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Verbatim text
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Welcome to episode number a hundred and nine of the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host, Lee Jackson. And on today’s show, we have my very good friend, mister Paul Lacey. And he’s gonna be talking all about his agency journey. They’re just starting out right now with his business partner on a very new exciting chapter, but his whole history of of building up an agency and then bringing everything back to the absolute basics is absolutely fascinating. So this is one to sit back, relax, get a coffee, or a hot beverage of your choice, and really enjoy. As you’ll remember, this podcast has changed its name and it’s very, very good reason because we’re launching the new Agency Trailblazer community. So be sure to go and check that out over on agencytrailblazer.com.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s agencytrailblazer.com. Now sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. Oh, and please keep your arms and legs in the vehicle at all times. This is your host, mister Lee Jackson. And on today’s show, we have the wonderful, the awesome, the all powerful, the handsome, the follicle challenged, Paul Lacey.
Paul Lacey:
Hello. Thanks for that intro. Follically challenged. Brilliant.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think that was the politically correct way.
Paul Lacey:
Yes. I like it.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m not gonna I can’t call you Baldy apparently or Slaphead or whatever else they used to call me. No.
Paul Lacey:
We’re not allowed to do that. Even though we love it.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. I know. And the the actually, on this, do do people just come up to you and kind of stroke your head?
Paul Lacey:
Well, they don’t so much because it’s it’s relatively new since I started shaving it, you know, fully. You know? So, but, I mean, yeah. It does happen from time to time. Mom my little my son, he does it quite a lot. He comes up and he loves the fuzziness, especially when he’s grown, you know, grown a little bit. But, general general public don’t tend to do it.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Okay. Must must must be just me. I think mine’s got that shine now because I’ve been bald for so long. Yeah.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. What about
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So it’s it kind of draws people. You’re not you’re not like a a bug sees that bright light and they kind of, like, get, oh, drawn to the light. Then people’s hands are just drawn to the to the smooth. Absolutely. Yeah. Like,
Paul Lacey:
I mean,
Lee Matthew Jackson:
if someone’s
Paul Lacey:
kind of you know, there’s
Lee Matthew Jackson:
a bit that people can skip. Right. On this this is funny. I think it’s funny.
Paul Lacey:
Yep.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You might laugh. On a podcast, yeah, on podcast apps, most podcast apps have the ability to skip so many seconds in so that you miss kind of all the introduction fluff.
Paul Lacey:
Oh, yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So I’m wondering people might be wondering what the hell we are talking about.
Paul Lacey:
This is what we’re talking about for the whole episode. That’s that’s what you told me.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No. If they just got to that point where no. Anyway, let’s move on. Yeah. Anyway, so peep people who don’t know Paul Lacey, Paul is a very, very good friend of mine, and he has been pivotal, I guess, with regards to his opinion, his consultancy, all of that good stuff with the launch of the new agency trailblazer community, which is happening on the January 1. So be sure to go and check out that on agencytrailblazer.com. But Paul is more than just my friend. He is a WordPress legend.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
He is an amazing designer and has got a rich history that we’re gonna explore today. So, Paul, would you just like to say hi to everybody and just give people a little bit of an understanding of who you are? We always like to know things like your favorite color and your favorite drink, and why not throw in a Disney character or a Disney movie that you like as well?
Paul Lacey:
Okeydoke. Well, so it’s Paul here from WP Blueprint. That’s my little agency, which I’ve been running for the last, year or so. But prior to that, I had kind of another agency as well. Favorite color? Well, it’s a bit boring. It’s probably something like hash f six, f seven, f eight, something like that.
Paul Lacey:
Oh, yes.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s a geek.
Paul Lacey:
It’s a it yeah. It’s a really lovely shade of light gray. Mhmm. And, a lot of clients can’t even see it. You know, they’re blind to it as such. But, I can see it and I know the subtle
Lee Matthew Jackson:
What’s weird is I knew that that was gray?
Paul Lacey:
You know that you know that shade of gray. It’s a nice one, isn’t it? Disney character, I think it’s probably it’s probably well, we’re watching Frozen a lot at the moment. My son’s well into Frozen. He’s, you know, constantly wearing the dresses and stuff like that, which, makes him happy. That’s fine. Yes. Probably probably honor at the moment. Yeah.
Paul Lacey:
Because of, you know, her journey, what she goes through and stuff. I think that’s, that’s a good one. Although, yeah. Yeah. I’d go with that one for now.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I do like how Disney have really kind of turned a a corner with regards to the movies. And I know this is not a Disney podcast, but let me just get this off my chest. I like how, women are no longer people who need to be saved in that, but actually they are
Paul Lacey:
the strong
Lee Matthew Jackson:
characters in the Disney movies. So kudos to those guys. Great movie. Although, I was very thankful to Moana when that came out because that at least stopped my daughter singing the Frozen songs, and now she sings You’re Welcome all the time. So I’m now waiting for the next movie to come out so that we can have some other song, and then my brain isn’t kind of gonna implode with all of this.
Paul Lacey:
To see what’s next, to be honest. They just keep pumping them out.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Amazing. They’re amazing. I’m gonna get you on our other podcast then next year. Now then, there is this thing called the Internet Wayback Machine, and I’ve kind of done a bit of stalking.
Paul Lacey:
Oh my gosh.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Alec, because I wanted to find out about you and, really just look at your progress as as a web developer and as an agency over the years. So before I kind of do a bit of a this is your life on you and kind of unpack that, do you mind just giving us, like let’s go back to the very, very early days of when you decided you wanted to become a designer of some sort. How did you get on the very so this is pre 02/2008. You’re not allowed to go beyond 02/2008 here. So past 02/2008, in the into the history, if you can go in your time frame
Paul Lacey:
No problem.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
What give give us an idea of how did you get into design? What was your first web project look like and all of that good stuff, early days?
Paul Lacey:
Yep.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. So, it was I was a nerd, and went went to university. And, did a stood there business and technology, which at the time, you know, this was I think I started university in ’97 or something like that. So the the web was kind of really starting out then as a kind of big thing. So it featured heavily in our course because that was a kind of business and technology. So the technology aspect was things like computers, the web, and Internet, and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. So as a result of that, we did a work placement in the second year, and we needed to find, a place to just go and do a eight weeks worth of free work, kind of work experience.
Paul Lacey:
And at the time, I worked for a record shop called Way Ahead Records. You might remember that one. I think that’s still around, in Nottingham. And I was sitting next to my friend there, and we were doing ticket sales on the phone. And, girl called Simone, and, I was telling her, I need to do a a placement. I might go back to the food back in Redditch that I used to, you know, and they’ll have me they’ll even pay me. And she was like, what are you talking about? This is supposed to be a a useful work placement for your career. And I was like, yeah.
Paul Lacey:
But they’ll pay me there. And, she’s like, no. No. My my boyfriend works for a a web design company. You should go and talk you should go and talk to the boss there. So, anyway, she put me in touch, and I went to see this a, this agency in Nottingham called Polestars. And, they accepted me to come on this free placement. And, so I started, and it was absolutely awesome.
Paul Lacey:
I was literally fell in love with, you know, web design the idea of a web design company at that point because it was around the time when the .com stuff was starting to get exciting. So it was there was, you know, the office was fun. There was things to do. We’d play games after after work and stuff like that. And we’d go to a go to the bar every night because we’d done a website for the bar, and they gave us free free drinks all the time. And so I got into that, and I just couldn’t believe that this was a job at the time. I just, you know, just sitting there with people designing stuff using Flash Yeah. You know, making animations, making games.
Paul Lacey:
I just couldn’t believe it was a job. So what actually happened at that point was, that agency, launched a sub company called it sounds dodgy. It was called kids online. But actually, I mean, you probably wouldn’t get away with that title now. But the, the company was kind of like a a kids online magazine. And, they basically just after my placement, they said, do you wanna come and work for kids online? You know, just creating the web pages, doing reviews. You know, you do things like go to the cinema to go and see premiers and everything. I was like, yeah.
Paul Lacey:
That sounds absolutely amazing. So, I joined kids online. They gave me a salary and everything. I just well, literally couldn’t believe it. I was just telling my friends at university, this has worked out so well. And, that lasted about a year. So then I was in the final year of university. And what I did, my university d degree in the end, I did on, my final project was setting up a web design company.
Paul Lacey:
It was a it’s a fictional one, so it never actually happened as a company. But that was kind of where I where I was going in that direction. Yeah. After that, there was various companies because the .com boom and bust happened, worked for a different .com than for Capital One Bank. I actually I probably mentioned this to you before. I did a little stint at Disney and did their, so sorry about that. Did their, archives website on a contract. It was the kind of archives of all their films up to that point.
Paul Lacey:
So that was really that was a really ace gig, to be honest. And and then I worked for, a company called Canine Media, which were a dog magazine, but also did a web design and stuff on the side. And the bizarre thing about that is that we were based in the same office as, Pete Everett is based now in the Eye Center in Mansfield. Cool. So, and then I think I moved over back towards the Birmingham way because I was still in Nottingham at that point and joined an arts organization as a web designer again and eventually became kind of a web design studio manager there. And that was awesome. And, from there, jumped on to went and worked for a branding agency Mhmm. In, Ulster, which is in Worcestershire.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. And that was really great, but this was my last job. This is where I quit, and this probably takes me up to around the point where you’re, talking about 02/2008, I imagine. What happened was it was an amazing agency. I loved it. I got some brilliant advice there. And, but it was a too far to drive every day. I got conned by the, by the recruitment consultant and, you know, they said it will be fine, and it was it was long hours.
Paul Lacey:
And I so I I quit, and, I had no job. It was the most ridiculous quit you could ever imagine. It was the day they were giving me some shares. So they’re like, right. This is your day you’re getting your shares in the company this day. And I said, sorry, guys. You know? I’m I’m gonna have to quit. I I don’t wanna take your shares because my heart’s not in this.
Paul Lacey:
And, so I had no job to go to, so that was a bit stupid. And, so I became something of a cross between unemployed and a freelancer in a day. And, I did a couple of jobs for that agency as freelance. And I got some really good advice from the, CEO of that company, a guy called Al Alloway. The company is called Creative and Brand, really great branding company. And he said, you know you know what, Paul? Freelancing’s all very well and everything, but, you know, you can you can only really earn as much as your hour rate times the amount of billable hours that you can put in. And at the time, I was just thinking, well, that’s still quite a lot of money, so that’s cool. But it wasn’t till kind of years later that I realized that was really solid advice.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. And, basically, you told me, you know what? You should go and set up your own agency. And, that’s where I eventually got to.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I bet your CV was absolutely peppered because you’ve just gone from place to place here. I was like, oh my, Gideon. Right?
Paul Lacey:
It was it was pretty good. Yeah. At the time. Yeah. I mean, that was over that was over a space of ten years, you know. So that was kind of as a starting You do not
Lee Matthew Jackson:
look old enough.
Paul Lacey:
In that picture you’ve seen of me recently, I probably don’t, but that’s filters for you, isn’t it?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, I suppose, Instagram, aye? Yep. Alright. Alright. God love it. God bless it. I was actually using a picture of me age 23 for ten years.
Paul Lacey:
Why not?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Until I turned 33 and realized I really have to accept the fact that I don’t look like that anymore. So alright. So we’re now in 02/2008. That’s that’s a really rich history. I love how through that you accepted some, a free placement. So you did some free work, and you got an experience of something incredible. And then that led to more and more opportunities of doing things that you really enjoyed, which is phenomenal. So I then, like I said, stalked you and discovered that you registered a domain in 02/2008, and it kinda sat there with a holding page for a year.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And then you launched in 02/2009 with your, first agency style Yeah. Website, which you actually kept going until 2014. So that’s in the world of the web, that’s a really long time to have the same website.
Paul Lacey:
It’s really bad. It’s really bad.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Kudos to you, mate. So, what was the vision? Like, the on that day, the day you were launching all the week you know, that that time period, what was the vision for that agency?
Paul Lacey:
Well, at first, it was just gonna be me as a freelance until I found another job. Because, you know, I’ve got a working class background and my understanding of of a career is you go and work for a bus, and you try your best, and you aspire to get a job in an office, sit with a computer. You know? And and that that was how I saw things. It’s it’s taken me a long, long time to change that mindset. You know, know, no one’s instilled that in me. That was just my that was my understanding of the world. Yeah. So my ambitions were very small.
Paul Lacey:
It was just I just realized, you know, as a freelancer, I was paying off some debt and, you know, student debt and that kind of thing. Mhmm. And it seemed like a more profitable way to to live. But I had absolutely no plans to, make anything any bigger at all. What actually happened was I, met a another startup called, three eight three project. They’re an agency in Birmingham. And we were introduced by a friend, and their story was they they started their agency, and they intended to start an agency. They’re a bit different to me.
Paul Lacey:
I intended to start as a freelancer. They intended to start as an agency. Suki Duhal, one of my old friends, he, won a competition for Sprite, and, it was to design a Sprite cam. So he did this really cool, artwork and this kind of skateboarding character and stuff. He was always good at drawing little monsters, and he won the competition. And they won $5,000. And their can was, produced on something some kind of billions of cans. I don’t know what the the number
Paul Lacey:
was, but
Paul Lacey:
it was it was a lot anyway. And they both quit their jobs and used that $5,000 to fund an office. At the time, we could get some funding in Birmingham for almost three offices. So I came in so we met and said, should we should we share an office? I can get the funding too, and, we can get a bigger office than you guys might have thought. I know and maybe we can work together. So there were two designers, and they were doing branding stuff, and then they they moved into web a little bit. And so we kind of formed a bit of a partnership, and I became I became a kind of freelancer for them, almost permanent, which is almost like the typical situation of a freelancer. They kind of often I mean, this isn’t the same for every freelancer, but my understanding of a freelancer is is more along the lines of it’s a it’s more like a job than it is a company, but you are self employed.
Paul Lacey:
So I was working with John Newbold and Suki de Hala in their their new agency, and we were doing all I was doing all their websites. And then they they were super talented, so they grew quick. They won some awards, got some big clients, and I was just struggling to get it all done. A friend of mine had been outsourcing work to, I think, The Philippines. He was doing a web development agency, and he was like, you should just try you should try this. So I spoke to my friends at the agency and said, should we you know, I can’t do all this work now. You’ve got too much work, and they couldn’t afford to hire another, you know, full time person as such. So I said, should we try what my friend Ben does and, you know, head to Elance or something or the freelance, freelance boards and and see if we can hire some people to help with all the work.
Paul Lacey:
So that was the accidental pivot for me where I suddenly became less of a designer and developer and more of a, manager, a web studio manager as such. And I did that with them for about a year. And it what I realized after about a year is that that I wasn’t I didn’t really wanna go in that direction. I wanted to kind of, branch out a little bit, and they needed to grow outside of the the outsourcing to everyone type model. They were you know, the the jobs they were doing were too were were too high end, you know, really. So so and I was getting sick of that anyway. So I went off and kind of into a more kind of arts kind of direction with my freelancing and did some kind of arts projects, which was amazing. You know, it took me around Europe and stuff like that with some, international multimedia projects and everything.
Paul Lacey:
And and I I kind of broke away from from those guys, and it was a case of, do I become a one of the shareholders and we go for it, or do I kind of, you know, step away and go and do my own thing and they can do their own thing? So that’s what we we did in the end. And, you know, now they’re a massively successful agency. Probably drive around in Porsches and stuff like that. And, so, you know but, actually, it was definitely the right decision at the time. Yeah. And, because I I just had my first child, and I definitely wasn’t in the right place to, to go gung ho into a a busy agency. You know, big clients and all that sort of stuff. So, anyway, did that, and that was really where I turned into a different kind of animal and became more of a business.
Paul Lacey:
And so we were kind of a a a mini version of, Angled Crown in a way, I suppose. We, we were like a SWAT team for other agencies. Yeah. You know, they would they would have a bunch of websites to do. This is when you had Quangos outsourcing to London agencies, London agencies outsourcing to regional agencies, regional agencies outsourcing to the likes of me, and me then hiring people, you know, permanent people, but from, you know, freelance boards and stuff. So I wonder I wonder what the top level price of some of the work we were doing was.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, it must have been in the millions.
Paul Lacey:
It probably I mean, yeah. I mean,
Paul Lacey:
you know, by the time it boiled down to us, we were in the kind of hundreds and thousands. But, so, anyway, so that’s where we I’ve been accidentally became a manager of a team. That kind of all fell apart around the time my daughter was born because, I just was not prepared for parenthood at all.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
What was that sorry. Was that with the old agency that you helped them build a team, or was this your team that you had?
Paul Lacey:
It was it was all around exactly the kind of same time. It was around that sort of split when I moved away from them and when I kind of joined up with some other agencies as well. Yeah. And, I realized it was really tough. It took me about a year to figure it out, but I just slogged away for about a year until I realized, you know what? This is absolutely exhausting. I’m not really the best manager in the world, and that’s what I’m doing. So I kind of, a lot of the team that I had then, I had to get rid of them. There was there was probably about fifteen, sixteen people that we were hiring on a regular basis.
Paul Lacey:
And, there was one guy, Peter, who was based in Poland at the time in, and, he was just awesome. So we decided to create a new agency from that, which was called Dickie Birds. So we we more or less fired everyone, in a nice way. Yeah. And, then Peter flew over to London, and we met up at, met up and had a bit of a chat. And then we decided right there to start a new little agency. The same kind of thing, but with a much more, more solid and strong team. So instead of, you know, 15 random people from around the world, myself and Peter, another guy called Greg, and a guy called Tom, he was a designer.
Paul Lacey:
So we kind of formed a kind of four four person team, and that worked really well for about two, maybe two years, maybe three years or something. I can’t remember the exact dates, but, and we were doing the same thing, agency outsource work, and we were a really solid team. We started doing design as well because Tom was a designer. And Greg is a non WordPress, developer, so we were doing kind of database type things as well. And that went really well. And and this is where growth comes into it. So when you grow as a company, if you don’t have the right advice and the right experience, then it can go wrong. But you’ve gotta try, obviously.
Paul Lacey:
So we, we got our biggest ever client. I’m not allowed to say who they were, but it was a huge PLC in FTSE one hundred. And, we won a pitch and everything, and it was really exciting. And, you know, for us, you know, in terms of numbers, it was a it was a £40,000 project, which is the biggest thing we’d ever done Yeah. By, you know, three times as such. What we had to do at that point was put, entire core team on that project for at least nine months. And then we said, well, let’s hire a sub team to look after our WordPress projects. And that’s where it went wrong again because we did exactly the same thing that I did before, where, instead of saying, let’s hire a manager to manage this, and I can, you know, and and we can all stay on the on the good stuff, we just hired more technical people.
Paul Lacey:
So instead of which is if you’ve read the book, The E Myth Revisited, that’s all. Yeah. This is the classic mistake of the web designer type person who starts a business. They call it a technician in the book, where you you are kind of half entrepreneur, half technician, but very much poor at management. So your instinct is to hire more technicians. You then become a very poor manager looking after technicians that you don’t really know how how to look after. You don’t know how to people manage. And then what invariably happens is it all goes wrong, and you the typical response is to retreat back to business infancy, which is what I did about two years ago, which is where I’d had enough again.
Paul Lacey:
You know, it was and when I say had enough, I was literally, you know, depressed and, you know, looking for a job and just absolutely had enough of it. Just total jerk at home. You know? Just, all that kind of stuff that goes with stress and feelings of failure and all that kind of stuff. So that was about two years ago. Wind it all down, and I just decided to go back to I didn’t realize I was going back to business infancy, but having read that book since, that’s what I did. And And it’s where you kind of run away from everything you’ve done and go back to where it was Paul’s web design business. You know? And it’s just you and me.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Back when you remember it being the good old the quote unquote good old days and you wanna roll it all back. You Yeah. So just just to just to kind of recap this little section then, I mean, you’ve gone you’ve gone you you scaled right up, got the biggest job ever, then ended up you guys having to focus on that job, therefore, hiring lots of, I guess, technicians or administrations, you know, the the kind of day to day Yeah. Stuff rather than hiring a manager. And that’s the that’s absolutely the mistake we made as well in our agency. Everything you’re saying, it just parallels so well with what we did eight years ago.
Paul Lacey:
Very common.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah. And we we were hiring more and more technicians, people to do the work rather than actually, I would have probably been best doing some of the work and actually hiring a manager above me, someone who was more clever at running a business Yep. Who could actually give us a higher level, view of the direction that we were going. So so and this was two years ago. Jerk at home. I’ve been there as well. And and thank you so much for your honesty because, like, people don’t talk like this.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
People don’t confess to this. But, yes, same here. So it’s the same sort of story.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So back to business infants back to business infancy. Tell us about that. I mean, was that was that scary?
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Because, I mean, there was two options for me then. And, I just wanna say as well at the same time, you know, the film Frozen, obviously. And, for anyone who’s not seen it, the the right thing to do has been staring staring them in the face throughout the whole film. And they do the opposite all the time until right at the end. And a similar thing happened to me in that, you know, John and Sookie from three eight three project. The first thing they did was hire a, yeah, a salesperson who who was doing all the client management. And then they, you know, hired they did hire another technician, but they soon hired a business development manager.
Paul Lacey:
And they would you know, I I didn’t notice that they were doing that. I just I was impressed. You know? I was just, wow. Wow. How can you afford to pay someone that’s not actually producing something? That’s amazing. So my mind wasn’t really working like that. And the same with Creative and Brand, you know, they were doing it alright. You can go to their website now and see their team, and you’ll see how it’s structured.
Paul Lacey:
And, you know, it was it just reminds me of Frozone whereby this you know, the the obvious advice was there and the the good examples to follow, but sometimes you don’t have the confidence to to believe that you can pay a business development manager or a or a team manager and that kind of thing. So, anyway, back to the, where were we? What was it what were we saying?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, you’d gone back to business gone back to basics and, you were, I I guess, going back to the good old days where the people was on his own not having a team of a hundred people or whatever it was and being stressed and and all of that.
Paul Lacey:
It was a retreat to the good old days. Mhmm. But also it was more of a, defensive retreat. So Yeah. It was more when I say good old days, they were good old days that I was aiming for, but it was more of a comfort zone. At that time, I also applied for a couple of jobs in digital marketing, which I knew nothing about. And one of the reasons I didn’t take the, the option of of getting a job in the end was because I hadn’t had a CV in, you know, in almost ten years or however long it was. And this, what’s it called? LinkedIn had become a thing, and I hadn’t really got a profile on there as well.
Paul Lacey:
So what I realized when I kind of went to look at a job option was that I was unprepared for that as well. And getting a job seemed a lot more difficult than the last time I’d got one, which was where you just turn up, sweet talk the person a little bit, negotiate some money, and then you’ve got a job. It seemed a lot more competitive. So I kind of, again, in a kind of negative, mindset, just retreated to the only comfort comfortable thing that I knew, which was to go back to the good old days, like you say, of making websites on my own with nobody else. Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I could just imagine you’re in a fetal position whilst coding.
Paul Lacey:
Leave me alone.
Paul Lacey:
You’re not too far off. Not too far off. And, the the only good thing about that was I was so prepared to give it all up. I didn’t care about firing clients. So I had some, you know, clients who were really annoying me around that time, you know, just putting on the pressure and everything, and I didn’t really have a team to service them anymore as well. So I was just able to ditch them, which I know you’ve done a couple of times, and it’s been a a scary thing, but it’s been a very
Lee Matthew Jackson:
freeing at the same time. Yeah.
Paul Lacey:
And it’s really worthwhile doing. So the the good I had to do that because I had a pipeline for a larger company, but I was now on my own. That’s when I started experimenting with, kind of WordPress frameworks. Because prior to that, we’d been doing everything as parent theme. We just, you know, create a design, design it in Photoshop, slice it up to HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, and jQuery, and whatnot, and, and create a parent theme. So we’d never used a theme framework like Genesys or GeneratePress or any of these ideas like Headway and that kind of thing. So I came across this this idea of doing this, I think, through, Twitter. I joined Twitter.
Paul Lacey:
Just saw some people were doing this, and I’d been so blind to what the rest of the community were doing. I was just focused completely on my own little world. I was like, do you know what? This is really helpful. I could actually use this to replace half of the team that I used to have and do websites quicker. So for a for a good six months, I’ve created some absolutely appalling websites because I was completely out of practice. I’ve been doing, you know, management for years with my agency. I was learning some stuff with some pretty poor experimental tools like well, I’m gonna say I’m not gonna call it poor. I’m just gonna say that I don’t particularly think Visual Compose is the right tool for me.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Oh, did you use it?
Paul Lacey:
I did. Yeah. I thought it was brilliant at that time. I’m not gonna mention some of the other ones because, you know, they’ve they’ve still got fans and they’ve and stuff. But I went through various different tools. I can
Lee Matthew Jackson:
imagine which ones you mean though. And I’m like, half the people listening are already going, yep. We know.
Paul Lacey:
Yep. Yep. So, went through those kind of tools. Made made some pretty poor websites, but it was improving as I was going along. And, and and as a result, I kind of eventually because I was getting into the idea of being a WordPress developer again after so many years hiatus from it, I joined my local WordPress meetup. So I must have been becoming into a more positive frame of mind at that point. I think I was getting some, you know, some wins with the work that I was doing. I had a good year where a lot of clients sent me a lot of presents at Christmas time.
Paul Lacey:
I’ve not had any this year, to be honest. But, you know, they were sending me beer and wine and presents and stuff. It was great. So I was feeling good, and I went to a a WordPress meetup. And I met my, friend Ronald there, who’s sitting just across from me with his headphones on at the moment. And we had a really good chat about WordPress security and that kind of thing. He was starting his kind of small business as well in in web design, and and so we’re swapping a lot of ideas. And what happened was he we then went to five guys and had a burger together, with another guy, Tommy, and then we decided just as a joke to form our own meetup for Worcestershire called work Works Press.
Paul Lacey:
Because if you live in Worcestershire, the short version of Worcestershire is works. Wow. So we formed Works Press, with an intention to meet up, which we never have officially. But we but Ronald went and created a Facebook group. And I was on the verge of quitting Facebook as another of one of my the world sucks, you know, moments. So I was I was on the verge of quitting Facebook because I just couldn’t stand everyone’s kind of success stories on their feeds all the time and everything. And so and I was like, oh, great. I I can’t leave Facebook now because WorksPress is in Facebook.
Paul Lacey:
That’s the only place we exist. So I joined the group for WorksPress with Ronald and Tommy and, found that it was actually a nice little way to communicate with people, like minded people. There was only five of us in there. And I think there’s eight now. It’s hugely expanded. And, Well, what’s that?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
If it started at three, that’s over a %
Paul Lacey:
accurate. Amazing.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. That’s amazing. Yeah.
Paul Lacey:
So that led me to, explore some of the groups in Facebook. And that’s when I turned up on the door of, you know, the Beaver Builder group and eventually your group. I think it came across you through, an email campaign you were doing where you could find out your top plugins, if you remember that one.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s that’s been one of my sick that’s my most successful lead magnet.
Paul Lacey:
Yep. That’s how that’s how I, came across you. And also, Richard Bland was in the GeneratePress community which I joined and you interviewed him. And, that’s when the two the two things came together.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It’s a ridiculously small world he lives in in the same town I am currently talking to you in.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. It’s amazing. Yeah. So that’s when I kind of discovered the community. So that was my backstory. And, really, I feel like at this point, when I decided to stay on Facebook and and join some of the communities like your community and the Beazer Builder group and and those kind of thing, that’s where, in a way, I had a pivotal moment where I feel like the the community itself was was like my mentor, really. It was like my inspiration, my mentor, my confidence building mechanism, and a place to share some of the things that I was doing and some of the experiences and see that I wasn’t on my own in this in this kind of way. And also get an an idea of value because, you know, I’ve been doing WordPress for, at this point, fifteen, almost twenty years.
Paul Lacey:
I can’t even I don’t know what it is. What what it wouldn’t have been fifteen, twenty years for WordPress, but web design and development. Yeah. But I still saw myself as a kind of novice. It was, you know, I still kind of was looking at jobs and thinking I’ve got a good idea.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Syndrome then.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Total imposter syndrome because I I just saw these people with better websites. Like you said, I’ve been keeping my website for way too long. And I thought they must be so talented, and they are. But I was completely underestimating my own abilities and and discarding all my experience. And it’s a it’s something that you is is not a good thing to do. You know, having the encouragement of other people is is something that really helps build confidence and and pushes you to the next stage. So that’s when I met my mentor in a way, and my mentor is the community.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. The big global community. It’s flipping amazing, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, just the other day, I had a problem with pods, for a client. Just put a message out, and within ten minutes, I had three very, very good ideas on how to resolve the problem. You know, just ways to break down the issue, to to find the root of the problem. We we found it out.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But then there’s equally there’s other things like me and you are a member of a secret group with a few other people, and we’re not gonna tell people anything about that because it is super secret. But we’re able to in that. We just tell each other absolute real raw things Yeah. That we’re dealing with and get real raw advice from other people. Just having that network of people out there is is phenomenal. Now That’s right. You you’ve had an amazing journey, mate. I mean, you could seriously write a book and people would just, like, you your biography people would just be fascinated.
Paul Lacey:
I’d be fascinated to read that myself because I can’t remember half of it. So
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Start start start journaling.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Maybe.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And, I mean, looking back at your 02/2009 site, you’re kind of you’re positioning yourself as full service doing everything. Yeah. Over the last two years, you’ve had this exposure to the WordPress community and, to frameworks. I love what you talked about there using a framework to do the job of other people. Yeah. John Perez, years and years ago on the WP Innovative podcast, I don’t know, episode five, six, or something like really early on said, don’t be afraid to use tools to, to to get the job done because you’re still providing the same end result. So the the fact you’re able to use a framework and you you went on the same journey as John Perez and you found these frameworks work. These frameworks do do a good job and they still get the result done.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
They save you a lot of time, but still allow you to make profit and still, you to to offer a great service. I I love that journey you’ve been on. So we’re now in the present. You’ve you you’ve gone kind of back to more of the the Paul Lacey. You’ve got your WP Blueprint brand which is all around you and yourself and now it’s your mainly your WordPress. I looked at your 02/2014 website and I can see your journey there where you you’ve gone back to basics, but you’re primarily talking about, like, PHP, CSS, HTML, and putting yourself off as just a total freelancer. And then you’ve kind of evolved again with the blueprint. Obviously, that’s you still are clearly, you know, it’s about you, but you’re offering some very clear services, whereas your 2014 site wasn’t really very clear.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was
Paul Lacey:
still anything, does it, in the 2014?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Exactly. Twenty fourteen says what you do, and it looks like a glorified CV and really gives you the impression you can do anything. Yeah. Whereas now you’ve gone on this amazing journey, and WP Blueprint is so super specific. I I I really like it. You know, you are doing web design, you’re doing maintenance, and you’re doing development. In my head, I know exactly what you’re you’re doing. If I’m a Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
If I was an agency wanting to commission you, I’d know where I stand. And if I was a client, I would know where to go, you know, potential kind of b to b client. I’d know. I’d just go straight to web design. You’ve got your nice and poor, nice and poor page. So I I I’ve loved just just going on the way back, Machine, and seeing your journey. Like, everything you’ve told me is exactly the sort of journey I’ve seen through your website.
Paul Lacey:
It’s really
Lee Matthew Jackson:
cool. But something else has happened, hasn’t it, in the last month or two. Can you tell us about it?
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Well, first of all, just quickly to go on about the the dopey blueprint thing. I just wanted to say that that that all came about as a result of a consultation that I did with the wider community. Yeah. As you can see with the 2014 site and from what I’ve told you, you can kind of track my mental state that I had absolutely no idea what I was doing and where I was going at that point. The website absolutely shows that. The only thing on there that is is of any interest is that we should try to create some interest as it says that I got a, world record. And that was
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I was gonna ask you about that in a bit.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Ask me about that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Stop trying to show off.
Paul Lacey:
No. No. I just want to make sure.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You you did
Paul Lacey:
mention the world record. Right?
Paul Lacey:
I’ve got
Lee Matthew Jackson:
it here.
Paul Lacey:
Don’t worry. Good. Good. Good. Okay. Yeah. We can come back to that. That’s great.
Paul Lacey:
No. The, the WP Blueprint thing, I, I just want to bring that up because I had no idea whether to go, again, full service agency style or go personal brand with WP Blueprint. And in fact, it was still gonna be called PLM Creative at that point. And, I did a rough design in a kind of moment of inspiration, and I was really happy with it. And I posted it on the Beaver Builder group saying, I’m building the site. What do you think? And you probably still find it now. It’s it must have about 200 comments. And I got the most amazing, honest, brutal feedback from everyone in there.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I hate brutal feedback.
Paul Lacey:
Oh, it was it was all good, though. It was all actionable and, you know, some really great people took time to write stuff for me. And, from that, one of the comments was from a a friend who already know, Chris Green, who’s a brand designer. I think you might know him as well or know of him. He sent me a private message because we we know we know each other in the real world as well, saying, you know, your new site’s looking great, but when was the last time you rebranded? I was like, it’s like, good good question. And he he said, you know, I think it’s the only lacking thing. It doesn’t say anything about you. It’s a nice logo, but it looks dated and stuff.
Paul Lacey:
So that’s where WP Blueprint came about. So the the first one was the the design and then and then the rebrand and then taking on all the comments of the people. And then I met Regina through that thread as well. This is amazing. I met Regina through that thread. She got in touch with me and said, would you like to do a bit of a skill exchange? This is Regina Tutalino who’s just been on the WP Builds podcast. I shouldn’t mention that one. You can edit that out.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No. You can mention that.
Paul Lacey:
I love that. I’m only joking.
Paul Lacey:
I’m only joking. The enemy.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Not the enemy.
Paul Lacey:
No. It’s a joke, isn’t it? It’s a
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, they they like to think so, but I’m like I listen to them thinking, oh, I really I I wanna be like these guys. I wanna do all these free offers.
Paul Lacey:
All these podcasts. They’re absolutely awesome. There’s this So
Lee Matthew Jackson:
We need more, to be honest. So if you’re listening and you’re thinking of starting a podcast, just do it.
Paul Lacey:
Do it. Yeah. Do it. She she contacted me. So I’ve got a new brand out of this out of just putting my design out there. So I I got a new brand that I paid for. I got amazing feedback to help me kind of decide am I personal brand or am I business brand? And I went to a personal brand because it was far more honest. That’s what it was at that point.
Paul Lacey:
I was one person with some friends and associates. And what’s the point in me trying to pretend I’m something bigger than it was? Mhmm. Let’s let’s and what I got some amazing feedback. People were saying, you’ve been doing this for, like, fifteen, twenty years. How are you not just saying, you know, you’re an expert? I was like, I just don’t wanna say that. So, anyway, Regina contacted me and said, how about I rewrite all this content that you’ve written on this page because it’s not that good. And, and I’ll try and help you tell your brand story on your home page. Like, that is amazing.
Paul Lacey:
How can I repay you? So I’ve helped with code, which is, you know, something she’s mentioned before as well, and design, and we’re really good friends now. So the the the power of the community in that case from putting my honest situation out there, my rough design, where I was struggling, where I needed help, absolutely created WP Blueprint. So I totally owe the creation of WP Blueprint in that brand to the community, they they massively helped with that. So that’s what I’ve been doing for the last year, building that up. That’s been going really well. Like you said, on the the website, it’s very clear what I do so I know what I’m telling clients what I’m doing now rather than just mumble something about websites. And, and I’ve started collaborating with people again, copywriters like Regina. And it kind of helped me to realize that, okay, I don’t need to just be me again.
Paul Lacey:
I can start to expand once again. So this just brings me up to the new thing. So that’s that’s what we wanted to talk about now. Is that right?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. I just found the post as well once you’re talking. So I’m gonna put a link so people can go and find the original design. You got PLM Creative.
Paul Lacey:
Oh, brilliant.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I can see as well where you’re going. Like, you can see you can see the direction you’ve started to go. You’ve, you know, you’ve split it out into the core services. It’s more like a one one landing page.
Paul Lacey:
There’s a landing page. Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Exactly. But it’s really good. And then you but you can still see elements of it actually in your now current design.
Paul Lacey:
So Yep.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Guys, before we carry on, before you do, if you don’t use Beaver Builder or you do use Beaver Builder and you’re not aware of the community, then Dave Toomey has created one of the most amazing groups ever in existence. Just type in Beaver Builders into Facebook. We will put a link as well in the show notes. You gotta be a part of this community. It is one of the best communities in existence other than the WP Innovator community, obviously.
Paul Lacey:
Yep. It’s definitely the
Lee Matthew Jackson:
second best. Second best. Shout out to Dave. Anyway, carry on young man.
Paul Lacey:
So yeah. The the huge support the community has provided and that is the big communities like the Beaver Builder group, which is almost 10,000 people strong now. Yeah. Then the communities, you know, like your own group, which is a more controlled kind of set of what have you got now? 2,000 or something? I don’t know what it is.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Between 2,400, I think. Something like that. Yeah.
Paul Lacey:
It’s growing all the time. And then the really small communities, like our little private group that is top secret.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yep.
Paul Lacey:
And every every type of different group offers a different angle to building you as a person and allowing you to help other people build themselves as well. And the confidence that I’ve gained from this, the people that I’ve met, has really been encouraging to the point where I kind of feel, you know, I read that book, the E Myth Revisited, and this time, I’m not gonna just staff up technicians again. I am gonna come away from this sitting in a corner crying that it’s just me Pause. And, and I’m gonna build something again. And that’s where I’m at now. So I really am interested in productized webs WordPress services. That’s been something that I’ve had some success with with, WP Blueprint just through clarity. Just because clients have got clarity of what they want and what they want from me, and I’ve realized that some of these things are almost packageable.
Paul Lacey:
So I decided to keep WP Blueprint as it as it is. It’s kind of me as a consultant and an expert, doing whatever I want. And then myself and Peter, my old Dicky Birds business partner, and we always worked brilliantly together. It was only when we grew that we both didn’t really enjoy it that much. Mhmm. We decided to hook back up because he was a, I’d just call him a snobby developer designer. Yeah. Snobby I don’t and it is that a word? Just internationally, snobby.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I employed a few of those.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Yeah. So he resisted Beaver Builder. He resisted frameworks for a long, long time. He’s just an artisan of code and design. Snobby is the wrong word. I should be more positive about him, to be honest. He’s a super top guy, extremely talented.
Paul Lacey:
And finally, a couple of months back, we collaborated on a project, for a comedy club website. And he was like, Beaver Builder’s awesome. Why didn’t you tell me about this before, Paul? I was like, I’ve been telling you about this for a year, and you’ve just ignored me and laughed and pointed at your SAS code. And, so instantly, as soon as Peter got on board with, you know, GeneratePress and Beaver Builder and these kind of ways of doing things Yeah. I literally sat there in that conversation and said, Peter, should we start our agency again? But should we do it differently this time? He was like, that would be awesome. Let’s do it. So we we decided to do that, but in a different way. So, Dicky Bird’s agency, instead of being a freelance outsource, you know, kind of outfit for other agencies, We’re not doing that at all anymore.
Paul Lacey:
We’re purely gonna be 100 productized, WordPress services. Mhmm. Whether that’s maintenance packages or, web design, WordPress kind of, turnkey websites or rent your website on a monthly payment or consultancy calls. Everything is productized. So if a client comes to us with an idea and it doesn’t fit the DickieBird’s current packages, then we’ve got two options. We push them through a more consultancy type route through WP Blueprint, or we say, do you know what? Here’s another opportunity to create a another product type service for this particular client. And this is something we did with one of our first clients. We haven’t got a website yet, but we’ve got a few clients, which is we need to fix that.
Paul Lacey:
But
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s how I started, mate.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Yeah. The first couple of product type services that we’ve done, one of them is called community sites, and it’s a a kind of monthly payment system for small charities and community organizations who can’t afford to pay out a big outlay for a website. So we’ve it’s the kind of rent to website model. And our first client, we spoke to them and we worked out what that product should look like for someone like her company and the entire community that she knows. And she knows what works for them, what works their budgets, what helps their boards make the right decisions about signing off on investment. And so that’s a model that I think we’ll carry on with. Whenever we’ve got an opportunity to work with someone, we’ll say, hey.
Paul Lacey:
Would you like to do something new on this? You know, would you like to kind of help us with this product that we’re developing, and you will get a discount on this and, you know, all the kudos of And, also, it helps people get a big confidence boost themselves as a client to know that they’re part of building something really cool that they’re trailblazing for one of another word. Oh, I
Lee Matthew Jackson:
like that.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a good word. Word. Yeah. So that’s what we’re doing. We’re at Dicker Birds. We’re % product types agency.
Paul Lacey:
Our first hire is, Lindsay, who’s actually my wife, and she is the manager. So she’s a part time manager. So the first thing we’re doing is making sure that someone is doing the stuff that we never did, doing our accounts properly. We did do our accounts. Doing our accounts, chasing chasing money, doing things like every time we get a project, we send them a nice letter. When we finish a project, we send a thank you thing a thank you card, you know, saying you’re awesome and that kind of thing. Making sure we’ve got a brand message on all our kind of paperwork and all that kind of stuff. All the things that we don’t do because we just prioritize the technical work and the design work if we Yeah.
Paul Lacey:
Just throw a team of, you know, 50 technicians. We just focus on the job.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Instead, you’re focusing on your brand, on your messaging Yeah. The relationships Yeah. And you’re able to be very, very clear on these. These are the very specific things we do.
Paul Lacey:
Very specific.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So come in and look at this. Here is our shop front. This, this, or this. If you do not fit any of these models and we don’t feel we wanna create a product service around that, fine. We will recommend you to a friend. Otherwise, welcome and purchase this particular product. And now we’re gonna make you feel like royalty.
Paul Lacey:
Exactly. Because I
Lee Matthew Jackson:
love that, mate.
Paul Lacey:
We’ll have nice systems in place for that product that I mean, Chantelle, I can’t pronounce the entire name. It’s too long.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Please try.
Paul Lacey:
Chantelle from one Day Webs.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No. Please tap. Please try it now. Go.
Paul Lacey:
Chantelle Louise Betsy something long name.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
She’ll be so proud of you. Yeah. Yeah. So Chantelle knows you love me. So do I Betsy.
Paul Lacey:
You got it. You got it. That was so much more classy than I just did. But, I mean, you know, she’s she’s got a fantastic business. And whereby, you know, some of my clients of the past, by the time we finish the project, we’re at divorce stage, you know, but we’re keeping it on because we’ve got kids in the form of a website. With her clients, you know, her her clients at the end of their projects, because of the points where she’s touching them, throughout the journey, they come out absolutely, you know, raving fans for her business because she’s got the process right. And that’s something I always got wrong. I just made stuff up as I went along.
Paul Lacey:
And I think, when you’ve got the 02/2008 fast approaching, you know, changes in the air put politically, internationally, Stuff’s getting commoditized within our industry all the time. It is a time where we can either kind of sink or swim. And, you know, as far as I can as far as I can see, I’m seeing predictions from amazing people in the community. You know, the Jim Galliano has done some amazing predictions on this kind of stuff. So look out for Google Jim Galliano and and find his his writing. He’s a smart guy. And, you know, it feels like if you don’t keep changing and keep aware of what’s happening and take control of the opportunities that are there, you will have a hard time, surviving in the next couple of years. And and that’s where agency trailblazing for me is is super important because if you if you’ve if you’ve realized that you’ve got a problem, you’ve got to fix it.
Paul Lacey:
You can’t just keep, you know, hitting away at that problem and and hoping that it goes away through just doing longer and longer nights and more and more and more hours. It’s just gonna get worse. So quickly make a plan. Do a a series of pivots and make a plan to find the perfect route to the agency that you want. Go away. Imagine you know, sit there, meditate for five minutes. Imagine that you walk into your business the next day, and it’s looking exactly like your the the agency of your dreams. What does that look like? That’s what you’ve gotta do as a little exercise.
Paul Lacey:
And if that looks so far away from what you’re doing now, then, you know, why would you put yourself through that? Make a plan. Make some changes.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Mate, that’s so good and inspiring. I totally recommend doing that. Imagine the agency that you would love to turn up to or the agency that you can’t wait to get in on a Monday for, which sounds sad, but I actually I love time with my family. Don’t get me wrong. Yep. But I’m excited to get in on a Monday morning. And sometimes the weeks go too quick for me because I’m having so much freaking fun. Just a quick shout out, episode 61.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Guys, go listen to episode 61. That is with Chantal. Again, that’s Chantal Marie Laurence Sedois Betsy. I love that. That’s such a cool name. Or Chantal for short. Or acronym is CMLEB, which would be Khmelbeb.
Paul Lacey:
Khmelb rolls off the tongue.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
There you go. But she actually talks about her process. And, yes, her her clients become fans. She, even in February, this is, like, February, beginning of this year, wasn’t it? I I interviewed her. Yep. And she she already had the whole process nailed. She was able to turn a website out in one day and get everything prepared in advance and then be able to do one day of awesomeness. And, and she’s still doing it to this day even with a baby and everything because she’s got all of those processes.
Paul Lacey:
The processes are in place so she can scale it up, she can scale it down.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Exactly. And she’s created something she loves and she absolutely enjoys.
Paul Lacey:
When I when I saw her her process, I just it was like just jaw dropped. Just like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And I sent it to all my friends as well, your as your interview, I think it was. And we actually listened to the, the interview as homework within our, shared workspace here to What?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Of the WP innovator?
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. Because Cool. Guys, we’re all doing it wrong. Listen to this. And we’ll discuss on Monday.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Here’s your homework.
Paul Lacey:
It was, yeah. Because we we tried to kinda help each other out in a shared workspace and occasionally have a kind of get around the table and share our problems in a similar way to what we do online.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I love that you just told me that because here like, a lot of the time, I’ve done this podcast now. We’re we’re at well over a hundred episodes. Been doing it over over two two years now. And a lot of the time, you don’t know who you’re affecting or how you’re affecting people. And, you get guests on, and you don’t know whether people wanted to listen to that necessarily. You know? So, I mean, I knew that was an amazing episode, but I didn’t know who had been impacted by it. So it’s really good to hear you say, yeah. I remember that episode.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I made my team listen to that. I’m like, that is so cool. Yep. Thanks, mate.
Paul Lacey:
No worries.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Little tear in the eye moment.
Paul Lacey:
The terms the terms feed one was a great one as well. That’s been really useful for clients. Oh, good.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, you see, I was worried that was gonna be super boring, but I needed something super practical because terms is one of the biggest things that we all fail on. And I actually, to this day, have not actioned everything from that podcast. That is shame on me.
Paul Lacey:
No. I haven’t. But I’ve been working towards that direction.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’ve done it for the clients, just not for me.
Paul Lacey:
Exactly. That’s where I push people in the in this in this moment because your your terms and conditions are there to protect you Yep. And your company. So, you know, recommending someone just goes and gets some free ones off the Internet is probably not the best thing to recommend. No. And I did think that one was gonna be boring and there was nothing else to listen to. And, but I was completely blown away. So if anyone’s
Paul Lacey:
I made my ear on the wall.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Lacey:
Well, it just sounded boring, didn’t it? You know? But I didn’t know how
Paul Lacey:
to make it. Me and Larissa were trying to think of how to make the title sexy. It was just like, just do it as it is.
Paul Lacey:
But if so if anyone skipped that one because they thought it would be boring, don’t. It’s one of it’s amazing. It’s a fantastic episode.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. That’s hilarious. I can’t remember what episode number that was now. Let’s have
Lee Matthew Jackson:
a quick look. Somewhere, website. There you go. Episode number 79, terms feed. So, brilliant, brilliant episode. I do remember that. She was awesome, helping us kind of understand the mistakes that we are all probably making with our terms and conditions online, especially, because that’s I’ve actually got my terms and conditions nailed. The problem is is that I don’t present them online correctly, and it’s been one of those things on my Trello board that keeps getting moved on to the next thirty days.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I really need to sort it out.
Paul Lacey:
Depressing with that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It is. That was June when I added that. Oh my giddy aunt. And I’ve I’ve been procrastinating on that very important thing. But it is actually a very good episode. And there’s a whole range of different online tools as well for terms, like Simply Docs. We’re a member of Simply Docs in The UK, which is $35 for the business section. That’s all we need.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
We don’t we don’t need the employment or anything like that because we already paid for a HR consultant to give us our full package there. So that’s all sorted because that kind of needs to be very specific. But the, business side of things like terms and conditions, even for the new agency Trailblazer Community that we’ve just launched, at what what I say we’ve just launched. We’re we’ve just announced. We launched on the January 1. We’ve actually got the membership terms and conditions because they even cover things as as as complex as a subscription paid for digital content subscription website. So, again, we’ve been able to do those and then get a, a legal legal to have a look through and make sure that we’re not writing a whole lot of bluster. But, yeah, definitely a a good shout out for the episode.
Paul Lacey:
I think it helps your agency as well. You know, in terms of if you are if you’re an aspiring agency and you you don’t wanna be looking to in front of, clients to be cutting corners on anything. Nope. So, you know, if you’ve been kind of advising people for years to, you know, just go and get some terms off the Internet, copy someone else, which, of course, I didn’t do that. But to be able to kind of say, you know, to give that advice, is is a really good thing, and I wouldn’t have found out about any of that sort of stuff had I not been within the community again. So there’s just all sorts of amazing benefits.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Brilliant, man. Good times, guys. If you are not a member of a Facebook group that we have, that is the WP Innovator Facebook group. Just go to WPInnovator.com/group. That will redirect you. If you’re not a member of the, Beaver Builder group, check the show notes. And let’s give a shout out as well to the WP Builds group and podcast. Brilliant group.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Brilliant podcast. Also, Content Creators is a great place if you’re an agency that creates a lot of content. Then go ahead and check out Kim Doyle’s group, which is the, the content creators group. We’ll put a link for that one in the show notes as well. But there is something really powerful about community, and there is an episode I did a few I feel like it was, like, in the thirties now where I talk about networking.
Paul Lacey:
Nineteen thirties?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No. Yeah. Back in the thirties.
Paul Lacey:
You’ve been going for a long time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Episode 37. I was right. Episode number 37. If you go check that out, I talk about networking for business. But one of the things I talk about this is back in 2016. So this is like, yonks ago. It was on my birthday, this one. For my birthday present, I recorded myself a podcast.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I actually talk about networking online as well. So I talk about the old, you know, the old general old fashioned networking that you can do where you stand up and give your pitch and all swap business cards and have a really fatty breakfast. But there’s this thing about online networking as well. And one of the things I talk about in that I remember was having a laugh and making friends and having banter. And that’s something that me and Paul do quite well with each other. We were ban we were banterlicious as Larissa would say just before this podcast happened. Yep. And she’s just nearly spit all the tea out.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Sorry, Larissa. But, yeah, I do recommend joining in these groups and finding out more about the community. If you’ve listened to the podcast for years but haven’t got involved in the communities that we have around here, don’t have to be WP Innovator. It could be WP Bills, Beaver Builder, wherever your interest is. I just recommend you become a part of a community because it has helped shaped Paul’s business as he’s told us today. But it’s also shaped shaped my business as well, you know. I I thought I was just going to launch a podcast and and that would generate me clients, which, obviously, it has. But it’s actually made me realize my what my core passion around starting Angle Crown was to take an element of stress out of agency life, by, you know, doing the whole the build portion and the project management.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But it’s now escalated, especially with feedback from the community to the point where we’re launching the agency trailblazer community where we can educate agencies on how not to be stressed in the entire realm of agency life, how to create an agency they love. And this story from you, mate, has just been so freaking inspiring. And I cannot wait to see where your new agency takes you or your new track in life.
Paul Lacey:
Yeah. No pressure.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Thank you so much for your honesty. You’re a legend, mate. What are the best ways for people to connect with you and then we will kiss your bald head goodbye?
Paul Lacey:
Mhmm. You can find me on my website which is wpblueprint.design. Mhmm. I’m on Twitter, WP underscore Paul Lacey. And I’m probably most active in the all those Facebook communities that you’ve just mentioned. You know? I’m I’m in those all of the time, learning and giving and just making friends and having banter. So if you if you’re in any of those groups, if you’re not join them, and then you’ll definitely find me in there. I’m super excited about the Trailblazer community.
Paul Lacey:
I know I’m gonna be contributing, but I can’t wait to find out what I’m gonna gain from that. That’s gonna be another game changer. Yet another one.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Mate, neither can I?
Paul Lacey:
I I can imagine.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I know what’s inside. I’ve been building it. But, yeah, I’m I’m very grateful to people like you as well for agreeing to be a part and contributing. Oh, that’s fine. I think it’s gonna be a great space to to cover your journey as well over the next year. A great place for you to be accountable as well. Yeah. Absolutely.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You’ve set a plan, and we wanna know how that goes. And you can you can be doing all that in the forums and
Paul Lacey:
That’s right.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think the great thing about it as well. I mean, one one thing that, people may be concerned of is is that if you’re joining an agency community with lots of other agencies, then surely you’re you’re giving, you know, you’re giving away information to other agencies to copy. But just remember, it was actually young, Troy Dean from WP Elevation. He was on an interview with us, a few episodes ago, and he’s he talked about the abundance mindset. And, actually, if we lock ourselves away from people who could be our competitors and and and instead you know, then we don’t get the opportunities and we don’t get the learning and all of that that we could have had. If we actually, you know, in theory, me and you, Paul, could be perceived as competitors because you absolutely could approach my clients and offer the same sort of services. Anyone could probably listening to this show. But the idea here is is that where there is enough business for everyone and we’re all learning from each other and we’re all here to support each other.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Because it is absolutely lonely even if you’ve got a team of 50 people in your company. It is still lonely being that one person in charge who’s gotta deal with everything and work the late nights until midnight or 2AM, you know, doing all sorts of stuff that you’re just not good at. Maybe it’s admin or whatever, all of that stuff. So, yeah. And you don’t have
Paul Lacey:
to be on your own anymore.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Exactly.
Paul Lacey:
There’s just a
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Big group hug everyone. Yeah. Alright, guys. Show notes will have links to all of the ways that you can connect with Paul. We’ll have links as well to those amazing communities that you can be part of. Obviously, we have, shared about the Trailblazer community as well. There is no hard sell. Go and try out these free communities because they are amazing.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
If you wanna be part of our specific community, that is also great. Be sure to head on over to agencytrailblazer.com and get on the list before the January 1, and we will tell you when that page is live for you to join that community. That is gonna be $49 a month lock in for life price, from January for the first two hundred people only and 299 per year. Again, you can lock that price in. Again, and it’s only for that whole first two hundred people. Then after that, we are gonna close the doors for a few months and just give those people tons and tons and tons of TLC, tender loving care and hugs and kisses. And then we’ll reopen the doors, and we will never offer that price again. And I when I say that, I am not a sleazy marketer.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
You’ve if you’ve listened to this podcast for two years, you know that. But I’m never gonna go that low again. So there you go. Sounds like a hard sell. I hate sounding like a salesman. But, hey, I learned one thing. If you want to what was it? In in order to build up your influence, you need to be seen to sell. So here we go.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
This is me building influence. Paul, you’re a legend.
Paul Lacey:
Thanks, man.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Thank you so much for your story. I love you, man.
Paul Lacey:
Love you too.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yes. Yeah. Had to think of that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And with that, we shall end the show.
Paul Lacey:
I’m loved. Bye bye.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And that wraps up today’s show. Now, if you are on Spotify, guess what? So are we. Just tap in agency trailblazer into Spotify and you could subscribe in there as well. If you’ve been enjoying this podcast over the last few weeks, months, or even years, please head on over to iTunes to give us a review there. We’re also on Stitcher, we’re also on Spotify. I don’t know if they can do reviews yet that would be pretty cool if you can do a review on there. Hey, go check that out, let me know that’d be awesome. Until then enjoy your Christmas, enjoy the holiday season, kick off your slippers, put your feet up, get a beer or a coffee or whatever it is that rocks your boat and just have a wonderful relaxed time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Try not to work if you can help it and we will see you soon. Oh, and don’t forget agency trailblazer Com for more information.
