Questions That Changed My Agency Life

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Verbatim text

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So let’s take you on a journey back in early two thousands. Yeah. I think early two thousands. And you had a young 17 year old Lee who just spent the last few years teaching himself how to design and build websites. How I started doing it was actually because I purchased what was called an Amstrad PCW 16. It’s a word processor in Britain by, Alan Sugar, the Amstrad team. Didn’t go on the Internet. Didn’t do very much, but I absolutely loved it and I essentially created a website on Tripod and told the world about how amazing it was and connected with loads of people around the world finding software, finding ways to make that PCW 16 do a hell of a lot more than it was ever designed for.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So this was me being a complete nerd, but because of that I was having to understand how to build websites. Thankfully, Tripod didn’t have anything like a web builder. All it had was a glorified FTP. It was done via your browser. You would upload your files, etcetera, and you would go to your Tripod URL, which back then had that little tilde. It was like tripod.com/tilde or whatever your name was. So that’s how I learned HTML. And very soon after that, I knew I wanted to run some sort of business.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I thought I wanted to run a print company. I thought I actually wanted to print stuff. I actually had a business plan. I was gonna take that business plan aged 18 to the bank, but kinda knew that I was just gonna get left out the door being 18 years old and having never had a proper job or any experience in printing. How was I gonna become a printing company or even get loans or any of that sort of stuff? So I knew I needed to do something to start to earn the money. And the first thing I thought of was selling web builds. I was like, yes, I can do this. I I’ve I’ve worked out how to do it for my my computer that I love so much and why the heck not? Let’s let’s go and approach local companies.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And that’s exactly what I did. So young 17, 18 year old lad started going around the local shops and before long, I had a few clients. I was I I worked for a lingerie company. So that was a great job as a young lad having to scan in all those images and and put them on the website and put all the details, etcetera, of each different type. And it was a very regular work because they had a regular turnover stock. So I was having to take, all the new images, put them online, put all the information on there, etcetera, and keep that site up to date. So there was that project, but also those multiple antique websites because where I live used to be right at the beginning of the February, a thriving village for antique shops. There were antique shops absolutely everywhere and I was the web guy for antique shops for a while.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think that was my first accidental niche. Before I even realized I was niching, I was the web guy. First of all, started with the antiques shop that was just right behind our house and then essentially spread out as other antiques dealers understood what I was doing. They wanted me to do that for them and there was a wide range of of services I was doing. Again, it was all just accidental, you know, 17, 18, 19 year old Ladley doing all this stuff. It was things like putting stuff on eBay, taking pictures and getting them on eBay. There was building the websites. There was, helping them send emails, and we didn’t have these cool email platforms back then either.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was it was all just sending emails through Outlook to groups of people and trying to make the email look really good in Outlook, etcetera. So this was really, really early days, but a great experience in earning some money. And to be honest, I was just going from check to check trying to work my way through this with, again, no real business experience. Then I came to a point where I wasn’t making enough money. I now had a girlfriend, which, you know, you have to you have to have some regular income if you’re gonna have a girlfriend. And, you know, I was, like I said, go from check to check, hustling to try and get money in and realized I needed to get some sort of income because I didn’t have the necessary skill to run a business. I was lazy. I wanted to spend as much time as I could with the girlfriend and, you know, running a business.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I just wanted to do the cool bits of the business. I didn’t understand anything else. So I I went ahead and I got a job, and I started working, first of all, in security. So security, I’m sat at a desk all night. So that’s four nights, and then four nights off. So six till 6AM, and we would watch CCTV cameras. And during that time, when there were no alarms, because you would actually respond to each alarm call and have a look at the CCTV images, I was reading books and it was books on business. It was also books on, development.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was books on understanding, web services. So I was starting to get into things like PHP, etcetera. And I was also getting the opportunity to practice, on the computer, actually creating some code, etcetera. And because I had four days off, I had four days then of being able to continue to hone my skills. So I was there for, I don’t know, two or three years and eventually started applying for jobs where I knew there was something to do with websites involved. Managed to bag myself a job with a company where I was working as the sales executive selling access to a childcare website that they had produced. They produce this very basic website and were wanting to sell advertising on it. So that became my job and I was selling advertising on it, but very soon it became clear that there was so much more that we could do with this website.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I essentially, by accident, I guess, became the web developer. Not only was I the sales guy, but I was also the web developer. I was creating ways of selling further options. You know, I was coming up with new ideas. This again, this is all new. I was doing it like a featured you could be a featured company or you could have a featured job and then splitting that into categories and having a feature in a category and all that sort of stuff. So this was me really honing my skills but giving myself new things that I could sell. So as I was in a telephone call with someone trying to sell them something and they seem to allude to some other idea that maybe we haven’t quite developed yet, then, you know, little young whippersnapper me was like, yeah.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, that sounds like great idea. Yeah. Sure. We can do that. And lo and behold, I could make that. I could build that into the system and then we would be able to make that sale. So I really enjoyed that, but I wasn’t really enjoying the the sales calls aspect of things. And a position came up in the IT department.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And this kind of is quite separate from web development because this is working with networked machines. But I had a massive interest in computer builds. I built computers for years even right back in the amstrad PCW sixteen days. I’ve I’ve ripped that apart several times and rebuilt it. So I figured, well, the money’s gonna be a lot better. There’s not the stress of the sales and meeting the quotas, etcetera. But also, it’s gonna be a good opportunity to be part of a team of people, a group of people who are very professional, who have a lot of processes and a lot of understanding about working together and doing very complicated things. All stuff that I’d never done.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Right up until this point, I’ve always been a one man band. Even in business, it was always just me doing the job that I was given, not really working with anyone in a team at the CCTV. It was me at my desk doing my thing, looking after my alarms. When I was working on the website and doing the sales, it was me working on the website and doing the sales as a desk in the corner of a much bigger business that did completely different things. I was just this idea they’d had sat to the side on my own. So being able to move over into the IT department and learn all of these things was absolutely mind blowing and it was probably the best decision I ever met made. I must admit I was a complete twerp a lot of the time. I had a huge chip on my shoulder because I saw myself as some sort of big cheese.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m the big businessman. I know all these sorts of things. So I must have been a complete nightmare to work with and I’m sure some of the managers thought I was an idiot And they were not wrong. I was definitely an idiot a lot of the time. But I did also learn a lot of really important things. Being a part of that team was super important. Number one, I started to understand that I needed to be more responsible. I had to be responsible for what I was doing and making sure I was doing a good job.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I also learned that I needed to, I needed to adhere to processes and procedures and that they were there for a reason. They weren’t there to spoil my fun which the child in me might feel, but they were actually there to protect me and to protect the people that I was looking after and actually to make everything a hell of a lot better. So I learned a whole load of stuff. Took me a long long time, had a massive chip on my shoulder like I said. A lot of arguments, a lot of rebelling. So eventually, I I kind of got to where I wanted to be in that company. I wanted a new challenge and I always thought, well, maybe I wanna be IT manager. There’s always that urge inside of me to just be that one next step along.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And when you’re stuck in a particular position, you you feel like, well, what’s next? What’s next? So that’s what was bothering me for a few years and eventually, I thought, well, I wanna be IT manager. That’s my next position I wanna aim for, but I’m never gonna be able to do that in the context of this business because this was a huge global corporation with multiple ID t excuse me, multiple IT departments, within that multiple levels. There was no way I was ever going to be able to get to the IT manager in that sort of environment, which also required you to have some, qualifications and skills that I didn’t really have a hope in hell of getting because they required degrees, etcetera. So I knew I needed to kind of look elsewhere for that sort of position. And I used to find myself a senior networking position in a different company, which was literally down the road. But the beauty of that was it was a small company of about 50 people, and they they grew to rely on what I was doing. Thing is though, I was back to being that one man guy. They’re my kind of happy place, but what I took with me was all of those processes and procedures and those understandings the understanding of how important all of those were.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I had a three year stint there. Eventually became the IT manager and, also helped them roll out their CRM platform, which was on Salesforce. Got to cut my teeth again on development and built a whole load of extra plugins for Salesforce for that business to enable them to do a whole load of things they’d never done before, as well as got to build out, several microsites they wanted to build. And also then ended up working on the corporate websites because there was a parent company in a different country. I got to work with those guys as well on the corporate website. So I really got a a wide range of experience just getting involved in all of those things. But again, learning the importance of process through all of that. So eventually, it came to that point where I was still dissatisfied.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I still wanted to do something. I knew there was something in me. I was still getting to do development. I was still getting to work on websites, which I knew all the time deep down was my absolute passion. The Internet was something that just made me go crazy with excitement, and yet, I was always stuck in IT. I’d gone into IT to get some experience in technology, in working in teams, and then kind of accidentally tried to work my way up in that thinking that that was now my thing, thinking that I had to do IT because I’ve done it now for so many years and and you just have to work your way up to be satisfied. But I was I was still dissatisfied throughout all that. I don’t regret doing any of it because it taught me a hell of a lot.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
But at the same time, again, I was at that point of feeling dissatisfied of wondering what was next. And one day, I got to meet a young man called Tim and a guy from my church had recommended we talk because he was looking for a web developer, someone to help his design agency so that they could take their designs and make WordPress websites out of it, but also to develop some software for the industry that they were in, which was the events industry. So we had a a meeting actually in this room. Where I am right now, we were both sat in this room in my home, and I was just showing him some of the stuff that I’d done over the last few years. I’d, by now, been building websites for ten or fifteen years since, you know, since the late nineties all the way through. And I had a whole lot of things I could show him, but I also showed him WordPress, and it absolutely blew his mind what you could do with WordPress. And within a few short weeks, I’ve done some freelancing work with them, and it was very clear that I should become a part of that business. And I did.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I joined that business as an equal partner, and we set up converting them from a predominantly design agency into a more full service agency, a digital agency where not only did we help with branding concepts, etcetera, and campaigns and all of those things, and then do designs and put those designs out there and send stuff to print, but we were actually able now to build websites and to create online solutions. And I’ve got many stories of times when Tim, the account manager, made amazing promises to clients that we could do something with the web. And I was like, you said what now? And somehow, I was still able to build it. It was like Tim would raise the bar ridiculously high, and that challenge was just so fun to me. And we actually created some amazing technology over the years there as we worked out our product that we had. We were trying to build a product for the events industry, but we also worked out how to do some really cool things in campaigns for our clients. This was before all of the myriad of software as a service products that are out there. Now this was back in those days.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
There wasn’t really that much choice for email campaigns either. Mailchimp wasn’t around and all of these cool automation platforms. So it was all very early days still. And I think that’s the beauty of the Internet. Even now, it’s all still early days. We’re in this this kind of time of automation and of lots of different products that will help us with our my marketing. But there is so much more we can do. There is so much more on the landscape on the horizon that, you know, that we can’t even imagine yet.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So that just kinda means that the Internet’s never gonna get boring. So, anyway, sorry. That’s a that’s a tangent. But so that’s where we were. But over the course of the that time in the agency, we we grew really fast and we were doing really well, but we started to realize that we were always super stressed. We were always working on projects as as fast and as furious as we could because we needed to pay all of our team. So we needed to get things finished so that we could then get them invoice so that we could get that money in the bank and therefore we could pay our team. But equally, we always realized that we had to keep our eye on the future as well and we needed to work on that pipeline so that whilst x and y and z were working on that project or the three projects that we had live, someone else was still working on the pipeline, still selling stuff, still managing to get things in so that we would still be able to pay our staff in three months or four months, five months, a year.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I kid you not, it was one of the most stressful times of our lives. We had to make an awful lot of decisions out of fear. Fear of not being able to pay our team, fear of not getting the the clients. Fear of losing our clients. And over a period of time, our self belief started to erode and and even our understanding of who we are and who our target customer began to erode as we started to accept jobs from people outside of the industry that we served because we thought that’s what we had to do to try and keep the cash flow going, to try and keep the projects coming in. We needed to appeal to more and more people. So we’d started on such a good basis with a footing in a particular industry, with a particular niche, with a particular product, with a particular message. But then because of the stress, we’d somehow lost sight of all of that vision and started to try and do everything we possibly could for all men.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So we’d gone from, you know, we’d gone from a very specific, hey. We do branding design and, and digital is in development to we are a full service for everyone. So nothing was off limits. You know, if people wanted to talk to us about SEO, then we would draft in an SEO specialist. And I was then having to project manage an SEO person and didn’t really understand it all, and they understood an awful lot of it. But, oh, man, it was just a nightmare. So we really, really lost track and started to to resent what we had, started to resent each other. It was a very, very difficult time, and there’s only so much I can say about it kind of in a public forum because it would I guess, it would kinda get awkward.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I mean, the beauty of it is is we were able to turn it around eventually when we finally realized that we’d gone off on some random fork in the road and just took a quick stop and said, what are we doing? We we have our product. We have our our niche. We have an amazing background of experience in the events industry, and yet we’re doing all of this other stuff. Once we kind of came to that full stop and realized and and took a step back, once we started to reset and go back to the beginning again of our understanding, that was when things started to change and we were able to fall in love with our our agency again. I know it sounds cliche. I’ll probably say it a lot of times over 2018, but we did. We started to realize our value again. We started to understand our industry again.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
We started to get exciting ideas that would help our clients, that would help our industry, that would improve the product that we had. It was a good time. It was finally, you know, time for us to to grow and to make a difference in people’s lives. And that’s that’s what happened. We were able to grow back out of the problems that we’d created for ourselves, but we created a much smaller agency. We’d gone from a large team of people, a lot of salaries to just a very small group of us who were serving the industry that we loved and that we enjoyed. And fast forward now, the company still exists. I’m no longer a part of it, but what’s happened was we we realized there was two very distinct branches and a lot of the times, they crossed over and it got very complicated.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
There was the product, the digital product that was our event engine. And then there was also the the design side of things which was a very specific designing, branding, etcetera for events in the events industry. So it made very much sense eventually to split them out into two small agencies, both of which exist today and both of which are very, very happy agencies and everybody is friends. I’m actually part of the event agent the event engine agency with Tim. And then we’ve got Dan and his team who are running the original business with regards to the design, etcetera. So it’s it’s funny the journey that you can go as an agency. It build this agency that you have kind of builds up as a result of decisions that you’ve you’ve made. It it’s built up because of stereotypes of what you think an agency needs to be.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
We certainly were building an agency that we thought we needed to build because we’d seen other people doing it in that way. We certainly thought we needed to have the big team to be the full service agency, etcetera. But, also, events had shaped the agency that we had as well. We’d had to surf through, and I’ll say surf. I I I maybe we needed to drudge or trudge through the the really difficult times, of the global financial crash where our clients, all of their budgets were halving, some clients just disappeared off the planet, etcetera. It’s a very difficult time. So again, because of those sorts of situations, etcetera, the agency had morphed. We’d lost control.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
We’d lost our vision. And the agency had morphed into something that none of us liked. And it was complicated, and it was difficult. And we needed to take that step back and say, what are we doing? Why are we running this agency? What problems are we solving? Who is our target market? And what do we love doing? These are are such essential questions. These are those questions. They are the questions that we unpack together as a team, which eventually led to the two small happy agencies, both with small offices, with small teams, doing some very, very specific things and growing and happy. And as a result of that, I knew I wanted to make agency life less stressful for other people, which was why I launched my business, Angled Crown. I originally called it Lee Jackson Dev because I pretty much started as a freelancer.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
I was just going to be a one man band consulting agencies and also doing web builds. So the two core products were, first of all, designed to WordPress theme. And then the other one was doing consultancy as well, helping design agencies specifically who had a print background understand the world of the web so that they could actually quote on websites, which obviously would then feed background to my other service which was converting those designs into websites. So that was the ideal scenario. And I was focusing on very specific areas of stress for a very specific type of agency. Design agency with the background in print, didn’t understand digital very well, and also needed the actual service of web development. And it worked really well. It was exactly what I’d had the privilege of doing in my previous agency, helping that print agency, designed to print agency get to become a full service agency and then eventually these two different agencies with two very different focuses in the same industry.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
So when I first started, it was just me and Karthik. But it became pretty apparent that there was gonna be too much work for just the both of us, and that’s where we started to grow the agency as new employees. I started off on an apprenticeship scheme, which meant I was able to get somebody who had just left school, who didn’t wanna go into higher education but actually wanted to learn on the job and then there would be some form of government subsidization. It’s a a UK program. So it allowed a small company like me who couldn’t necessarily afford a brand, you know, a full time employee at a full time salary in The UK, but would actually help me have that employee for very cheap whilst giving the employee the benefit of the training. So it’s it’s, I guess, it’s a mutually beneficial arrangement. They get the training to set them up for the world of work. I get the employee for a very low cost.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And then, eventually, we had Larissa who actually stayed on beyond her apprenticeship and is with us full time as you know, along with the rest of those guys. So just before Larissa joined us, I realized that I needed to get my message out there. There was two things I wanted to do. I wanted to help other agency owners. I was an agency for agencies and I wanted to help those agencies because I could see they were going through a lot of stress. They were going through problems that I knew I could help them with. A lot of those problems were around web development, and WordPress is such a great solution. So I launched the WP Innovator podcast, specifically, a, to help people with that problem.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
But also the other reason was to help elevate my profile and hopefully generate me leads because, obviously, I’m helping other agency owners, and those agency owners are designers. They’re probably gonna wanna work with me at some point on the build. So that’s the birth of the WP Innovator podcast, which you’re still listening to. It’s just now the agency Trailblazer podcast as of very recently. And if you’re not sure what that’s all about, if you’re a newbie to this show, then just go back a couple more episodes and, you’ll understand what has just transpired. And over the years, the podcast has just kind of blown my mind. It’s gone way beyond any expectations I had. I thought I was only gonna get maybe a a few downloads a month.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Instead, we’re getting thousands upon thousands of downloads. We’ve got a thriving Facebook community of freelancers, of agency owners, of WordPress enthusiasts, and and where we are today completely blows my mind. I’ve learned so much from the guests. I’ve learned so much from everybody in the community and from everyone as well who has reached out and shared their stories either via the podcast or with me directly in a personal way as a result of the show. So it has been an absolutely phenomenal journey. And again, if you just switch back a couple of episodes, I unpack that story in a bit more detail as to why this podcast has actually changed and and why we’re expanding the journey that we’re on. But I just wanna wrap up these particular ramblings of my journey over the last few years with just some key questions. I want you to think about the agency or the business that you have right now.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And can you recognize any of the things that I was struggling with in my past agency life? The stress, the cash flow problems, not actually liking what we created, working with clients that maybe we didn’t like very well, or not being able to charge enough. If these any of these are problems that you’re having, then I I just wanna encourage you that there is hope. We’ve been on a a very long journey and had to make some massive mistakes, but learned an awful lot and come through the other side. And if you listen to Paul Lacey, he’s the previous episode to this. That’s a fascinating story of of, kind of meandering way his way through agency life in many different guises. And I wanted to just pose some key questions to you to ponder, to maybe have a look and have a look at your agency and ask these questions of your agency. And the first one is, why are you running your agency? There is a book that I highly recommend you go ahead and check out, And that is all focused around finding your why. It’s by Simon Sinek, and it’s finding your why personally, but also enables you to find your why as a business.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
Having a mission, having a vision is so freaking important to any business or to anybody’s life because if you’ve got no vision, no mission, no why, no purpose, then everything you’re doing kinda feels like a waste of time and it’s very unsatisfying. Next question is what are your strengths? What are you really, really good at doing? What do you really love doing as well? It tends to be that what you really love doing tends to be your strength as well. The reason why I ask what are your strengths is because if you are running an agency where you’re operating in areas that you don’t like, that you don’t excel at just because you need to pay the bills or because that’s what you’ve accidentally created, then having a look at what your strengths are and having a look at what your why is kind of correlating the two, that kind of gives you a focus for where you wanna go. My why is this? My strength is this, which then leads to your next question. What problems do you solve? What problems do you solve for your clients? What are your strengths? And from those strengths, what problems do you solve for your clients? Next question would then be who do you serve? And that would be your niche creating your avatar and your niche. So who is what’s the the industry that you are in? And what is the avatar? What is the ideal person or persons that you are appealing to that you help? Why are you running your agency? What are your strengths? What problems do you solve? And who do you serve? Who do you solve those problems for? What industry? What is the avatar? They’re just some real key questions that will really help you to reevaluate the agency that you have to set up some form of vision and to be able to create a list of services that you would love to offer the world to a very key specific set of people. And that is going to be the basis of an exciting new chapter in your agency life. I say that because these are the questions.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
This is the process that we went through, and it became an exciting new chapter of our agency life. And in fact, from that process spawned two exciting agencies with two very specific missions and two very specific avatars. So I hope you have been a bit interested in this journey. I kinda felt like it’s a bit boring, but I don’t know. Maybe you enjoy it. I love listening to other people’s stories, so I figured I would tell mine anyway and let you enjoy it and take from it what you will. The main point here is that failure is fine. Being an agency owner and having created something, you know, potentially by accident or because of whatever the circumstances are and not necessarily liking it anymore is totally fine and totally normal.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
It actually happens to people. But, also, there is light at the end of the tunnel. You absolutely can turn things around. It’s never too late. You totally can do what you really love to do. Now you’ll be aware that we are launching on the January 1, the agency trailblazer community. And this community is very much focused on stressed agency owners. That’s design digital creative agency owners who have got to the point where they want to change things in their business.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And we’re doing over the first five months of twenty eighteen, the agency reset. It’s the agency reset track where we go through the questions that we asked today, but also we go much further. And we have a look at your agency structure that includes things like your team members, your outsourcing practices, your physical locations, your memberships, your associations, costs, all of those sorts of things. We also go into your products and services in a much deeper level, trying to understand, those services, how to sell them, how to scale as well those products or those services. We’re also looking at your clients. Who are drainers? Who are your time wasting clients? We we we kind of grade our clients as a c and a b and then an a client. Obviously, you wanna keep your a clients. You wanna lose your your c clients and then maybe even most of your b clients.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And then finally, we go into your messaging. Now that you’ve done your agency reset, your message will have changed, and you’re gonna be talking in a different way. And you wanna emphasize that. You wanna talk in this new way. You wanna communicate the why that you have, unpacked. You wanna communicate the vision with people. You wanna communicate that at those specific types of people that you’re targeting, etcetera. So we we’re going through things like your website, the wording, you know, building things like case studies and all that sort of stuff, but also, understanding branding in more detail, your actual branding.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
You may do branding for other people, but this is understanding the branding of your agency. So that’s the reset track. But also inside of that, we are doing a monthly mastermind call that’s with myself and, you’ll all be able to log in, be able to ask questions live during the show or submit them in advance. We also have workshops that we’re adding to, every single month and that’s workshops from myself, but also from industry leaders all around the world providing advice on key subjects like social media, like project management, like time management, development, etcetera. All the key issues that agency owners wanna have a twenty to thirty minute understanding of. We don’t wanna create a place where there are ten week courses that are really complicated and and time consuming to consume, but we wanna create small, no BS, twenty to thirty minute workshops that people can listen to and then go and take some action as a result of. Just like you were at some sort of seminar and you’d go to a thirty minute workshop and then you would have your keynotes to go and take some action. So that is what is in there.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And finally, we also have the main community in there as well. That’s a forum area where we can track our own growth reports. We can talk to each other. We can support each other and help each other out. That’s over on agencytrailblazer.com. WP Innovators, the first two hundred members are gonna get that at $49 a month for life or $299 per year. Again, that is locked in for life for the first two hundred people only. If you wanna be a part of that, again, head on over to agencytrailblazer.com.

Lee Matthew Jackson:
And finally, don’t forget if you’re not necessarily interested in that, that is totally fine. You can still be a part of our free Facebook group, which is the WP Innovator Facebook group. Over on WPInnovator.com/group, you will be joining 1,300 plus agency owners, web designers, developers, geeks, awesome people, all talking WordPress, all talking design agency life. It’s a wonderful, wonderful place to be and it’s one of my favorite places on the internet so we will see you there the bpinnovator.com/group and guys have a wonderful twenty eighteen