Note: This transcript was auto generated. As our team is small, we have done our best to correct any errors. If you spot any issues, we’d sure appreciate it if you let us know and we can resolve! Thank you for being a part of the community.
Verbatim text
Lee:
Before we start today’s show, let me share with you something super exciting that we are launching. That’s an event here in the uk, all around helping you transform your agency. So if you look back over the last year, maybe two years, and feel frustrated that maybe you’ve not moved forward, then this is the event for you. Cheque it out over on Agency Transformation Live. That’s Agency Transformation Live. We have got speakers from all around the world here to help you plan your next 90 days, your next three months, your next year, whatever that needs to be to help you get the level of transformation that you need in your business. That’s AgencyTransformation live. We’ll see you there. Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host, Lee, and on today’s show, we are talking with Joana, who shares her story about creating an agency that works for her, her lifestyle and her family. It’s a brilliant episode, so sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. Welcome to a conversation with me, your illustrious host, Mr. Lee Jackson. And today we have the creative director and the co founder of GIF Design Studios, it’s Joana galvao.
Lee:
How are you today?
Joana:
I’m great, Liam. So excited to be here.
Lee:
I’m very excited to have you on here and we’ve known each other, what, two years now?
Joana:
I think so, yeah.
Lee:
Yes. From the. From the last Youpreneur summit and before that through James Rose.
Joana:
Yes. I was going to say that’s when I first heard about your podcast and started following you. I didn’t even know podcasts that were targeted at agencies existed, so I was happy to find it.
Lee:
No, no. And now James has got his own as well with the agency highway, which is cool.
Joana:
I need to cheque that out.
Lee:
Oh, wow, brilliant. You should totally go on that one as well. He’s great with his Australian accent. He can say anything. He could say something like really mean to me and I’d still think it’s great because of that accent he’s got. It’s just incredible. So whereabouts are you based, Joana?
Joana:
I am based in Porto, Portugal, the capital of port wine. Do you like the wine?
Lee:
I do love wine, yes. The capital of port itself.
Joana:
Yeah. It’s where port wine was invented and is made.
Lee:
That is so nice. So, for the drink connoisseurs amongst us, is there any particular brand you would recommend?
Joana:
I’m not that much of a connoisseur, but I do like Graham’s.
Lee:
Okay, I’ll go with you on that one as well. I think I’ve got A bottle of that at home, actually, which is fantastic. So Joana, instead of me butchering what you guys do, could you just give us a little bit of a background about who you are, what you do and just briefly, a little something as well about the agency.
Joana:
Sure. So Gift Design Studios is a full service design agency specialised in brand identities and conversion obsessed websites. We do believe that design follows function, so first and foremost we need to make sure that the websites are converting before we focus on making them look great. And yeah, we’re a team of 10 in Puerto, Portugal and I run the agency with my husband and we’ve been going, we’ve been doing this for four years now.
Lee:
Wow. And if we jump back into the time machine, when you and your husband were just starting to think about launching an agency, how did that all come about?
Joana:
Well, it actually started in London where we met. So I was working for a design agency as a web designer and I was, I was loving it, I was really enjoying it. It wasn’t like I, I didn’t like my 9 to 5. I did, but I didn’t have enough money to fly home to Portugal to see my family and I didn’t like the idea of only having 22 days off. I hear you a year. Yes. So I started googling, like, how do you freelance and how do you start getting clients? I came across Marie Forleo. Do you know, have you seen her show?
Lee:
No, but I will go cheque that out.
Joana:
Marie ForLeo has a YouTube show which is about how to get the life that you want and she has a course called B School, which is an eight week online programme that teaches you how to start an online business. When I saw that, I was like, this is perfect for me. This is going to teach me everything I need so I can make money on the weekends. But it was $2,000 and that’s not even how much I made in a year, you know, and living in London, it’s an expensive city, so I, I couldn’t even conceive of spending that kind of money. But during her launch, she had a video inviting you to finish the sentence. Wouldn’t it be great if. And I wrote, wouldn’t it be great if I magically got some freelance clients so that I can make $2,000 in 10 days before the cart closes? And I was really like, well, you know, it doesn’t hurt to try. And someone saw that and they said, well, budget is $800. Does that get me a logo? And I was like, whoa. You know, like, Lee, I’m curious, what did you first. Did you ever do logos?
Joana:
What would you charge for it when you were starting out?
Lee:
Well, I never did logos, but I did do a web build once for £150.
Joana:
Oh, wow. Yeah, that’s. So I was thinking of charging £50 for the first logo design.
Lee:
Oh, wow. You’d have never slept.
Joana:
But when. But I wanted to go into B school so bad that, you know, I was like, well, I can’t say no to this. I have to just add more to the package. So I created this package where I did three logo designs, I did a mood board, I did some social media collateral, and I sold it for $800. And lucky for me, this woman was already in B school. And that means that you get access to the Facebook group, which has currently 20,000 people running online businesses. So everyone in there was a lead for me at the time and she said, I really like you, really want you to get into B school. It’s going to help you so much. So I’m going to share what you do with everyone in the group. And that’s how I got my first 10 clients, made two grand in 10 days and got into B school. And the rest is history.
Lee:
The rest is history now. It’s really bugging me, I think the more you say B school, the more I seem to remember YouTube videos that a certain lady does and she’ll do like really crazy accents and has loads of fun. Is that the lady you’re talking about?
Joana:
Yeah.
Lee:
Right. Okay, I know exactly who you mean then I wasn’t sure. I’m not really good with names, but if I see a face or remember a goofy video, then I’ll probably know who you mean. They actually featured her, I think, in youpreneur Summit this year, didn’t they as well? They were talking about some of her work. I can’t remember which speaker was talking about that. So you made 2k then in B school to get B school. What was it within that then that helped you to grow your business? Because, I mean, obviously someone said, I’ve got £800 for a logo. It sounds like you wanted to throw in a few extra things there to make that £800 more valuable to that person. What was it in B school that led to your growth and eventually being able to launch the agency itself.
Joana:
Well, a lot of the B school content was useful, like getting clear on how to create packages, how to price your services, the type of copy that should be on your website, et cetera, you know, email marketing and all of that. Even though I only just launched my email newsletter two months ago, five years later. But I think the best thing for me that made all the difference was the group because I just started to connect with everyone in there. And if you imagine a group of 20,000 people who are going through a course that is telling them you need a website, it’s, you know, I just became the go to one of the go to designers in that group. And because I was starting out, I was. Now I understand I was really affordable for the work that I was doing. We were charging 800 a logo and 2000 for a website and we were making really great websites, if I’m allowed to say so.
Lee:
Well, I’ve seen your websites and they are really great.
Joana:
Thanks. You haven’t seen a four year old one though they’re not as good.
Lee:
I’m sure they’re still really great because you have a. Well, you are a designer. You have a very good attention to detail with regards to design. And I did Facebook stalk you, I’m afraid, before this and went right back. And even four years ago you were doing something like design December, et cetera. And your graphics there were.
Joana:
Oh my God, you went that far back.
Lee:
Yeah, sorry. Just needed to find out if there’s any skeletons in your cupboard that I could. But yeah, I can see you’ve got that attention to detail and I think excellence is right up there, isn’t it, for you. Excellence, cleanness and solving problems is definitely what I get from you and your entire company, in fact. And the quality of the images, I mean, if people. Go ahead, folks, whilst we’re listening, obviously you always know links are in the show notes as you listen, but do head on over and cheque gifdesignstudios.com and Joana Galvao. That’s galvao.com. Cheque out both those websites because the quality of the design, the typography is beautiful and obviously all of the imagery you’re doing is very high quality images and it looks fantastic. So folks, if you want some inspiration, go and cheque those sites out because they’re crazy good. You’re in B school, which is phenomenal, and you’ve got access to a community. I mean, how great is it to be a part of communities and make friends, et cetera? Were you finding that you were then getting recommendations because of those people from.
Lee:
For people outside of the group? And it continues to grow from there?
Joana:
Yeah, eventually that started to happen, but believe me, there was enough people in there to keep me busy for A lot of months. But what was. So what was funny in how I ended up working with my husband, because it wasn’t planned, was that I was just doing logos and I knew how to design websites because that’s what I did at my agency. But I did. I don’t develop. I still, like, don’t understand much about code, you know, I know enough to advise my clients on it, but I didn’t know how to develop. And so my husband, who at that time was managing a nightclub and had taken his degree in business and his master’s in marketing, he tells me, oh, but I know how to develop. And I’m like, how am I only finding this out now? Since when? And so it turns out that he always wanted to be a developer, but his dad, I think, discouraged him because, you know, at the time the Internet wasn’t a big thing and so he was telling him, like, I think you’d have a better future if you take business instead. And so he always used to develop as a kid, apparently, a lot of piracy, I think he used to do as well.
Joana:
He knew how to hack into websites and then share files online, you know, before Limewire existed and all those.
Lee:
No way. You’re ageing him now, by the way, because, like, LimeWire, I mean, I think there’s people listening to this who don’t even know what Limewire is or Napster or any of that.
Joana:
Yeah, I don’t think I ever used Napster. I’m from 91, he’s a bit older than me, but yeah, so he suddenly, he’s like, yeah, I can. Let me develop a website, let’s just do one as a try. And so I sold a website and I would design and he’d develop and that’s how we sort of accidentally fell into business together.
Lee:
That’s awesome. So, as happens, obviously, in many relationships, you find something out about your partner that you didn’t realise. Here we are, you’re a developer, closet developer, been doing it for many years and that’s actually very similar to me. I was developing and my parents said, oh, you need to get into it. So I became an IT manager and hated every single minute of it until was finally released. To develop. At what point did you decide to become an agency or did you recognise yourselves as an agency? Because at the moment it sounds like you’ve been doing graphic design. Freelancer. You’ve then partnered with your husband because you’ve recognised that the two of you could be the dream team. Did you just freelance together for a while or did you form the agency at that point, because it’s really interesting. There’s a lot of people right now who listen to this show who are actually at a similar point where they’ve partnered with someone and they’re not sure how to just make that shift.
Joana:
So it all happened really, really quickly and it wasn’t premeditated or anything. But what enable us to. Well, so let’s see. We start in March. By April, I’ve handed in my notice to my job, so I have more time. By May, we realise we’re fully booked until October with work. And that’s what made us realise we’re in a really good position to hire and to try out. And it was actually my husband’s idea. I thought, like, no, I’m 22 at this point in time and I don’t know how to be a boss. And I’ve been barely feeling like an adult myself. This is something that you do when you’re, like, 40, I thought. And so my husband, he says, and we weren’t husband and wife at the time, so even bigger risk. But he says, why don’t. Why don’t we try now? We don’t have any responsibilities. We don’t have a mortgage to pay yet, we don’t have kids. If you’re going to take a risk, now is the time. And you only learn how to become a boss by being a boss.
Lee:
Absolutely.
Joana:
And then that’s when he suggested we move back to Portugal. Because when we started looking at salaries in London and office rent in London, it just. It was just so, so expensive. And we both wanted to eventually move back to Portugal. That was always like the dream for us. It’s such a great country to live in.
Lee:
Yeah.
Joana:
And it’s where we’re from. He just called. He just made a couple of calls to his family to. To cheque if someone knew of a flat that was available for us, some office space. And by June, we were moving and by July we already had two designers.
Lee:
That’s phenomenal. I also felt like saying that this episode is sponsored by the Portugal Tourism Board. You were just pitching Portugal just then. That’s fantastic. And he’s absolutely right. You only learn how to become a boss by being one. I think I also learned how not to become a boss by a string of awful bosses that I had. But equally, when I look back, I think I was just an awful employee as well, with a massive chip on my shoulder, because really, all I ever wanted to do was be my own boss and didn’t like any authority. Whatsoever.
Joana:
Yeah, I only had 10 months. I only had a boss for 10 months of my life, so I couldn’t even draw on his mistakes or anything because I didn’t learn that much in 10 months from him.
Lee:
Well, this is a brilliant story. And I love as well how you wanted to create an agency that served you guys and what you wanted from life as well, which is to be in a country that you love, near your family as well, but also as a business, it makes a very good business decision, because it’s pointless being in London, which is super expensive, with really high salaries, when you could be at home near the family and have lower rates and lower costs generally, and live a better lifestyle. So that’s fantastic. And I absolutely applaud you as well for creating an agency that you live in a place and in an environment that you live. And that’s, I think, something that we often forget. We compare ourselves to other agencies and we think, I don’t have the huge office with the glass walls in London and all that sort of stuff. I’ve only got this little place here. But actually, if we think of all the other benefits we have, we get time with our family, we’re near family or whatever else it is, it’s actually about creating that agency experience for you and your team that works for you and your team rather than what someone else has.
Lee:
So, although I do absolutely envy your office, just saying, putting it out there, isn’t it funny?
Joana:
Like, the grass is always greener on the other side. I just had dinner yesterday with another studio owner here in Porto, a good friend of mine. He has 40 team members. They’re currently split between three offices as their big, big one is getting built. And it’s so easy for us to look at him, be like, oh, no, I want an office like him and I want a big team like he has. But then when we talk, it’s like, oh, we’re going through the exact same problems. You just have them on an even bigger scale than I do.
Lee:
Yeah, I do. In fact, everyone knows I love Walt Disney, and I read a lot about his life. And one of the biggest stresses for him was because it was so big, he was always constantly stressed with all sorts of problems, and I think he just kind of wished for a day where he didn’t have to worry about all of this stuff, even though he was super successful. So, yeah, as it scales, the problems just get even bigger, don’t they? Which is kind of scary. So you’ve got this agency, you’re now in Portugal, which is awesome. You know, the family and you’re staffing up, etc. I’m guessing when you started you had access to lots of business owners. I’m presuming they were solopreneurs, etc. How did your target audience continue to evolve and have you eventually niched down into a particular type of client?
Joana:
Ooh, good question. I probably should say yes. I know exactly the type of client that I serve and it’s my marketing is really targeted that them. But no, especially because I think that would drive my creative team nuts. If we only like, we only do dentist websites.
Lee:
You could do that on April 1, April fools and see what they do.
Joana:
Yeah, good idea.
Lee:
New direction for the business.
Joana:
Well, it’s funny because they’ve actually asked like, can we stop doing so many personal brand websites? But it’s what we’re known for. You know, we worked with Lewis House and Chris Ducker, Takimor, they’re all big in the coaching space and so we became kind of known in that industry and so I guess that was sort of the first niche that we had. But more recently we did a. I spoke at an E commerce conference in Austin, E Commerce All Stars and we started to get a lot of e commerce websites and for us it’s been a lot of fun because since we love branding, we’ve also been doing their packaging and their product photography and their campaigns. So the project suddenly becomes this like this 360, like there’s so much we can do there, there’s something to please everyone. There’s, there are things to please like the editorial fans on my team or the UX UI experts and then the branding and then the packaging. Like there’s a bit for everyone to enjoy. And so I would say those are our two big markets. It’s coaches and experts who have a personal brand website and E commerce websites.
Lee:
That’s brilliant. Absolutely love it. So you do have a niche. It’s just there you go, you’ve got two different niche areas. But also I assume as well if someone else comes along, you’ll do anything else as well. That’s interesting and exciting that you can add value. Now you did mention the personal brands and that’s something that you’ve been focused on for the last couple of years. Now, like you mentioned, you spoke out over in Boston and what led you to starting to develop a personal brand alongside of your already well known agency?
Joana:
Multiple reasons. I know from our, you know, mutual friend Chris Ducker how important it can be. I also also know that the Relationships that I built. You know, people don’t remember like if Lewis, if someone asks Lewis House, do you recommend anyone for websites? He’s not going to say gift design studios, he’s going to remember me. You know, for a long time I tried to fight this because I wanted, I wanted it to be about the agency. I wanted the agency name to be recognised. But at the end of the day we do business with people, not with brands. And so I realised that there was some benefit and starting to work my personal brand. I do try and give equal attention to both and, and maybe like I’ll post something the same in both accounts but I’ve noticed that it’s a lot easier to get traction with my personal brand because people feel like they’re talking to a person and not a brand. The other thing was from speaking at the E Commerce conference I realised that that brought in a lot more clients than anything else I have ever done, any type of marketing.
Joana:
And so that perked my interest in starting to public speak. But the other thing was that I was craving creative self expression a lot. You know, I’m a creative by trade, I’m a designer, I love creating things and putting them out in the world. But for the past three years I had just been managing and selling and doing business development and not creating anything. And so it was also like a selfish need that I had to feel creatively fulfilled and inspired.
Lee:
Absolutely. I can totally align with that. I spent two years of my agency just building projects and managing the team and doing all of the day to day admin and essentially a lot of stuff that I found terribly boring and depressing. And then when I launched the podcast that was kind of my outlet to start to do something and to create something I think as well with public speaking. That’s a wonderful opportunity to help lots of people. It’s like a one to many, isn’t it? You can go and stand in a room of 300 people and knowing that you’re going to help, at least say, let’s say 50% of that room are going to take something that’s going to change their lives and that’s something you’ve done for free, which is amazing. That’s kind of your, what’s the word? That’s your legacy as it were, that you’re leaving. But also equally you get the opportunity to work with a few people in that room as well. If I think back to the suppliers I’ve had, for example Phil Palin who did our design many years ago on the Ad Crown brand It was because I heard him speaking.
Lee:
I absolutely loved his messaging and what he was talking about with regards to design, etc. And I really wanted to align myself with him, you know, with his brand, with his company, and I wanted to do business with him and have his inspiration for the logo and the original branding that we did, which was phenomenal. So there’s an awful lot of power there. So you’re. You’re also speaking now around the world. What are your upcoming talks that you have coming up?
Joana:
So the two big ones I have coming up are Traffic in Conversion in San Diego in February, which I’m really excited about. There’s some great speakers that have already been lined up, like Rachel Hollis, Jay Shetty, Daniel Harmon and Laura Belgray, who’s Marie Forleo’s business partner on copycare, which is fun. And then I’ve got youpreneur in November in London.
Lee:
That’s so cool, isn’t it? Well, excited for that. Although I didn’t buy next year’s ticket yet, I totally forgot again, the second year running, so I’m gonna have to wait until it comes out.
Joana:
I know I have to buy some for my team as well. I’m hoping that I take some of them with us.
Lee:
No worries. We’ll all be whooping and heckling. No, we won’t. We’ll be very good. That’s fantastic for anyone who’s listening in, because again, this is something that’s been spoken about in the community group, folks. If you’re not a part of that, that’s agencytrailblazer.com group. That’s our Facebook group. It’s free to be a part of it. People have been asking as well how they can position the sales and get themselves speaking gigs, et cetera. How did you go about getting on stage and getting to the right places as well?
Joana:
So the first. The first one was sort of a happy accident. My client had a conference and he asked if I would speak. And I had already spoken at another stage for another client of mine, so I guess it was happening by accident. But when I realised the power, I decided to be really intentional about it. So the first thing I did was ask around, you know, who can help me get my speaking to the next level and help me get speaking gigs. I was referred to heroic public speaking with Michael Port.
Lee:
All right. Yeah.
Joana:
Which has been phenomenal. Michael Port is such a great leader in all aspects of life and he is phenomenal at what he does in teaching speaking. And so I went to his event in Philadelphia. I was completely sold. I signed up for their four month programme in person, so I had to like fly back and forth to New York for four months.
Lee:
Wow.
Joana:
And towards the end, I had enough that I could build a speaking teaser, so I created a script, I got a film crew and I got them to film around the office and film me speaking.
Lee:
I remember that. That was really cool.
Joana:
Thanks. Yeah, I’m really proud of that project. I think the team did a phenomenal job. Creative lemons, they’re incredible. And yeah, I just started to, like, ask everyone I know who could introduce me to event organisers and I had to sort of like step into, like, let me talk as if I do this all the time, you know, and, oh, here’s my speaking reel, you know, let me know what’s the next steps so I can speak on your stage and. Yeah, it’s sort of been like that, but I’ve been really intentional. I’ve been paying a lot of attention to who’s speaking and who’s organising and trying to become friends with them and it’s sort of like you email them once about something they’re doing and then you email them again a few months later. It’s sort of like flirting or dating, you could say, before you make the.
Lee:
Big ask, yeah, by the way, could I come on your stage? I guess it kind of is that. And I’ve always likened networking to speed dating. Well, actually networking is like just a regular dating, but then going to a conference is kind of like speed dating. Because any conference I’ve ever attended, even if I’ve not spoken, I’ve always ended up with clients as well and, or suppliers, because you all just get on. It’s a wonderful environment. It’s one, two or three days of intense learning, but equally, lots of time together and you just develop some lovely lifelong friendships as well, which is phenomenal. So even if people listening are not remotely interested in being on stage, at least be sure to attend some relevant industry events because it is great for your own learning. But equally it’s also great to be able to find new suppliers, new, new customers as well. A really, really good networking opportunity.
Joana:
I would say go to conferences that are not in your industry. Right. Because if you go to a Word, if you’re a WordPress agency and you go to a WordPress conference, you’re just going to be meeting your competitors, maybe. I’m sure you’ll get some valuable friendships out of that. But you want to go to where your clients are. I mean, you could go to a Dentist conference.
Lee:
Yeah, absolutely. I was exactly what I was going to say when you said that. Which is your new niche.
Joana:
So we will see you on the 1st of April.
Lee:
There’s conferences all around the world, which is phenomenal. Now coming into land. We’re wrapping up, but I would really love maybe a couple of tips on conversions because that’s something that you guys lead with. You talk about it on your personal brand website. You also talk about it on gift design studios. Have you any tips for our audience who might be looking at their websites now and feeling that a lot of people are landing on their pages but not engaging any one thing that someone could start to do to start to make some improvements with their website to just get some people talking to them.
Joana:
Oh, only one thing?
Lee:
Well, you can say several. That’s fine. I was just being kind in case you didn’t want to give.
Joana:
This is really, really tough to condense it. But just think like if you were meeting your potential client, what would you say and in what order? You wouldn’t just give them a 30 minute spiel on what you do. Right. You’d start by having maybe one sentence and then give them some room to inquire more and then give them three sentences and then think about it like a conversation with your client and try to put that on the page. So if you just open with like that one sentence and you’re waiting for the other person to reply, leave that room visually on the page because it’s like a silent conversation. It’s a one way conversation, but the scroll is equivalent to like okay, I want to know more and so don’t inundate them with a lot of text. Ask them questions too like you would in a conversation. So which one of the three do you need help with? Give them options to click to get them to interact with your website and then. Okay. One thing that really, really drives me nuts is pay attention to how you set type in your website. Don’t have lines longer than 12 words that span the whole entirety of the browser.
Joana:
I’m sure your audience don’t do this, but if they do, then they can fix that easily. Have it at least 16 pixels. I would say so that it’s easy to read. And if you want the viewer to read your copy, make sure it’s easy to read.
Lee:
Basically I like that idea, the conversational aspect of things. Short sentences leaving a pause as it were, for the person to think, respond and giving them the ability to respond as well. I think a nice example of that as well. Is on your about page on your personal brand. Joanagalvao.com got eight seconds. That’s all the time you have to capture your customers attention when they land on your page. And instantly you’ve already hooked me now because I’m like, holy crap, that’s eight seconds. What do I do now? And then you give them this option. It’s kind of like a pause and I’ve got this option now to scroll down where you’re kind of unpacking that for me and you’re giving me opportunities as well to respond throughout. Although when you said 16 pixels, I then instantly went into the Into Inspect tool to make sure that you had 16 pixels and your font size is 15 pixels. Do you want to punch me?
Joana:
That’s such a fail. I’m going to go fix that right now. But like I said before we started recording, I have not touched my own personal website in three years.
Lee:
It doesn’t look dated for three years. It looks great, so I won’t worry about it. The only thing you need to do by your own standards is increase that font size by one pixel and you’ve nailed it. So I am messing. That’s fantastic. Well, Joana, thanks so much for your time. It’s been brilliant learning your journey. So you’re just to recap 10 months in a paid job and then freelancing, being a part of B school and then just levelling it up with your with your then partner to go over to Portugal and build your agency and your two niches of personal brands, et cetera. It’s just been a brilliant story. I’ve loved every second of it. I’m hoping that it’s inspired people who are listening to continue to push towards whatever dream it is and also inspired people to build a business that suits them. That’s the biggest takeaway I’ve had from talking with you as well, is just creating that business that suits your family life and suits costs, etc. So you’re not always pushing it. Don’t compare yourself to other people, but build something that works really well for you. And I’m also loving the aspect where you’ve gone down the lines of E commerce as well, which is giving you projects which are across many different industries but allow you to do so much more within that, which gives each member of your team who has lots of different skills something that they can enjoy, which is going to keep your team happier, more loyal, less staff turnover, etc.
Lee:
Because they’re always going to be working on something new and different and exciting and it’s very clear again from the pictures on your website. So if people go again, cheque out gift designstudios.com you can see you’ve got a great team, people that really, really enjoy working together. So thank you so much. You’re an absolute inspiration. I can’t wait to see you on stage at YouPreneur next year. And let’s keep in touch.
Joana:
Thank you so much for having me, Lee. It’s been so much fun.
Lee:
No worries. Cheerio. And that wraps up today’s show. Now, can I encourage you to go ahead and cheque out Agency Transformation Live? It’s the event we are putting on here in the uk in about a hundred days, from the recording of this particular episode, we’re going to have speakers from around the world helping you create that next 20%, 40%, whatever it needs to be change in your business. So be sure to cheque that one out. It’s Agency Transformation Live. There’ll be myself there, there’ll be Troy Dean, Chris Ducker and many more from the community. So it’s definitely worthwhile taking a look. And we’ve already been selling tickets and I was surprised. I thought we’d only be selling tickets here in the uk, but we’ve got people literally from around the globe purchasing tickets and a raging flights. So look forward to seeing you there. Agency Transformation Live.
