Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.
Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the WP Innovator Podcast, the podcast for web designers and design agencies, exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now your host, Lee Jackson.
Lee:
Welcome to episode number 104 of the WP Innovator Podcast. This is your host, Lee Jackson, or at least it was the last time I checked. Just pinched myself. Yep, I’m still here. We’re all good.
Right, guys, on today’s episode, we have Phillis Benson on the show, and she’s going to be sharing the do’s and don’ts that she has learned when she was starting up her business, and she shares what works for her. It’s a brilliant episode, and I have to apologize to Phillis because I did say a certain word, and if you listen carefully, you can kind of hear her struggling not to say it throughout the rest of the episode. But Phillis is an amazing sport, and we had a really good laugh. She’s a wonderful person. So definitely recommend you come into the Facebook group. It’s wpinnovator.com forward slash group because Phillis is rocking and rolling in there as well. So you can always connect with her, chat with her, a really wonderful person. So enjoy the show. I should say sit back, relax, enjoy the ride, and please keep your arms and legs in the vehicle at all times.
Lee:
Welcome, and you are joining a conversation today here with me, Lee Jackson, and Phillis Benson from Virtual Partner. Phillis, how are you today?
Phillis:
I’m fantastic. How are you doing?
Lee:
Well, I’m all right, and we kind of already know how each other are, aren’t we? Because we’re pretending that we’ve only just started talking. I think we’ve been chatting for the last like 15 minutes before we even recorded the podcast, just having a wonderful time.
Phillis:
Oh, I know. It’s fun to talk with folks that you’ve met in different high-end groups on Facebook and in our WordPress community.
Lee:
Totally. And we’re a member of quite a lot of the same groups as well, which is awesome. And I didn’t really realize until I went and did a little bit of research just to ensure I understood kind of the full breadth of what you’re involved in. And then I started spotting you everywhere. Oh, look, she’s in the same group over here as well. And oh, she’s over here too.
Phillis:
I feel like the WordPress community is kind of a small community, even though we’re large, if that makes sense. We all kind of know each other, which is really nice.
Lee:
Exactly. I call it, you know, we’re in a small world with everybody that we know, because there’s a lot of, it’s not even six degrees of separation. It’s more like two or three.
Phillis:
Or even one most of the time, I think.
Lee:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Especially for us veterans. You know, we’ve been in the WordPress business for quite a while now and have, you know, helped with the growth and, you know, bringing in, educating new folks in the business and educating our clients.
Lee:
Exactly. And when you say as veterans, do you literally remember the first version of WordPress?
Phillis:
I do. And the reason is, is I went back to university back in 1997 and started out before WordPress was even a thing or blogging or social media. And I was doing all the coding and I learned Macromedia, which in turn, you know, Disney bought it out. And, you know, that’s where we have all the Pixlr things. So, yeah, yeah, I kind of grew up with it, ignored it for a while and then became an adapter of it.
Lee:
And adapter. That’s a good way of saying it. I think that’s exactly how I started, adapting and then learning to actually produce code and do things with it as well.
Lee:
So, well, I mean, this was kind of a random intro. This was more like a continuation of our earlier conversation. I should have just hit record way earlier than this. But just for the people who don’t know who you are, first of all, Phillis did win the guest Lee’s middle name competition. So congratulations. And her prize was to get on the show. Although, to be honest, I was actually going to approach you. You were already on my list of people to approach to come onto the show. So, hey, what the heck. But, yeah. So thanks for being on the show. But just let us know a little bit about who you are. Obviously, you’re from Virtual Partner. Guys, there are always links in the show notes as well. Don’t forget, you can go ahead and find out where Phillis is from. But, Phillis, could you just tell us a little bit about you, favorite color, your favorite tipple, and a bit about your business?
Phillis:
Oh, excellent. My name is Phillis, as you’ve heard. And I created Virtual Partner back in kind of 2005 as being a military spouse and traveling. And it’s really hard to hold down jobs, even though I have credentials as a project manager with different things. And so I always found technology intriguing. And that’s, you know, kind of like, oh, I can make some money off of that. And it really was not a WordPress service, but more of an online business manager situation, which I did do the certification and kind of birthed Virtual Partner.
And then it’s since morphed because I learned knee-deep WordPress and the back-end HTML, CSS, and kind of figured that my clients that I like to work with are people who have WordPress websites because it was easier for me to manage versus, you know, the different platforms that were in the past and still are.
And so I went ahead and created Virtual Partner, which again, it was more of a concierge, care plans, high-end support at conferences. And then I started really loving all the new WordPress platforms that were coming out and spun off Virtual Partner web design. So I do, it’s the same company, but it’s just easier for folks to find me and get the exact service that they need. So that’s kind of in a nutshell.
Lee:
You did forget the favorite color.
Phillis:
Oh, favorite color. Green, blue-green.
Lee:
Blue-green. Is that more like a teal then?
Phillis:
It is. Yeah.
Lee:
I love teal.
Phillis:
There’s so many shades. Yeah, I do too. It just, green just reminds me of growth, I guess. Summer, sunshine.
Lee:
Yeah, I like that. I’m also a big pink fan as well. I think teal and pink go together so well.
Phillis:
Oh, yeah.
Lee:
Yeah. In fact, people can tell from my brand. It’s everywhere. I do have this big thing for pink as well. But it’s not about me. Now, Virtual Partner, I’m interested in this concierge thing because, you know, concierge isn’t a language that most people would associate with a WordPress business. Can you unpack that a little bit more and tell us what that’s all about? What is a concierge service?
Phillis:
Oh, exactly. Yeah. I wanted to come up with, you know, kind of a catchphrase that was a little different than, you know, monthly retainer, monthly support.
So, what I have, and this is my core business on the Virtual Partner side. The concierge is if you came to me and wanted somebody to basically run your online business for you so you could actually, you know, do what you love to do best, you know, build your business, build your client base, but not worry about the technology piece.
So, clients will come into my funnel with basically a block of time because we need to figure out, you know, how your business runs. I start creating processes and procedures because some clients don’t have a VA yet or they already have a team and they’re just kind of all over the place.
So, that’s the number one task that we do as a concierge is we kind of tighten your business up.
Then, after that, I will quote a price based on how many hours per month I think we could actually be helping you grow your business.
And, again, keeping all the technology pieces tight, keeping your website up to date, keeping, you know, Infusionsoft, ActiveCampaign, MailChimp, you know, whatever your CRM is.
And then that’s when I roll you into the actual concierge piece. And it’s just an ongoing, you pay a flat fee a month. We have a whole client portal set up for you, a whole support desk and weekly or monthly meetings with you and your team.
So, it’s pretty successful, but concierge just kind of seem to up-level versus just saying, you know, retain our clients.
Lee:
I like it. It kind of gives a feeling of premium and that you are going to get really looked after with your online business here.
So, you say — so, I’m trying to think here. This could be a bricks-and-mortar business who do not necessarily have the online or technical experience, but you would come in and almost be like the digital partner or the head of digital for that business.
You would, depending on the package, even help them with content as well for their website and help them with their strategies, as it were, for online marketing campaigns. I don’t know, be their email campaigns, be their landing pages, social media.
Is it kind of that whole wide range beyond just the standard retainer? Because standard retainer, I’m always thinking, is general updates and maybe some additions of content, you know, a bit like the old WP Curve model.
Phillis:
Exactly. Yeah. The standard updates are on my care plan, which I have, you know, basic, the middle, and then the e-commerce one.
So, that’s for folks who don’t necessarily need a virtual partner, you know, a silent partner that you work with monthly.
So, it is a premium. And I do have a couple clients who are brick-and-mortar, and I just run the online piece of it and run their team. And I do have my own team members that we bring into the fold as needed.
And I do have clients who are kind of in the life coaching arena to where they have very specific launches and live events to where I help and work with their event team as well.
And then just manage their whole client care piece because they have clients that need looked after. And it’s whether they have a help desk and use my help desk or if they have, you know, their own help desk with that.
I’m just in there monitoring and making sure that all the team members are, you know, following the instructions and the protocols. And, you know, seriously, it’s a lot of fun. It’s like, you know, running a brick-and-mortar business, but it’s all online.
And when we can meet up at different events and stuff, it’s really kind of fun to meet all the other team members as well.
So it’s the new age of running a business, I think.
Lee:
It really is. And do you have an office, like, at home as well so you can do everything from home?
Phillis:
I do. I have a private office that I have set up with a couple computers and screens and everything. And then my mobile office is my MacBook Pro that I take and do meet clients in person as necessary, whether they’re local or we fly out to an event and spend a couple strategy days, you know, planning out there next year.
Lee:
I feel like I want to be a client of yours. This sounds really nice.
I want someone to, like, give me a concierge level of support and help with our website because I always feel like we’re doing everybody else’s. And, you know, you feel like you don’t even get time to do your own half the time.
I can keep the podcast updated, but I do struggle with our own site. And even having a strategy, I am very reactive. I have no real plan. People may be shocked. I run this podcast, but I have no plan. I’m just, like, scattergun, band-aid, oh, crap, I better do that sort of hodget and splodget guy.
Phillis:
Well, to be honest, it took me five years to actually update my own websites. And it’s still a work in progress. But what is that? The cobbler’s children have no shoes type of thing? Because we are, you know, our love is to help and support other people, you know, grow their businesses and, you know, be everything we can for them. And then it’s like, oh, my gosh, you know, I don’t have anybody supporting me.
And so I actually have my developer create some templates for me. And I went ahead and built the website because I love building websites. And then I have a copywriter, a content writer, and I had her go through and update all my content.
And I actually, on the one website, Virtual Partner, deleted probably 54 pages of just old stuff, you know, outdated. And it just didn’t make sense anymore. And, you know, so we did a full house cleaning. And, you know, and I let my dev be the project manager over me. So that was kind of a switch of roles. And it was really enlightening. It was really great.
So, yeah, we all need help.
Lee:
I like the idea of getting your dev to be the project manager of you. We’re kind of slowly shifting internally here where Larissa has been picking me up on things, making sure that I’m doing things. And I’ve been feeling bad about that. But then the way you’ve just described the project manager, actually, maybe we should set up some sort of official relationship here with me and Larissa where she actually is in control of a few things.
She’s way more organized than I am because I’m always in demand with lots of different people, meetings, etc., or doing something. I kind of like the idea of having someone just telling me what to do a few times.
Phillis:
Oh, exactly. And that’s part of the key is, you know, we each have very specific talents. And one of mine happens to be organization.
You know, you would probably laugh if you saw my desktop because it’s so clean. I just have very specific folders on there. It’s not all cluttered. My Dropbox is clean. You know, it’s just all my clients’ websites, including mine, I have folders for their pages and their images so they can be found quickly so you don’t have to search through stuff. And it’s, you know, I enjoy doing that.
And, you know, as far as like what you do, you know, you’re creating content all the time and you’re doing podcasts. And that’s just not something, you know, that I’ve even thought I would want to do. And, you know, so I would hire somebody like you. Can you set me up and manage my podcast and, you know, help me with these very specific, you know, pieces of content creation?
And it’s, it just works, you know, it really does.
Lee:
And there’s a lesson in that, isn’t there, of being able to get people who have the necessary skills to do those things rather than trying to do everything yourself. You know, do the stuff you’re passionate about and allow those with the skills to do what they do.
Phillis:
Well, and one of the key pieces, and I’ve had to learn this this past couple years, and this has to do with a group that you and I are in, WP Elevation.
And what, one of the biggest takeaways that I’ve learned in the past two years is if I have my dev or my content writer or, you know, whomever I’m working with, you know, the graphic designer, write out what their processes are versus me telling them how to do things within means. Because there are certain things that, you know, I have to have done a very specific way for each client. But it’s like, it’s enlightening because then I’m like, oh, I thought you knew we wanted to do it this way. Or, oh, I had no idea this is the extra information or support that you needed from me to get from the client.
So, it’s a collaborated effort. And the end product, you know, once you start going, you know, your team or anybody’s team, it’s just, it’s a living, breathing document that, you know, everybody has a piece of it. They own it. And anytime there’s changes, you know, with the way WordPress changes every so often, you know, it’s whoever is in charge of that piece gets to update their own. And then we’re all kind of joint project managers, you know, in the long run.
Lee:
That’s beautiful. I’m enjoying this. I feel like I’m getting really good business advice right now. I do remember reading up on that on WP Elevation. We’ve been, was members years ago. And then we’ve only just rejoined in the last couple of months, which has been awesome because Larissa is actually going through the course herself. And I’m doing the course kind of from scratch again, really just to remind myself and to sharpen my own brain because you learn all this stuff. And over time you do forget it and you only apply what you remember. And I’ve only really been applying what I remember rather than actually, you know, going through it and being constantly immersed in it. So that’s something we’ve been doing regularly.
Now, when you started Virtual Partners, I’m interested, a lot of people who listen to the show are kind of still in the early days of evolving their business and working out how to attract clients, etc. How did you, first of all, attract clients and how did you discover your niche? That’s kind of two questions. You can tackle them however you want.
Phillis:
Oh, absolutely. Well, I’m, my personality is totally a social media personality. So I’ve been active in Facebook when it was only available to university students. And so I’ve kind of grown with that and developed a very nice following, not necessarily folks who have online businesses, but just as a persona, I guess, or not, not a personality. But, you know, people know me, they know my business.
So one of the ways I get referrals is just somebody that’s, you know, either in person or in another group or at an event and they’re looking for, you know, a new website or somebody to do strategies and help them, you know, start their own online business. They’re like, oh, I know, I know this person. So that’s a connection right there.
The other connections that I have are I’m very active and very free about giving sound thoughts, suggestions, not necessarily advice in these different groups. I mean, so, you know, you and I are in WP Elevation, which is a paid mastermind community. I’m also in a couple paid Infusionsoft communities and I get lots of referrals from there. And then I get referrals from all my past and existing clients as well.
It’s I think it’s because you show up. And again, you know, I give very sound suggestions and I offer, you know, if you need to get on a Skype call for 20, 30 minutes, let’s take a peek at what you’re doing type of thing. And it just it just spins off.
And so I have never, you know, again, going back to the ugly old websites, I never needed to have a good website until now because folks find me just through networking and referrals. And it’s keeps me busy, keeps my team busy as well.
So I think just showing up, you know, and, you know, and another caveat is, you know, I keep up with my education on everything that’s going on in the online business community as well.
Lee:
And I can vouch for that because I’ve seen how many of the courses you’ve completed. You’ve got like, haven’t you done pretty much everything in WP Elevation? So you’ve got every every badge and you’ve also got several Infusionsoft badges as well.
Phillis:
Yes.
Lee:
Digital marketing.
Phillis:
Yeah, that’s right.
Lee:
Now Infusionsoft is something that I really wanted to talk to you as well about. WordPress is phenomenally successful. It powers so much of the Internet. And there are online brands, personalities and businesses that obviously rely heavily on WordPress. But Infusionsoft with regards to a CRM / automation / marketing platform, because it pretty much does everything, I think, apart from open a can, is also, you know, super popular. So how does your relationship with the two products look like when you’re working with them? How do you service clients with both Infusionsoft and WordPress?
Phillis:
Okay. Typically, the client will be on a block of time that, you know, we just use as needed. And it’s very specific, either hooking stuff up from their Infusionsoft campaigns into their WordPress, or it’s going in and cleaning up Infusionsoft campaigns and tagging. That’s someone set up and they didn’t really know the proper way to do it. So I’m really known as somebody who cleans stuff up.
And my retainer clients at this point all but to have Infusionsoft applications. So it’s, you know, I’m kind of their go-to for both their WordPress and Infusionsoft as well.
And, you know, I don’t want to dismiss this. ActiveCampaign is a very good application for folks who aren’t quite ready for Infusionsoft as well. And that’s a service I provide. And I build your ActiveCampaign and even Drip or ConvertKit campaigns and tagging to grow you into Infusionsoft. So when you do have that transition, it’s very clean and it’s easy for me to train your VA or, you know, your project manager. And, you know, here’s the best practices as we grow your business with you.
Lee:
Now, Infusionsoft, I’ve often heard termed as Confusionsoft.
Phillis:
Yes.
Lee:
Because it’s complicated and you’ve got to get to know it, etc. You know, we’re all growing agencies or freelancers. What benefits would Infusionsoft give to me as an agency? Because right now I’m perfectly happy with my Zoho CRM and my Zoho email campaign. What am I missing out on if I’m not using the likes of ActiveCampaign or Infusionsoft?
Phillis:
Well, if you think of a pyramid, Infusionsoft’s at the top and then down next to that is, you know, your Zoho, which is an excellent application. And ActiveCampaign and Drip and then below that ConvertKit, MailChimp and some others.
So what you really get with Infusionsoft, it’s more of an all-inclusive system with really great kind of third-party marketplace applications. But you’re only looking in one dashboard versus Zoho, you’re hopping around versus ActiveCampaign doesn’t have the shopping cart application. You know, so that’s a second piece with that.
So those are the biggest ones. But what, I almost said Confusionsoft. I started with Infusionsoft back in 2005 when they first came out and it was definitely built by engineers. You know, it’s definitely structured that way. It made sense to me. Puzzles make sense to me. But they have really taken to heart and are in massive change for the past six months and some more really great things coming out.
So just kind of on a sidetrack here. Let’s say we moved you to ActiveCampaign, set everything up as if we were in Infusionsoft with naming of your campaigns, tags, you know, the client funnels, and wanted to move you up when you reach this point of saturation because ActiveCampaign charges you per client record, whether there’s still a viable client that you email or sell to versus Infusionsoft only charges you for live client records.
So in ActiveCampaign, it’s cheaper right now when you’re just starting out, depending on how many records you have. But you’re going to get to a point of saturation where ActiveCampaign actually costs you more per month and you’re not getting the all-inclusive that Infusionsoft has for you.
So it’s, again, when somebody comes to me, I take them through, I have a whole worksheet. We spend an hour just going through everything and, you know, making sure that we’re going to put you in a CRM that matches your time and budget where you are now. But look to grow you, you know, because we definitely want to, you know, have you having the best piece of software available to what you need to do.
And we want to make it seamless with that. So the strategy piece for new clients who aren’t already in either ActiveCampaign or Infusionsoft is very critical for my intake.
Lee:
And then with Infusionsoft, I always hear speak of, like, the automation aspect of things. So putting people down different funnels, etc. Can you kind of give people who don’t, people who’ve never really seen Infusionsoft or necessarily understand what the whole aspect of automation means? Can you just unpack that a little bit? What benefits, again, come with automation? How can you use it? What would be a good use case?
Phillis:
Oh, absolutely. It’s just using kind of a simple case. You know, everybody should have it, and if you don’t, you need to get this as a simple opt-in, you know, that you sign people up for your newsletter or to get up to date. And you give some sort of nice, high-value e-book or, you know, audios or whatever.
So they come into your funnel. And in Infusionsoft, we call it campaigns. So you’re new. And we want to score you and pull you through different things that we’re doing, like to sign up for the next level, sign up for, you know, a lower-end product and work you through there.
So what Infusionsoft does is we have in the campaigns what you’re called diamonds. And so it goes into the if this, then that piece of it. So if I signed up for your newsletter, I’m in this nurture. You know, I get a set of dripped emails, you know, checking in, letting me know what you’re doing. And then I actually click on a link that I’m interested in buying your startup podcast course. And that will then put me into a whole new campaign.
So it automatically takes me out of these nurture emails, which really no longer apply. It scores me at a different level. So you as the business owner or your virtual assistant or team manager can look in and see that this person actually is, you know, higher interested, highly interested in learning more about who you are and what you do. So that puts them into this whole higher-end nurture campaign. And it goes through, you know, another sequence of, you know, five to ten emails.
And then in those emails, there’s links again. If I click on another link to maybe sign up to talk to you, maybe have a strategy session, it’ll, you know, score me differently, put me in a different funnel. If I end up not doing any more action through that, then it’s going to put me back into the old funnel of where I left off, the original funnel.
So it’s…
Lee:
So it can then continue that nurturing process again. And then when you click something else, boom, something else happens.
Phillis:
Exactly. And so that’s where the science kind of comes in that the engineering aspect of Infusionsoft is wonderful. And, you know, ActiveCampaign is getting there. And Drip is also getting there with the if this, then that. And it’s, you know, it’s kind of, you’ve got to mind map all your campaigns out. But once you do, it will save you time. It will help you nurture the clients that need nurtured. It’ll help you just know you’ve got this list and you might need to actually figure out why they’re not moving forward through your funnels.
And then you can make that decision after a year. Do you just really, you know, want to clean your list up as well? And that’s where ActiveCampaign Infusionsoft is really good at, you know, helping you really hone in on keeping your list nice and lean. Because, you know, why, why, you know, reach out to folks who just aren’t responding to you either.
Lee:
Yeah. I feel like you want to keep saying Confusionsoft, by the way.
Phillis:
I know. Thank you for that mental image.
Lee:
I’m sorry. It’s, you’ve done so well.
Phillis:
It still is, you know, it’s, you know, it’s not for everybody. And that’s where, you know, you do have Infusionsoft consultants and partners because that’s where we’re there to help you. And it’s an investment. It’s, but, you know, you’re investing in your business as well. So it’s, that’s, you know, I just really, you know, that’s why I need to talk to people first. I’m not going to sell you Infusionsoft if I know ActiveCampaign is going to serve you just as well right now. And, you know, get, again, grow, help you grow your business.
So in a year or, you know, a year and a half or even six months, all of a sudden, you know, Infusionsoft is going to be the better answer for you.
Lee:
That’s good. I like how you pointed out that it’s a good idea to mind map everything first. I think that’s one of the mistakes I made when entering into ActiveCampaign. I loved ActiveCampaign as a CRM. I loved it as being able to send just general campaigns out. So I was using it more as a MailChimp solution. But then when I then started to go into the automation, I didn’t go in with any necessary plan. I just started trying to use the tools that were in front of me and started trying to wing stuff. And it just got too complicated. And I just gave in very, very quickly.
So I think lesson learned for me is two things. Obviously, mind map that out, but also get some advice as well from someone who knows what they’re doing when it comes to automation. Because all of this, people know, they’ve heard me on the podcast before. All of this is all very new to me still. I’m kind of old school networking guy. I’m going to an early breakfast networking in the morning, tomorrow morning. And I’m doing all my old school stuff. And I feel like there’s still so much I have to learn, especially when it comes to things like, you know, I love it. I get it. I get the idea of nurturing people and having lists. But it also makes me think, oh, man, I’ve got to create more content. And I’ve got to design it and try and work it all out. And it’s like, oh, I’ll just go in at work and breakfast tomorrow. There’s bacon there. Oh, bacon. Yes. Always bacon.
Phillis:
Well, here’s the thing. It’s like, I’m probably not your typical marketer persona. As I like to keep things simple. Because I know you are like me. Our clients are very smart. You know, they don’t need to be tricked. They don’t need to be sold, basically. They just need to understand this is what’s going to solve their problem with that.
So that’s why doing the mind map versus just jumping in and adding on to simple campaigns confuses folks. Because your clients were used to you, you know, just being straightforward and keeping it simple. Now, all of a sudden, they’re receiving all these other emails that may or may not make sense for where they’re at in your actual funnel, the workflow, what you’re doing with them.
So it’s, you know, doing a mind map. And it’s not difficult. It could be even drawing stuff out on a piece of paper saying, this is what you think it needs to look like. And then somebody that understands how to set up the system, they go ahead and set it up. And you go ahead and run through testing it to see if the end product, the end user, is actually having that great experience that you want them to have.
So that’s one of the pitfalls. And it’s, I was guilty of that, too. You know, it’s like, oh, yeah, let me just duplicate this campaign and add and take away. And it’s like, oh, my God, I forgot, sorry, what I was saying. And, you know, what was the purpose of this actual campaign? You know, and it does confuse your clients. And, you know, we don’t want to down talk our clients. We don’t want to come across as we’re elitist with everything. But, you know, we want to definitely show them, you know, here’s problems that we’ve identified in the online business world where we play that might help you. And if you think this is a great idea, let’s schedule a call, you know, type of thing. It’s that simple. It really is.
Lee:
That’s good. I like it. And you’re right. You know, suddenly launching a very complicated automation funnel. I don’t even know what the right terms are. I clearly am out of my depth. But just launching something is going to confuse people. Suddenly people are going to get loads of emails off me. And then if I don’t do it right, I’m going to be throwing people on the wrong types of lists and they’re going to be receiving things they don’t need to.
So being very careful with it, I think, is super important. Now, just kind of shifting slightly, and I don’t know if this is related or not, but I know you guys also specialize in, or at least from the website when I was reading this morning, you do learning management systems. Is that in conjunction with Infusionsoft as well, or is that some other way?
Phillis:
Well, I’m glad you asked. Learning management systems, LMS, are basically the platform for delivering online courses. And there’s a couple of great platforms. The highest one is LearnDash, which I am certified through WP Elevation and Rockstar Empires to serve my community.
So where LearnDash comes in is you can have any kind of CRM. It could be Infusionsoft, ActiveCampaign, Drip, et cetera. But there is a piece of software, it’s an add-on, that works directly with either ActiveCampaign and Infusionsoft as a bridge to LearnDash. And it’s called Membarium. And it’s highly important when you’re doing and setting up courses that you have folks, number one, they’re able to buy, they’re able to get their login and password right off the bat. And you’re able to manage whether, you know, your courses are evergreen or they’re drip and et cetera.
So it just really makes having the information in your, you know, ActiveCampaign or Infusionsoft match what’s in LearnDash.
So that’s the highest end of learning management platforms. And then there’s a lot, Teachable, there’s third party, you know, Teachable is one of them that’s really great. There’s, oh, Rizuku. There’s, oh, my God, tons and tons of third party. I can’t even think of them right now. And they all hook up nicely to whatever email platform you have. They hook up very nicely to PayPal or Stripe or Authorize.Net would be another one. If you don’t have that hooked up in your Infusionsoft, if you have that other solution.
So, again, it just really depends on the client need. I walk through folks who come to me, they want a course. And if you’re not ready for the investment, because LearnDash is not for the faint of heart, but it’s like Infusionsoft. It’s a fabulous investment. But, you know, I’ve got a course that I’m building for somebody and we’re using Zippy Courses. And I’m building it —
Lee:
Sounds such a cute name, by the way.
Phillis:
It is. Zippy. Zippy Courses. Oh, it’s fabulous. It’s a plugin that’s on her website. And I’m building it so when she creates the proof that this course is actually going to work, then we’ll go ahead and build it on a LearnDash site and hook everything up.
So, again, it’s, you know, just like CRMs. I want to make sure that the client isn’t spending money necessarily if they haven’t created proof that this course concept that they have isn’t going to work. So, we go with the best solution for their budget that’s going to give their clients and them a great experience as well.
Lee:
It’s so important, I think, as agencies to enable and empower our client to test their ideas to come up with some sort of minimum viable product before they then go ahead and invest in the bigger, more complex, more expensive software. Because not only is the more expensive software, obviously more expensive monthly, but equally so is the investment in time and advice and resources that are going to be needed, I think, for a lot of the system, at least on the initial outlay.
I mean, I think with Infusionsoft, perhaps then once you’ve put in all your initial investment, you can leave it running for a year and then review in a year’s time, etc. But certainly at the very beginning, it sounds like there’s an awful lot of work.
And that’s a mountain that I’m going to have to climb myself as well because we are, internally, we’ve been talking about this. We’ve been doing kind of online courses, following information about all of these different platforms to really try and get, you know, my head around. What is the sales funnel? What is automation? How can I kind of move myself, my understanding and our kind of online marketing into kind of a more modern approach?
I never want to let go of networking because I do love bacon. Obviously, you know, everyone, well, not everyone does. Vegetarians don’t. I’m not sure what they, but anyway, I’m sorry, vegetarians.
But yeah, no, seriously, I do love networking and I love meeting people. I love the online networking aspect of it as well. But I’m also conscious that, you know, there is a whole segment of people that I’m neglecting. We’ve got a list. There are people that we could be communicating with, adding value to and even generating leads from. But, you know, I don’t do anything with it. And it’s one of those things that bugs me. It’s at the back of my mind all the time.
Phillis:
And that’s, you know, that’s the really cool piece is, you know, people either think, oh, I’m only online so I don’t have to go personally meet somebody. And I’ll tell you, there is huge value when you create your yearly budget to put in a travel budget and target one or two very specific masterminds / big meetups that you will go, not necessarily get clients out of it, but you’re going to, you know, meet these people that you’ve been following online. Whether it’s, you know, the big social media camp marketing in February, the end of February in San Diego, whether it’s, you know, every year WP Elevation puts on a, some sort of organized training / networking around the States and in Australia and in the UK.
It’s really important, you know, if you want to keep growing your business is to set that budget aside. And if you can’t even bring your VA with you, because it’s, it’s a whole learning experience. And it could be that you’re going to something like WordCamp. Again, you know, you’re kind of talking to your peers, but you’re actually, you really, you’re meeting folks that you could in the future, if not now, identify someone who you could bring on as a consultant or, you know, bring on to your team on a part-time basis for any big project that comes up for you.
So that’s, you know, something that we forget and, you know, going to your local, you know, breakfast, and here we have what’s B&I’s, it’s business networking meetings. There’s, e-women networking, depending on where you live, in the U.S. and the state you’re at. But yeah, definitely, you know, plan for that. It’s, it’s worth getting out from behind your computer. It’s, it’s worth meeting people. And, you know, my philosophy is you never know. There’s so many possibilities out there, you know, just, just to be open. And it could be, you just get the spark of an idea that is a perfect match for where you’re heading in your business. And you talk with that person and, you know, you just make it your own.
Lee:
Yeah, it’s just fantastic. Brilliant. So guys, if you are networking, keep networking. If you’re not networking, do network. If you are not exploring the potential of Infusionsoft or any form of automation platform, like myself, I’ve not been, then do explore it. Because there are many channels to, to market. There are many channels to adding value and to generating revenue / leads / all of the above.
So let’s go on this learning journey together. If you’re not a member of the Facebook group, head on over to the Facebook group. That’s wpinnovator.com forward slash group. That’s a redirect, guys. And, um, let’s go on this journey together. I’m sure Phillis will be really open to answering questions. You have to be now because I’ve just said it.
Really open to answering questions on, on the Facebook group, if you’ve got any. And when this podcast goes live, I’m going to put a little thread in there and we’ll pin it. And let’s have a conversation, um, about, um, first of all, a giggle at how many times she tried not to say, Confusionsoft. But then after we’ve had that little giggle, let’s, uh, talk about, uh, Infusionsoft and other products and automation and what are your experiences and what questions might you have of Phillis?
So, Phillis, how can people, other than in the Facebook group, how can people follow you? And then we will bid you adieu.
Phillis:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I have, um, a personal page that I don’t keep just private for friends and family. And, uh, it’s just, if you just, um, type in Phillis, P-H-I-L-L-I-S, Benson, B-E-N-S-O-N, you’ll find my personal page and you’ll find my business page. As well, I’m pretty active in social media and, and, um, Lee’s group. Um, you can just private message me if you’ve got questions. If you’re looking to set up a similar type of business model like I have, I’m more than happy to share, um, the do’s and the don’ts of, you know, the pitfalls of all the money I’ve spent and all the time I’ve spent. And to finally come up with what works for me, I’m absolutely happy to do that as well.
Lee:
That is super generous. Um, if you don’t mind what I’ll do then, uh, Phillis is I’ll do a little pre-roll as well, just to let people know that, uh, you make that very kind offer. Cause I’m sure there are people who’ve listened to this podcast thinking, wow, that is definitely a way that, uh, you know, we could add more value to our agency or stop doing something else that they don’t like to do. Cause there are so many different revenues, sorry, channels of revenue, aren’t there within an agency that we could be focusing on.
And just listening to you, I’m thinking, oh my God, you, you do, you do this, this, this is your primary business. For me, I’m constantly turning out new websites all the time. And yet for you, you’re not doing that. You’re actually doing some, you’re doing some sites, but you’re also doing something else, which is generating income and offering huge value to people all around the world.
So, um, I’ve kind of got a bit of envy going on right now. Agency envy. I think it’s a real thing.
Phillis:
Yeah, it is. And again, that’s where the whole concierge thing, you know, and again, I, I’m constantly, you know, rebranding that and repackaging it. But yeah, the websites that that’s my creative outlet, you know, I, I do stained glass and I love doing that. And so to me, building a website kind of flows with that, but I’m able then to bring in all the marketing stuff that I’m learning from everybody and best practices.
And, oh, I just want to, before we end a caveat is these groups that we’re in, again, these are paid high-end groups, um, that Lee and I are in. But if we’ve got a question or we’re stuck or there’s a piece of code or, you know, we’re just, we’re not sure that the copy flows, we post in these groups and we get the best valuable, um, feedback possible.
So if you’re not in, um, a paid group, definitely consider that. It’s, um, you know, there’s a lot out there. Um, again, I’m a WP Elevation person. I’m sold on that, but, um, it’s worth just, you know, kind of peeking around in some paid groups and seeing if they’re a good fit for you.
The free groups are excellent as well, but, you know, some of them, um, don’t, uh, serve everybody. You know, they’re not, um, you know, like Lee’s group and even, you know, the content creation group with Kim Doyal is an excellent group to be in as well. And it’s a free group at this point, but, um, it’s worth, um, spending your time wisely in social media, Facebook’s, especially groups. And if there’s other groups that aren’t serving you, I, you know, unless they’re, you know, about, you know, how do you cook bacon or how do you brew this beer? Um, you know, evaluate the time of spending.
Lee:
How do you get the phrase confusion soft out of your brain? I think that might be when you need to go find.
Phillis:
I’m messing with you. I tell, I’m telling you, I’m going to listen back to the audio at the end of this. And I’m sure I heard several just before you said Infusionsoft. And then you checked yourself. And I was really trying not to laugh as well. Cause you were saying really good stuff at the same time. And I’m just like, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to do that. It’s like when you get that earworm, isn’t it? When someone’s done a song and then you’ve got a song in your head for the rest of the day. And you’re like, damn it.
Phillis:
Well, I tell you, if somebody doesn’t understand the confusion slash Infusionsoft thing, then they’re either too young or, um, they’re not ready for it. And with that, thank you so much for being on the show and have an awesome day.
Phillis:
You’re so welcome. And, um, I’m finishing my coffee and I’ll have a beer later this afternoon. And you’re on. Thank you. Bye bye. God bless.
Lee:
That wraps up episode 104. Now there is something really exciting happening in a few short weeks just before Christmas. And I’m not going to tell you anything about it. That’s super mean, isn’t it? So if you want to find out, if you want to be one of the first people to know what we’ve been cooking in the background for the last few months, then head on over to the Facebook group. Cause we’re going to tell everyone in their first in a few short weeks. That’s WP innovator.com/group.
If you want to be on this show, because we do want to talk to the people who listen to this show, because this is a show for agencies. Please head on over to WP innovator.com forward slash contact. Get in touch because we want to talk to you about your agency, about your experiences, about the lessons you have learned along the way, about the things that you struggle with. Why don’t we share all those on a podcast together? So that would be great. And it doesn’t matter how big or how small you are as an agency, how experienced you are. We want you on the show because it would be great to have a conversation. It would be great to get to know you. WP innovator.com/contact for that. And the group is WP innovator.com/group. We will see you next week.
