editor there, and trying to teach your client code as well, because you’re teaching them short codes, you’re having them kind of almost create little loops of short codes and put short codes within short codes and reminding them that they need to open a short code and end a short code. It’s kind of like you’re trying to give your client that kind of ability to do basic code and they still actually can’t see in the, in the editor what it’s going to look like until they hit update and then go to the front end. So whenever you’re looking at a really cool theme that looks amazing and they’re like, we’ve got all these shortcodes included, probably not a good thing, I would recommend, really a Visual builder. So that’s a visual Builder means you’re building it in the front end of the website, you’re seeing it live, you’re editing the text live in the site, you can resize and see things change. That is why the main reason why we would recommend a Visual builder, but the second one is actually then the flexibility of design. So saying what we just talked about there, the idea of people wrapping things up in short codes, you can’t see anything, you can’t really experiment without hitting the update button all the time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Whereas with the Visual Builder, you’re seeing things live. It’s quick and you can then experiment with different layouts, different styles of design. And it’s also really super good as well for making landing pages and stuff like that. So that’s kind of it in a nutshell. Why should I implement a Visual Builder? I guess there is another one. Why shouldn’t I implement a Visual builder? And that would be simply if you have a site which is five pages of static content and a blog, and all you’re doing is filling in A blog post, et cetera, each and every day or week or whatever, then there’s probably absolutely no need for a visual builder. If the client just wants something simple, they just want to fill something in. So I just thought I’d throw that in there.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So, Larissa, what other questions do we often get asked?
Larissa Meikle:
We also get asked, am I not doing myself out of a job using a visual builder?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So you mean like removing the coder?
Larissa Meikle:
Yes.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. It’s a good one. So I’m not prepared. I don’t know what these questions are. Larissa has put these down. Thank you. Larissa has put these down. And I’m just ad libbing as we go.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So am I not doing myself out of a job? Well, no. So here’s my take on things. You’ve got this visual builder. You’re giving your client the ability to lay out content, but they do still need to go through the design process and that’s where, you know, the designer comes in. Because clients, frankly, are not designers. I mean, I’m. I’m a developer. I kind of.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m getting there on the design. I’ve got a bit of an eye for design. But most clients, I mean, you’re talking about you’re doing a website for an accountant. That accountant is not going to be a designer as such. They’re not going to take your visual builder and start a whole design business because they’re an accountant. They’re not a designer. They don’t have an eye for the design. What you’re doing by giving them a visual builder is giving them the tools to have flexible content on their site.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But they’ve still had to go through that design process with you and you’ve established the look and the feel and the style that they should go for. So, yeah, I don’t think it’s doing yourself out of a job. Perhaps it’s removing a whole chunk of code that you may have had to have done in the past. But I reckon we can unpack that again later. Let’s just put a note down. Let’s talk about kind of keeping people on brand later, if you’ve not already got that one. So. All right, gone.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Hit me with another one.
Larissa Meikle:
Are visual builders cheating?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Are visual builders cheating? It depends who finds out. No. Short answer. Well, I guess you’re delivering a website that you know. Yeah. You’re delivering a website that people are going to use. It’s going to do what it says on the tin. It’s going to generate leads.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Leads. It’s going to tell people about that company, you’re simply using the tools that are available to you and potentially even providing those tools as well to the client to help them as well. So all you’re doing is using the tools that are available to provide a website. I guess, though, the only thing that you should consider is the technical ability to support. So if you think about that accountant I talked about, if that accountant was like, oh, this visual build is amazing, I’m going to pretend to be a design agency. That accountant doesn’t necessarily have the technical knowledge of WordPress or of the Visual Builder and, you know, really isn’t in a place to be delivering that sort of business without either that experience or hiring someone or having some sort of, you know, agreement with some third party where they can actually support the website, you know, WordPress, the hosting, the Visual Builder, that sort of thing as well. So I don’t think it’s cheating because you’re using tools available, you’re still providing the value, you’re still providing the expertise, your design, you’re still providing something that does the job for the client. It actually gives them extra freedom as well, so it adds more value.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And obviously, like I said, the only thing I think people should consider, which is where the cheating aspect might come from or feel like it comes from, is just that idea of not having the background technical knowledge to offer the support. And I think some agencies in the past as well have simply gone ahead and bought themes and changed a few things, etcetera, to deliver websites. Say something from ThemeForest, but again, they’ve lacked that ability to actually offer that support or have the technical know how as well. So I guess that’s the only thing I’d warn people against.
Larissa Meikle:
Good answer.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Thank you.
Larissa Meikle:
I like that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I like it too.
Larissa Meikle:
Okay, next question then. What Visual Builder should I be looking at?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, I can’t really, I don’t think any of us, either of us, sorry, can offer a very unbiased opinion here. What would you recommend?
Larissa Meikle:
Big fat of Beaver Builder.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Really big fans of Beaver Builder and they were like a few episodes ago, we’ve got an episode of Beaver Builder. Guys, they are freaking brilliant. And I’m pretty sure they promised to come back on the podcast, so I’m gonna take them up on that. All right, so Beaver Builder, best name ever. Makes all the schoolboys giggle. And it’s by three guys out in. I think it’s California. I think they are, yeah, California.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And it’s essentially, it’s just so flipping easy to use. But the beauty of it is is it’s got the ability to add modules so we can create all sorts of our own modules that then can be dragged into the page by our clients. So the two things we like about it is obviously A, it’s easy to use and B, we can customize it really, really heavily, adding all of our own stuff in there to provide a really good client experience. So Beaver Builder is our top recommendation. It’s fast, it’s easy to use, there’s really good support. It’s only relatively new, it’s been about a year out there. So if you want to go check out the absolute basic version, you can head on over to WordPress.org and you can see the free version they give, which gives you a very limited. It gives you the rows and columns.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s great. And it also gives the ability to drag in text, images, videos and stuff like that, a few of the basic stuff. And then obviously the pay for version gives you all of the other good stuff that you would want, like tabs and WordPress widgets. Yeah, all the widget. Yeah, you can drag widgets in. All sorts of stuff that you would, you know, you’d want to be able to do. I’m going to also throw in a visual Builder that I would not recommend and that would be Visual Composer. Yeah, sorry if you are a fan, but unfortunately we have inherited sites in the past that have had visual composers and it’s, I mean it has evolved over time and I think obviously they’ve noticed that Beaver Builder is pretty freaking awesome and they’re doing a lot of the front end editing stuff as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But it’s certainly a product that has become really bloated over time. It can be quite slow and we found most of our clients, you know, who we’ve inherited, who have those websites struggle themselves to actually understand how to use Visual Composer itself. There’s quite a lot of options. It’s not that obvious, especially when you’re editing it in the back end because all you’re looking at are blocks which you then need to click on and pops open a window. Yeah, so there’s, there’s a bit of recommendations to not go in the Visual Composer direction from our own experience. That’s not to say that other people might not love it and if you do, that is awesome. We’re not judging you, we just love Beaver Builder for what it’s all about. Have I talked enough about.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’ve said Beaver Builder a lot in the last. So, yeah, so a short answer, but that would make for a very long Podcast would be Beaver Builder. Thank you, Larissa, for that question. No worries, no worries.
Larissa Meikle:
Okay, next question. How do I stop the client from ruining the website?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Ruining the website?
Larissa Meikle:
Yes.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
What do you mean?
Larissa Meikle:
Like, because they’ve got a lot of access to dragging in loads of modules, changing up their design and everything.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
How do we stop them from. What do you do every day?
Larissa Meikle:
Well, I make my own modules based on their designs.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
This is true. So you can stop the client ruining the site, first of all, by creating the specific modules you want them to use. So that’s. If you want to create like a little team grid, then you create that module in Beaver Builder and then they can drag that in. So that, that’s one thing, but then the also thing, which I think is very important, is you limit what they can do. So in Beaver Builder, and I’m talking this specifically on Beaver Builder, I believe you can build components for other ones like Visual Composer, if you’re still using that. And think the Thrive Content Builder, they said they were going to allow for modules as well. But also what I would say with any Visual Builder is limit what people can do.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So Beaver Builder is absolutely stacked full of things you can drag into the page. So is Visual Composer. And essentially there’s just too much stuff. There’s too many things that a client can use. And if you give a client too much fleet freedom, sorry, and flexibility, you’re going to end up with comic sans, red, 46 pixels centered with an image of a cat or something like that, and maybe even an animated gif of email kind of. And maybe even a background of animated stars or something. I’m kind of. You won’t even remember this, but this is like websites 15 years ago or something like that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But anyway, yeah, so what you need to do is just kind of rip out all of that stuff that they’re not going to use. You know, don’t give them the accordion if they’re not going to have a use for the accordion, or they’re not going to understand how to use the accordion, etc. And the great thing, this is like an infomercial now for Beaver Builder, isn’t it? The great thing about Beaver Builder is there is a cool little settings panel in there as the admin, where you can uncheck check all of the modules that you don’t want people to be dragging in. You know, again, things like an accordion that can get overused, it may not necessarily be needed, etc. So I’d recommend either making your own modules for people to drag in or, and, or combined removing all of those extra things that people are not going
Larissa Meikle:
to use, like the templates as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yes, actually that’s a good point. So in Beaver Builder they do have all these pop up templates that come up as well that people can use as an option, but that’s potentially going to confuse your client. And again, some of those templates won’t necessarily match what you want to do. So yes, I would say disable those as well. Very good point, Larissa.
Larissa Meikle:
Thank you.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No worries. I think you should answer the next. No, I’m joking.
Larissa Meikle:
It’s time for the big question now.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Which? Well, the big question.
Larissa Meikle:
The big question, how do we keep the client on brand?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
On brand. Oh, that’s a big question. So as you’re aware, most people listening are design agencies. We have designers, web designers around the world. And I know, I get this question quite a lot, so I know you get it quite a lot. I’ve heard you answering it on the phone a few times. And this is a big one. I talked about previously about making specific modules.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So I guess the idea is you create a design in Photoshop or whatever, your design tool of choices, and you will create essentially reusable elements. So you might have a team page grid, you might have a post grid, so like a grid of latest posts, you might have maybe a nicely styled tab structure with call to action buttons in each tab or whatever. But you’ve established all of these sorts of design elements inside of your Photoshop design and they look freaking amazing. If you were then to then transport all of that into a website that has a super flexible Beaver Builder installation or whatever visual builder you’re going to use, then you know your client’s going to butcher it and it’s going to look awful and you’re not going to have a website that you’re really proud of. And that’s happened to us in the past. We’ve received amazing designs, we’ve converted those designs, they look amazing in a WordPress theme. It goes over to the client and then unfortunately the client just goes ahead and does all sorts of awful stuff, you know, and, and then we, we don’t want to show it off anymore. So this is such a huge question.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, right. It’s the big one, isn’t it? It is the big one. So, yes, create those designs. You’ve done those blocks, you’ve done. Mirror those as modules for whichever composer you’re using. Let’s just talk for the rest of this show about Beaver Builder. So in Beaver Builder, you can Create modules. And Larissa, you do that all the time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
She’ll convert an element from a Photoshop file into beautiful HTML and css, no problem. And then she will wrap that up into a Beaver Builder module with a nice and descriptive name and a little preview image as well, so that when people mouse over, they can see what it is they’re about to drag in. And within that as well, she’ll add in all the custom fields that are needed. So what that’s doing is you drag in the element, you fill in the fields, the data you need and you then press ok. And it comes out looking exactly as you’ve designed, but you’ve still given the client the ability to drag that element into the page and to display it wherever they want. So they’ve got the freedom and the flexibility of a visual composer, whilst they are being kind of restricted, if that’s the right word, to the brand. So that’s kind of one of the first things make modules. The other thing is, let’s borrow from the previous question, limit what they can do.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So totally we’re going to disable all of the default Beaver Builder stuff that people do not need or that are definitely not going to match the brand. So, for example, if we designed our own Call to Action grid or box, then we’re certainly not going to use the default one inside of Beaver Builder. So we’re just going to disable that one flat out as well. So that’s borrowing that one, I guess. Then there’s a few other ways we can do this. You mentioned templates. So in Beaver Builder you can create your own templates. So as you’re, you know, building up a page of content, you can then save that page as a template that is then reusable.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So you could then create one that’s like a standard page layout. You could create an About Us page layout, maybe a team page layout, a shop layout, whatever, all sorts of different layouts. So that when your client then goes to create a new page, they can select which layout they want to use and then they just go ahead and fill in the blanks and they can still drag in a few other elements, etc. But it’s more teaching your client to use the layouts and the designs from the Visual builder that you have, you have laid out for them. You know, explaining that you guys know what works, you’re good at ux, you’re good at design, and this is probably the best practice. So use this as your page template, use this as your blog template, etc. So yeah, definitely utilizing the templates feature inside of Beaver Builder. And again, I’m not sure if that’s available in other visual builders, but certainly have a look at that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Another thing I would recommend you do is simply provide really clear brand guidelines. So let’s talk about the importance of things like colors, fonts, you know, font padding, I don’t know, spacing between images, all of those really important things, how to use the logo, image sizes, etc. All those things is really important, I think, to hand over a clear brand guideline to the, to the customer and kind of on that, teach the client the benefits of sticking with that brand guideline and the benefits of keeping on brand with their website. I mean, I’ve seen so many companies in the past will have like a logo that they use on their website, but then the logo on their flyers is completely different. I never get why people do that. So, you know, and maybe that their brand on the website is all blue and the flyer itself is green. That’s another thing that totally throws me. But anyway, we should have like a segment, shouldn’t we? What grinds my gears anyway, sorry, back on point.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So teaching them the benefit to them to look consistent, to have that consistent look and feel throughout their site, throughout their literature, even in their emails, et cetera. So, you know, keeping those color schemes, keeping those images, et cetera. A lot of it is about, you know, teaching, helping them see the value of staying on the brand, that amazing brand that you’ve helped develop with them and them keeping on track with that brand. So yeah, there are things you can do, obviously, creating your own modules, restricting what they can do, etc. Creating pre laid out templates to help guide them, etc. But even if you do all that without them buying into the idea of what the brand is about and the idea of consistency, then you may be fighting an uphill battle without that. That would, that would be my, my top recommendations. That’s a blog post.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think, I think we can make a few blog posts out of these. This is like a blog post series, isn’t it? So what have we covered then? Let’s have a look at your notes. All right, so why should I implement a visual builder for my site? So we’ve talked about that as freedom to the client, flexibility, design. That’s definitely a blog post. We could do a blog post on that. Am I doing myself out of a job? No, clients aren’t designers. Are visual builders cheating? No. This should have been a short podcast.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
If we did it like this, wouldn’t it? No, because you are delivering a website. You’re delivering what you’re saying you’re going to do. I think I mentioned denied, though. Make sure you know how to support it at least. What visual builder should I be looking at? I think we gave you a very unbiased opinion about Beaver Builder links in the show notes unashamedly. It’s an affiliate link, you know, if you don’t want to use that link, just go be wpbeaverbuilder.com how do I stop the client ruining the website? We’ve talked about that, about limiting what they do and making some modules or removing some of the more complex things. And then the big one that you said you’re going to wrap up with, which is how do we keep a client on brand? So we’ve got. We’ve talked about creating specific modules.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Again, limiting stuff, but also just getting people to buy in to the brand guidelines and the vision and consistency. That’s freaking awesome.
Larissa Meikle:
It is.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think we’ve been super productive today. So, Larissa, give us some top recommendations for some plugins for Beaver Builder that help expand it to the next level.
Larissa Meikle:
Beaver Lodge.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Beaver Lodge. Good. Cool. So, Beaver Lodge. Who’s that? John, isn’t it? John Mather from Australia.
Larissa Meikle:
Struth.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Struth, mate. So he talks Australian and drinks Australian. Hopefully Fosters won’t sue me for that one. And yeah, he’s built an amazing product called beaverlodge. There’s going to be a link in the show notes based on this conversation right now. And what he’s created is a whole slew of different drag and drop options for Beaver Builder itself, like image galleries and tabs, menu systems. I think he’s got a cool login page, etc. All sorts of stuff that just really extend what you can do with Beaver Builder.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And the cool thing is as well, it actually works with the free version of Beaver Builder, which you can find on the WordPress plugin repository. That’s very American. That was repository, yeah. Which kind of blew my mind. Also, just from memory, John is doing well by the. Yeah, he’s. It should be in a few. Couple of days time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think he’s doing a couple of lessons online on how to build Beaver Builder modules. He’s doing two different types of modules, so if they haven’t happened already, I’ll make sure those go in the show notes as well. So that’s a good call. All right. I’m going to recommend one now as well. Yeah, and that’s. That’s what a recommendation from each of us.
Larissa Meikle:
Yeah, yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Right. What shall I write? Beaver Tunnels. So this is a relatively new plugin and the idea with Beaver Tunnel is it will allow you to consistently display, that’s a big word, a design that you’ve done in Beaver Builder in all sorts of places. So for example, you could design in the Beaver Builder a really good looking header with navigation menu and then with Beaver Tunnels, you simply hook into the header. So maybe you’d use the WPHEAD hook or something along those lines. Actually, you wouldn’t use that. That’s terrible. That appears in.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Oh no, you definitely would not use that. Yeah, ignore me there. This is live and unedited. Do not use that. But anyway, there’s some hooks that would appear hopefully in your theme if it’s been built well, which will allow you to hook into and then display your beautifully designed header. And the same with a footer. But also there’s a whole load of logic in there as well. So you can limit what people see depending on their user role.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So that means you can create some really attractive looking membership sites, which kind of blew my mind. But also you can, because you can use any hook. You could have certain really gorgeous call to actions or subscription boxes appearing, say on your blog posts or on your WooCommerce shopping cart wherever you want it to appear. Really, it’s quite incredible. So we’ll put a link over to Beaver Tunnels as well in there. So that’s. I guess that’s a big shout out. This entire episode really is like a glorified shout out to Beaver Builder, Beaver Lodge and Beaver Tunnels, which is awesome.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
The Three Beavers. Whoa, that’s deep. Kind of mind blown now. So there you go, guys. That has been the Visual Builders question mark. I wonder how you say it, Visual Builders, because that’s what our artwork says with a big exclamation mark on it. No question mark on it. Got that right.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That has been the Beaver Builders. No, no, it’s Visual Builders episode with Lee and Larissa where we’ve just unpacked for you a whole load of questions that people ask us. And the reason why we made this podcast was obviously to educate you, but also to send our clients so that when they start asking us about Visual Builders, we’re going to say, from now on, go ahead and listen to episode 28 of the WP Innovator podcast and all will be revealed. And then hopefully they’ll come back to us and say, right, let’s crack on with this. So head on over to leejacksondev.com Episode 28 for the show notes. You’ll also see in there a link to the Facebook group. Why don’t you come onto the Facebook group with us and join in the conversation about Visual Builders. Let’s find out what visual builders you are using.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Let’s talk about Visual Composer and if I’m wrong about it, tell me I’m wrong and tell me why. And let’s. Let’s talk about that. Did I say visual? I did say Visual Composer. Yeah.
Larissa Meikle:
Good.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You were looking at me. Gone out for a minute. Yeah. So let’s have a conversation. Also, other conversations that are going on at the moment over in the Facebook group include cats. Dan put a picture of a cat up. That was great. Awesome.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And then also we have a good discussion going on about hosting. So people are sharing their experience of WordPress hosting, who they’d recommend. And there’s another thread going on about contracts as well. So what people would send to their clients, contract templates people might use. So head on over leejacksondev.com group that will redirect you to the Facebook group or type in WP Innovator in to Facebook and you’ll be able to find the. The Facebook group there. It’s private as well, so you can say whatever you want. Your clients are not going to see.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Unless you add your clients in, of course. Alrighty. Well, that’s goodbye from me.
Larissa Meikle:
And from me.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And from her. Yes, indeed. Thanks, guys. Have an awesome day. And don’t forget. What do I usually say?
Larissa Meikle:
I’ve just gone blind. I’ve heard some.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Keep innovating. Let’s take two. And that’s it from me. And that’s it for her. And don’t forget, keep innovating. That was awesome. Well, I’m proud of you.
Larissa Meikle:
That was really high pitch.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah, proud of you. Reminds me of that Family Guy episode.
Larissa Meikle:
It was a good episode.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That was a good episode. He picked his nose and then he’s
Larissa Meikle:
got to do that on my part of me all the time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Proud of you. Oh, we’re still recording.
Larissa Meikle:
Oh, no.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Are you still listening? This is a private conversation. Don’t forget, head on over to leejacksondev.com group and you can join the conversation. Ha. Did you see that segue?
Larissa Meikle:
That was.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That was epic. All right, guys, thanks for listening. Guess what? We’ve got Tim Page next week. That’s the tim page from LeadPages. Yeah, I managed to get an interview with him. I’m as long as he turns up. That’s gonna be this afternoon, so you. I know.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So you can look forward to that next week. I can’t wait. And let’s just leave it at that. Have a good one. Bye.
Larissa Meikle:
Bye.
