Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.
Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the WP Innovator Podcast, the podcast for web designers and design agencies, exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now your host, Lee Jackson.
Lee:
Hi, and welcome to episode number 76 of the WP Innovator Podcast. This is Lee. And in today’s show, we’re talking to Brad Miller from Lift UX. He’s going to share his story of how his agency got started and how they’ve really niched down into some very, very unique services with WordPress. So I’m not going to spoil it. I kind of dropped a couple of spoilers last week. The fact he’s done amazing work with AMC and Disney, but I’m going to shut up. So please enjoy the show. Oh, actually, quick plug. Don’t forget, we have an amazing Facebook group with some awesome people in there. That’s WP Innovator.com forward slash group. Okay, back on with the show.
Lee:
Today, you’re joining me and Brad Miller from Lift UX. Brad, how are you doing, mate?
Brad:
I’m good, sir. How are you? Thanks for having me on.
Lee:
It’s all right, mate. I’m doing really good. I’ve, as you know, I’ve had some coffee, which means I’m back in action. I was flagging a little bit after a long day, but I believe it’s the big, is it beginning or midday for you guys?
Brad:
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s about, it’s, it’s right at the afternoon. It’s 12. So yeah.
Lee:
And you’re coming up to the super hot season, I imagine now in Florida.
Brad:
Yes. In Florida, it is going to be very warm. Some people would say sticky because of the humidity, but, um, but yeah, no, I mean, we actually, we haven’t had a lot of rain. There’s been a lot of wildfires here, which really is kind of, kind of uncommon.
Lee:
Yeah. Very uncommon here. Um, and so, uh, so we’re actually wanting rain. So we’re wanting that humidity hopefully soon, but, uh, but yeah, it’s been warm. Mate. You can always try one of those rain dances that I actually believed in as a kid. I honestly believed you could do a rain dance.
Brad:
I think when I was a kid, I think I did that too, uh, because I always like to play in the rain, but here, if you’re out in the rain, it’s not good because look, you know, obviously a lightning is not a good thing. So that’s, that’s, that’s true.
Lee:
I do love it though. When we’re out in Florida, cause we like to visit Florida and I do love it when it rains because it is so hot and then just the rain is torrential and you’re just like, wow. And like, just stand there in your shorts. Like, uh, is it rain man? What’s that film where the guy’s like stood there with his arms wide open kind of? Oh, oh yeah. That was, uh, that was, uh, uh, Shawshank Redemption.
Brad:
Oh, that’s the one. It wasn’t it? That was it. Yeah. No, that’s a great, that’s a great movie actually. It was just a great scene. It’s iconic. And there’s me still in the middle of the Florida.
Lee:
Yes. Freedom. He didn’t care. He’s getting rain now. He’s freedom, you know? So that was a great movie. Good times guys. Uh, welcome to our conversation. Anyway, uh, Brad is a great guy. Uh, he’s, uh, he’s like my twin, you know, kind of a bold head, but, um, uh, great glasses, good beard going on and a guitar. So we’re very happy about that. We we’ve just connected on so many levels and we love WordPress. This is nuts. So, um, Brad is from Lift UX. That’s a digital product agency, but rather than me murdering what you do, mate, how’s about I shut up and hand over to you to just give us a quick background of who you are, your favorite color or whatever, and also a bit about your agency.
Brad:
Yeah, absolutely. So, so Lift UX is yes, a digital product agency. Uh, we started the company back in 2009. I founded it with my business partner, Chris Wallace. Uh, Chris and I had spent a lot of time trying to find what we wanted to do in our lives. And I know that he was kind of in the same boat that I was and kind of looking to start something that was focused on user experience design. Um, so not just developing and building websites, but actually thinking how, um, they’re supposed to be built and you know, why, what users are looking for the strategy behind it. And so I had reached out to him and said, man, I’m looking to start something. I think it would be really awesome. And he’s like, me too. He’s like, I’ve got this name. And I said, I love the name. Let’s run with it. And, um, started in 2009. I left my day job in 2010 and we haven’t looked back since, but basically the company was founded on a principle of building and designing websites that have a solid user experience. And we love WordPress. And so back in 2009, we had been working with WordPress for years. I know Chris was doing a lot of stuff with themes and whatnot. And that’s actually one of the reasons why I reached out to him. Cause I wanted to focus my agency on WordPress development. I felt like, Hey, let’s design really, really good websites and let’s put them on, on WordPress. And so, um, that was a big focus of ours. So we were focused on user experience design and WordPress implementation. And so basically that’s kind of where we started. Um, our, our company is really big on, uh, design principles. Uh, we’re, we’re very much a design agency, but we have a really awesome team that does a lot of great WordPress development.
Lee:
I think I want to reiterate that mate, cause looking at your website is gorgeous. So let’s just pause guys. If you’re listening to the podcast, can I encourage you to just pause this podcast right now and head on over to lift ux.com and just spend about 10 minutes being amazed.
Brad:
You know, I’ll tell you this one thing it’s, it’s, we do get a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, um, compliments on that. And I would, I’d have to say, I’m going to have to plug, uh, Raji, uh, he’s at Raji R O R O G I E. Uh, he helped us with some animation work and we had like this idea lift ux. When we started the company, we really had, um, this infatuation with space, the idea of technology and exploration. And that’s the whole point of like doing really good ux work, right. Is you, uh, explore, you do discovery. And so when the company was founded, that was something that I always loved. And I know Chris loved because he designed it into the logo originally was a little spaceship with a thunderbolt that came out underneath the, yeah. So the whole idea is lift. Right. And so, um, so that’s kind of how we, we, we touched on it. And so when we got with Raji to help us, we were like, Hey, we really want to do something that is space themed. That’s just something we really, really like. And so we talked about maybe like a star field and he helped us put together something like this that we just, you know, when you’re focusing on other client work, it’s like, it’s hard to focus on your own website. You know, it’s kind of like the port, the cobbler issues are terrible, but everybody else’s are great. Um, so it’s like, we wanted to have something that was super solid and that is exactly what we did. We reached out to him and got some help with it. And we felt it’s a really good representation of who we are.
Lee:
That’s brilliant. Let’s make sure I get the spelling right. Was that R-O-G-I?
Brad:
Uh, yeah. R-O-G-I-E. R-O-G-R-I-E. And that’s on Twitter? Is that at Roger?
Lee:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Guys, we’re going to get that in the show notes because seriously, this is legendary. Uh, and if you want to know what I’m talking about, just mouse over the about button, you’re going to love that. Look at the Starscape, loving it. But also just kind of going back onto the point, what I like, what I kind of want to say is, well, you can tell that you’re a design agency. You can tell that you come from design background, you know, even for the things like the fonts, the sizing, you’ve got the line heights, the leading, the padding, all of that sort of stuff, the negative space, you guys are like nailing it. Uh, you’re ticking all of the boxes of design school and more. I’m loving this.
Brad:
Yes. I really do love it. And it’s very often you will see kind of a design, uh, kind of a web agency or a design agency that, uh, don’t get enough time. And I am one of those people. You don’t get enough time to look after your own website. And I look at my site sometimes and think it’s not bad, but it’s not great. There’s so many places I’d love to take it. Um, and, uh, yeah, I’m just very inspired by this. Okay. I’m done loving on you now. You can kind of, hopefully you’ll be able to get out of your room later on, uh, with the size your head’s probably got.
Lee:
I really do appreciate it.
Lee:
So let’s understand who’s, who’s involved then. So you’ve got, you’ve got you and Chris and you’ve got a team of people as well. Uh, are you a coder? Are you a designer yourself? What’s your role?
Brad:
Yeah. So I’m actually more of like a strategist and business kind of focus. Um, I am a bit of a designer in regards to kind of more of creative direction and sort of, uh, strategy. Uh, but execution, that’s something I always kind of had let Chris handle. Um, that’s something that he’s really, really talented with. And so I always felt like that was his, his role. Um, but typically, uh, when we, when we first started the company, I, I, I was actually doing WordPress development. Um, was it good? Probably not, you know, it’s more, I would say maybe more themes than anything. And, and, you know, kind of building themes, which I guess isn’t, isn’t, isn’t the terrible thing, but, uh, but yeah, I do love the whole creative aspect. I do love, uh, typography. I do love that type of stuff. So I love being a part of that, but my, my, uh, I guess talent is more so on the UX side. So I really love wireframing. I love coming up with, uh, um, requirements and working with clients and saying, okay, Hey, you got a vision. Let me help get you excited about that vision because I’m a dreamer. I can come up with something and usually developers hate me. Cause they’re like, wait, slow down, slow down. Don’t come up with that. Don’t come up with that. No, I’m going to work on that. You know, but, but, but I also come from a project management background. So, um, what’s, what’s made that interesting for me is I’m really good at strategy. So that’s been my, my focuses. So when we started the company, I focused on that part of the business is, is making sure that, you know, we had a process in place of how, how we executed on projects, how clients were taken care of from project management perspective, and then, uh, also business development and vision. That’s just something I’ve, I’ve been a big part of and I wanted our, our business to grow. And that’s what I focused on.
Lee:
You’re a rare breed mate, because to be able to have creativity and project management skills and kind of business strategy skills are not necessarily perceived to be, uh, things that would work well together.
Brad:
Right. You’re absolutely right. That’s usually developers either really, really focused on, uh, building code or designers really focused on designing visuals and may not want to interact with the client as much. And so that’s something that I did. I feel I brought a little bit of a uniqueness to our company. Um, for, uh, we also have one of our, uh, our director of technology, Christian is very similar in this and, um, he’s got, he’s an awesome developer, but he’s very good with clients in the project management aspect. He has a good understanding there. And so that’s really cool. And that’s, most of our team members are very similar in that way. Um, which is great. And I think it kind of makes us, we’ve kind of feel like we always, I always kind of, uh, say lift UX is kind of like a special forces team where we kind of get in, we can do something with a small team and get something done and then get out as, as opposed to working with a larger team that can execute on something on a larger scale. We can do it in a smaller, smaller group.
Lee:
I love the idea of you kind of all like zip wiring down the side of a building and smashing into the window. Go, go, go.
Brad:
You got it. Yeah. Like bridge the door, bridge the door. Quick. Add in a menu into that WordPress theme.
Lee:
On it. Awesome. Kind of, uh,matrix styles, screens happening all over the place. That’s amazing.
Brad:
Yeah. That’s what, that’s what I like.
Lee:
I’ve now got mission impossible in my head as well. Now I was just like with you, like you can’t touch the floor. There’s a bead of sweat coming off you and you’re like catching the bead of sweat and everyone’s just like, Oh, Oh, I know, isn’t it? It’s a classic.
Brad:
We’re going back to movies. Uh, I think there’s a theme here as well about, I have a feeling you’re a movie guy and I’m going to guess by, because I Facebook stalked you because that’s what you do when you run a podcast. I saw that you had a lightsaber in one of the pictures. So you did, you caught it. Yeah. Yeah. It was May the 4th, right? May the 4th. What is, what is your favorite star? Let’s just quickly go off topic and then we’ll get back in, but let’s have, let’s have a light mood for a second. What is your favorite star Wars movie and why?
Brad:
So that’s a great question. Um, everybody probably is going to say, Oh, he, based on his age, he’s probably going to say empire strikes back, but honest to God truth. I have loved empire strikes back. And the reason for it is because of the snow planet. I don’t know why it was, it was, that was the thing that struck me as a kid growing up and then return of the Jedi. I also really liked just because of my age, but empire strikes back.
Lee:
Teenage awakening. Yeah. Let’s face it. But empire strikes back was seriously my favorite. And, and that was the reason. And I also love the point where when Han Solo, uh, uh, cut up the tauntaun, you know, and put, put in there, uh, spoiler alert, if nobody knows that. Um, but I think, I think the statute of limitations on spoilers has well and truly passed based on the fact that that movie came out in 1981, I think.
Brad:
I just, I thought it was, I thought it was so awesome. And in fact, it was, uh, that was that part, um, that probably the movie was so iconic to me. And I always remember that. Um, and it’s funny. I saw a, uh, um, what was it? A to something, I think it was from hot topic or something, but it was like a hoodie that looked like a tauntaun. And when you open the hoodie of the inside, it looked like the innards of the, of the animal. I was laughing because I was like, why do I want this so bad? But, uh, that’s, that’s why. Cause that was my favorite. That’s my favorite part. I thought it was cool. You know, I can just see there’s some star, star Trek fans here, like fast forwarding.
Lee:
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Like rolling their eyes. Oh my gosh. Uh, I would say though, I’m going to mix it up. I watched rogue one the other day and I loved it. Yeah, no, I think, I absolutely loved that concept. And the fact that it kind of married so many things together to kick off a new hope it’s kind of become at the moment, my go-to star Wars movie to rewatch. So I wouldn’t say it’s my all time favorite. I think I’m with you on the empire strikes back. Uh, but it was a good movie.
Brad:
Yeah. Rogue one was good. I think the, it was an emotional one for me because actually the day we went to see it was, was, was, we were supposed to be my birthday. And actually that was the same day that, um, um, Carrie Fisher had passed away. So I got a text. I, on my phone, my phone vibrated. It was like a news alert and said, Carrie literally while I’m watching the movie. And I was like, Oh my God. And it was at the end of the movie. So I was like, Oh my gosh, like what? And it was, it just was totally emotional. Like my wife and I got out of the movie and we were like, wow, that movie was like 20 times better, but also super sad. Like, you know, so, but it was, it was a good movie. I liked it. I think my only downside is the CGI Tarkin and the CGI princess layer, although they are very well done, there are still uncanny Valley. Uh, I can’t get past it. So I’m just waiting for the, for them to, to like in 10 years time to redo it. So they look real. But anyway, but the reason why I went onto this little tangent is there is a method in my madness. I am a huge Disney fan. Okay. Everybody knows this. Uh, I live at Disney world. If I could live in Disney world, I absolutely would. Um, I love going there. I love everything Disney. We love all the Disney movies and something sparked my interest when I looked at your, um, your website and there was a Disney logo.
Lee:
Yes. Disney. And I think I let out a squeal. So please tell me more. What’s this all about?
Brad:
Absolutely. So back before, right, right when we had started Lift, I was doing some work for Disney. Um, I did some branding work for them, um, which was basically for their radio Disney in St. Louis. Um, sadly, uh, sadly we have not worked with them most recently, but, um, but that’s something that hopefully eventually we’ll get some work there. Uh, but I did some work for them for their local radio Disney, uh, which was some of the projects they were doing for like staycation and stuff that they were doing locally in the Midwest. And my, my brother actually worked for the company and that was really awesome because he worked, um, he had like the silver pass and all this, and he was telling me about all this and such a great company to do some work for one of the craziest things though. When I got some of the, I guess, the assets to start to build and follow their guidelines, they had this book they sent me. It was a physical book that they FedExed me and I had to review that and make sure that all the branding guidelines were followed. And I, being Disney, being Disney, it was the most intricate thing I’ve ever seen in my life. And they are very serious about their brand. And that’s why I love that Disney because it was just fun to work with them on that. But yeah, I did some stuff for them, uh, which was awesome. So it’s something that we, uh, obviously continue to reach out to try to get more work. But yeah, absolutely.
Lee:
I love the fact that you said you got a humongous book and it was fun. Like, Oh, I would have, I would have wept at that point.
Brad:
Oh man, it was, it was, it was awesome though. I think it was cool because they sent me this, I obviously had to send it back, but it’s like this, it was like a branding book that essentially went through all of their brands and how you could not have a certain logo or whatever looks similar to another. And they were just, they’re very strict at that. And that makes sense because look how big they are, you know? And so that was a lot of fun, but that was, that was my first, first go into experiencing such a huge branding guidelines. And that’s some scary stuff. And I’m, and, and talking of huge brands as well, again, I kind of want to hit you with AMC. I’m a massive fan of the walking dead. So what sort of work have you been doing with AMC?
Brad:
Yeah. So AMC has been a longstanding client for a long time. They, we, we got, we started working with them in 2010. So literally the first year that we were going full time with the agency, we brought them in, they had reached out to us to help them or to bid on the redesign of AMC.com. Obviously our team is pretty small. It was just Chris and I, and we were working with contractors. And that was one of the reasons why we did not get the project. They went with a company called Crowd Favorite, as everybody knows back in 2010. And so we were, we were disappointed by that, but they did tell us, Hey, listen, we feel like you could help us with maybe some smaller projects. And so we said, okay, great. Well, they got us this one and it was about a four week timeline. Well, Chris and I were like, man, we just need to knock this out, get it done and build a relationship with them. And we will absolutely be able to do more work with them. I guarantee it. And sure enough, we knocked the project out in a, in, in two weeks before we even got our deposit. We had the project done and deployed. And they were like, Oh, interesting. Could you do something else for us? And so they kept giving us these things. Well, eventually word got around the work that we were doing and they love the work that we were doing. They started giving us bigger projects. So we ended up doing the international sites for Sundance and IFC. Yeah. And then we ended up doing the redesign for IFC.com as well as Sundance channel.
Lee:
So what you mean you did Sundance.tv? Yes, we did. That’s before this was, this was a, yeah, but not the, not the most recent. Yeah. This was a couple of, this was years ago, but we did IFC and Sundance and those turned into some even bigger deals where we ended up doing the story sync application for AMC networks. Originally we TV came to us and said, Hey, we have this idea. We’d like to get you guys to quote on it and give us some ideas and see how you could put it into play. And basically they were wanting to create a second screen experience for their shows like bridezilla’s and things like that. And so we said, absolutely. So we bid on it. We built the framework. We constructed this awesome experience and they loved it. Well, we ended up pitching it to AMC TV and they wanted it for walking dead. And so we built, we rebuilt the application for them and they loved it. It’s, it was nominated for an Emmy. It’s won multiple awards for the walking dead as well as breaking bad. And that was an awesome experience. And so when we started doing those projects, they ended up giving us some more unique projects. And then we ended up getting another project from, uh, for the, the AMC group for Mad Men and Mad Men, this was a, yeah, that was awesome. That was a, uh, that was a project that was called the Mad Men fan cut, which was a project that people could submit their, uh, video to be in the first episode of, of Mad Men. So it was kind of doing like this, uh, take where everybody could submit a clip and you could be in the first episode of Mad Men. It was kind of like a promotional kind of thing. And so it was like a contest in a way. And so we built that whole framework and that’s all built on WordPress. Everything was built on WordPress. And so that was the fun thing. What was even, was even awesome, uh, to find out was that Matt Mellenweg had actually posted or brought up the StorySync application at WordPress. I believe it was the first, uh, we’re, we’re, uh, WordCamp US in San Francisco. And that was so cool. Like to see that up there, that was the stuff we did, you know? So yeah, yeah, yeah. We did a lot of cool projects.
Lee:
I am so freaking jealous. Yeah. That’s amazing. I love what you said a second ago that all powered by WordPress, you know, and people, uh, I literally had this conversation. I think it was, yeah, it was today with me and Karthik. So Karthik’s one of the guys that works with us. He’s worked in our company for four years. Shout out to Karthik. You’re a legend. But one of the things we were talking about today was that WordPress is not a blogging platform. It is a framework to be able to do so much more. Um, you know, it’s, it doesn’t even necessarily have to run a website. It could actually run an app, which I think is another good segue. I believe you guys are working with apps, are you? Or web apps in some way?
Brad:
Yes. Yes, we have. Actually we did, um, we did this for Frito-Lay. In fact, we, um, built an application for them that was built on WordPress that was not published to publicly. It was, it was obviously behind a authorization, you know, sort of gateway or whatever. And so it was all built on WordPress in the backend of WordPress. We made it a, a proofing application essentially. Yeah. So Frito-Lay, Frito-Lay needed something that they could manage the art that they were producing for certain products. And they wanted to build something, nothing like a base camp or anything like they wanted something proprietary that was theirs that they could follow their workflow. And so we ended up building this application and it was, it was pretty cool. Sadly, I think that they have, they have actually been doing something else with their, their application now, but that was something that we, uh, uh, we were really proud of because it was really unique. It was like a unique experience, you know, and it was all built on the framework of WordPress. That is so cool.
Lee:
Yeah. It was pretty awesome. That was pretty awesome. All right. So, I mean, and, and guys, if you’re listening, the reason why I’m asking all of this is, is I just want to find out what more an agency can do with WordPress. So this isn’t like an advertorial for lift UX because I pretty much guarantee everyone listening isn’t really going to be a potential client of you guys, but we are all peers. We’re all fellow agency owners. And these are fantastic projects you’re working on with WordPress. And I wanted to ask, cause it’s inspiration for everyone else. You know, we’re not just here to build websites with WordPress. There is so much more that you can do. And I love that you guys have done that. What point did you kind of come to that realization? I mean, you started lift UX. Did you always have the idea that you were going to be kind of pivoting and doing these more complicated applications and these more complex builds? Or were you, did you first like set off to be, Hey, where’s your going to build websites and
Brad:
You know, that was something that we had, we had struggled on, struggled with early on because Chris was working on up themes at the time and up themes was sort of this, I guess you could say a theme shop or a theme marketplace that was built in managed by our company. And so one of the things that we had struggled with was splitting the time between building these themes, right. And producing them and marketing them and trying to kind of get, you know, obviously dollars from, from all of that, but also getting clients like AMC, Allergan, Frito-Lay, you know, these types of companies that we got to work with, you know, cause there’s a lot that’s not in our portfolio that we worked with, you know, years ago, but it was, it was a struggle. And so I always felt the services business, I mean, there’s lots of money to be made and that was our bread and butter. I mean, I was landing projects after project after project and, you know, our team was distracted either by up themes or other products that we were building. And so we, we had a hard time splitting our time between those. But early on, I know that my vision for the company was to be a service company that focused on really awesome UX work that built solid relationships. Because when you build a relationship with someone and they like working with you and they enjoy talking to you and they enjoy working with you, typically they’re, why would they want to go somewhere else? Right? So if we could build a relationship with these companies and they really enjoyed the experience, then why would they go anywhere else? And so that was always my vision. I felt like that is where we had hit the nail on the head with trying to build relationships and building clients. But we also struggled with trying to build products, which also helped with, you know, the day to day, right? Because it’s a product that’s just sitting there and it’s making us money. It’s kind of nice. You don’t have to do anything with the client. You just have to keep the product up, right? And market it and whatnot. So we had a struggle there, but I think we found our kind of found our rhythm about a couple of years in. We knew that the services business was going to be a focus. So we ended up selling up themes. We knew that that wasn’t going to be our main focus. And so we had to make an adjustment. And so that was something that Chris and I agreed to. So we got rid of that. And so it’s been a focus on user experience and keeping our customers happy.
Lee:
So that’s upthemes.com. That’s the one that parallel, is it, Pat? I can never say it. Yes, Andy Wilkerson. Yeah. Them guys. Parallel us.
Brad:
You nailed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Andy Wilkerson, he, he connected with Chris, I think at Prestonomics a couple of years ago. Yeah. And was saying, hey, we’re looking to, to offload this. And they, you know, they discussed it and we all chatted. And what was great is we, we were sad because we were like, man, we don’t want to see up themes go. Cause it’s kind of like our baby, right? Like we, we put some time into it and, but we knew Andy was the right person for it. And so we were really happy to see him take it over. And I think he’s doing a great job with it, which is awesome. Cause we just couldn’t give it the focus it needed. So that’s what we did. So that’s pretty cool.
Lee:
So you’ve got this business of building websites, you’ve got, sorry, building a theme. So you’ve got the theme business. You’ve also got on the side, you’re, you’re winning projects, et cetera. And then you’re, you’re, you’re realizing over time, you know what, we really nail it in the services sector. So we do need to offload this distraction, even though it’s our baby, we need to offload this distraction so we can be even better at what we do. And also we’re not going to focus on, you know, Hey, I’ve got a website and I’m a jewelry company who needs a website. You know, you’re, you’re, you’re even not going to be talking to those guys. You’re going to be focused on the services sector. Now for you guys, can you just describe, because services means a whole load of different things in a whole load of different countries. So what does the services sector mean for you guys, or, or at least what is your niche, your ideal audience?
Brad:
So I would say our ideal audience, um, or client, um, that we would aim for is people that are looking to either build an app or design a new app or to redesign their website or application and working with a company that understands user experience and understands the importance of of UX and design, because we know that at the end of that project, after we finished strategy and design, we know that there’s development work and we have a group of people that we know and work with. And if we build that relationship at the beginning for design and focus on that strategy, we can definitely almost potentially win that development project as well. And so that’s been our focus as we focus on the design and strategy side and build that relationship with the client and almost try to become the agency of record in a way. Uh, and if we can do that, then we know that we can get into those development projects or find the right person that can help us and let us be the point of contact for that project. So it’s definitely been something that we’ve, we’ve aimed to do an aim for is for clients that are needing design services and user experience strategies and focus on the strategy and discovery side, and then move into that development side because we can do it. And we know people that can help us with that. So, uh, and forgive me if I’m repeating myself back, but I think therefore your strengths are going in on, on the UX experience, the design and the consultative. So you’re creating the relationship with these particular clients during those meetings, you’re seeing other particular problems, uh, raised and you’re able to then say, Hey, look, this could be a potential solution for you guys. And then you would then either marry them up with another company that can help them with that solution, or you could actually become the answer, uh, you know, to that problem. You could actually create the solution for them. So it’s a great opportunity. You’re starting in on a place of your strength and you’re able to then build on that with your other strengths as well. So rather than hitting them with, Hey, we do everything you’re actually going in, in a very, very particular area. Would that be a right understanding?
Brad:
That is correct. That is correct. We are focusing on one particular area, which is we do UX. Well, we do strategy. Well, that’s kind of our thing. Yeah. But we also do these others really, really well. And we try to focus on the first part because nine times out of 10, most clients, if they come to you for the design side, if you’re not well equipped, so for example, we have a client that we were working with that was doing an iOS development project. Our company is not focused on that. That is not at all our focus. Do we have developers and people that we could work with to help us with that? Absolutely. But they knew the strength that we had was the strategy, the design part, all of that. They essentially went a different direction there. And that was okay. Cause we knew that, like, I expected that. I didn’t see that win rate there for that project. I didn’t see that happening, but I did, you know, make sure it was clear to them, Hey, we’re on good, we’re on good terms here. You know, just because we’re not working together on this project, doesn’t mean we can’t help you with the marketing site in the future, or it doesn’t mean we can’t help you with maybe the web development project, right? Something that maybe the app talks to for like a more of a web dashboard. They know that that’s something that they’d probably reach out to us for. And so we kept that relationship in place and that was important for us. So we focus on the strategy and the UX and the development is something that’s more supplemental. But we have projects that are heavy dev too. So we can get those projects as well.
Lee:
So my brain is just ticking as you’re talking. And I’m thinking, you know, sometimes I’m very tempted to go all guns blazing to one of my target clients. I’m like, I do all of this. Look at all these amazing things. I am your one-stop shop, your entire solution. And that can just overwhelm people. And where I found the most success over the last, especially the last two years, because I’ve learned so much interviewing people on this podcast. It’s been amazing. It’s like therapy. You know, it’s like, you know, his has just been going in on that one thing, you know, so my, the drum I am always beating is I’m a WordPress consultant for design agencies. And that’s, you know, and I don’t even talk about the fact that I built themes or that I can deliver as well and do all of that sort of stuff. I just go into, you know, design agencies that are particularly print agencies that want to get into digital and just go in as, this is all I do. I’m not trying to sell you anything else right now. Let’s build a relationship. Let’s have a discussion. And maybe I can recommend some agencies to you if you’re not a fit for us, but we can still help you, you know, in the strategy side. And it has really worked. So people, you know, if you’re listening and you’re thinking, oh my gosh, maybe I could do that too. Maybe have a, have a go. It sounds like something. What’s your absolute best thing that you absolutely love doing? Can you go in with that? And then the rest may or may not follow, but you start a better chance, don’t you? When you’ve got that relationship on that one thing you’re amazing at to get other stuff.
Brad:
Yeah, I think, no, I agree. I think it also stems from the fact that if you focus on an area that you really, really, really are strong in, people will respect your opinion. If you were to say, you know, something else or do something different or recommend. And I think what you say is, you know, doing the whole WordPress consulting, that could mean a lot of things, right? And so by targeting that particular piece, you could sort of funnel things based on the recommendation, because you were kind of building that strategy. You’re almost in a way you’re thinking of it from the way we think of it, from a design and strategy standpoint, you’re thinking of it more of a debt, a development strategy standpoint, right? So like for WordPress. So that’s where you’re focusing. I think that’s great. I think that’s really helpful for companies. And that was something that we, we, we had kind of tested the mark, the waters on a little bit to say, Hey, let’s, we’re a one-stop shop, but we do focus on WordPress, but we try to market to customers and whatnot that we are a user experience design company and we do really good strategy work. So I think it’s a good thing. That’s awesome. Now, a while back you guys acquired church themes. Do you still run that?
Brad:
Yes. Yes. So, so we do. It’s, it’s kind of one of those things where we’re transitioning it to faith made, which is another product that we had created, which was a self-hosted sort of a church builder website and it’s faithmade.com and church themes is essentially being folded into that. So we, the reason for that purchase was to acquire those customers and to try to bring them over into the faith made platform, which is more of a hosting type of solution. And we built like this onboarding experience and we’ve built in with a page builder, which is awesome. And essentially giving people the tools necessary to quickly put up a church website or a nonprofit essentially. And so that’s awesome because we offer like basically a site setup fees and very similar to some other church builders out there, nonprofit builders. And so that was something that we’ve, we’ve built, we’re starting to build some customers there. And it’s kind of interesting. It’s, and you know, what’s really great too about that is Chris and I are both Christians. And so it’s interesting because when we started Lift, you know, that was kind of exciting to, to have a group of people that are coming together and there are Christian people, you know, and Christian men building a business. But what’s even, what’s even better is that every person that we’ve had on our team has all every, I think I’m pretty sure almost every person that’s been on our team has been a Christian and that was not intentional. That would just happen to be the case, which is awesome. And so I think we felt like this, this urge to build something that could help and benefit churches and or nonprofits. And so that’s where Faithmate comes in. And so we, we decided to do something like that, which kind of, kind of speaks to, you know, our hearts and kind of what we’re doing and offering something that’s kind of like a, a nice solution, but also a business for us to run.
Lee:
That’s beautiful. People will know as well. I’m an avid church guy, lead worship at our local church and that, and we, we, we came up with this idea years ago, me and my business partner to try and create something for churches. But I got to admit, we, we failed miserably. Number one, the technology wasn’t out there very well. So there wasn’t very good technology out there. I mean, WordPress was great, but we didn’t have the sorts of page builders you have now. WordPress multi-site was still a plugin before it was kind of all wrapped up into WordPress. So this is like very early days when everything was gradients. If you remember the old gradient, beveled buttons, et cetera. So we had to go and it didn’t really work well for us at all. I like that you, you guys actually acquired an existing one to get started with and then move on. There’s quite a few listeners that actually run or have ran in kind of online web services because there’s this whole area of there’s Wix, isn’t there? And people can build a website with the Wix and Squarespace. And now we’ve kind of got a situation with WordPress where we can actually run our own WordPress service and use great page builders. I don’t know if you guys have got your own or whether you’re using Beaver Builder or something like that.
Brad:
Yeah. Beaver Builder is the one we use.
Lee:
Hallelujah. Yes, we do. We love Beaver Builder. The guys at Beaver Builder are great. I actually got to meet them at Prestonomics this past, um, in April. And man, there’s, they’re awesome and they’re awesome and they’re doing a really cool product and Beaver Themur, I guess the new one that they just kind of released. I haven’t had a chance to play with yet, but I want to check that out. I think that looks like it has some potential, but, but yeah, Faith Made was built with Beaver Builder. That’s what we sort of put behind it. And, uh, we love kind of what it’s, where it’s kind of gone. And the whole idea with church themes again was to get the customers. Um, and, uh, we’re, we offered, you know, we offered them a, um, a transition to Faith Made, which was great. And yeah, I mean, we’re pretty, we’re pretty happy with it. I think it’s a, it’s an interesting product. And I think, yes, I think Beaver, uh, things like Beaver Builder being out there, it makes it a lot easier to make something of that size and that, that I guess, value to customers, which is awesome.
Lee:
So we run another business called Event Engine, which we do a very similar model for event companies and we build event websites for those guys as well and have set up feeds and all that sort of stuff. And again, that works really well. And that’s something we’ve been doing for a few years now and Beaver Builder just kind of took it to a whole new level. Um, so, so if you are listening, you’re in a particular niche. Uh, I think we’ve talked about this in the past before on the podcast, but I think it’s, it seems like such a good win. You know, if you, if you want to create some sort of ongoing revenue where you can create something that will kind of run itself, I know you’ve got support tickets, et cetera, but there is just something really attractive for me. And I think a lot of people listening about the idea of running some sort of niche Wix-esque style, obviously a billion times better, uh, Wix-esque style, you know, web platform builder for each particular niche. So, uh, I was just interested to, I remember reading your about page before this call and I was thinking, I must ask him, how is that going? Um, you know, I’m intrigued.
Brad:
Yeah, no, it’s a cool. It’s definitely cool. I mean, I love Beaver Builder itself. I’m, I’m helping my couple of friends with some websites and we’re using, you know, we’re going to be using Beaver Builder on that. And I showed it to him and the initial reaction was, wow, that is so much easier than Wix or Squarespace. There you go. I was like, that is the idea. So, um, so yeah, I mean, that’s just a good testimonial to, uh, uh, the Beaver Builder guys.
Lee:
Totally. I mean, there’s Elementor as well that’s, uh, that’s coming up the ranks. It’s an amazing product. Um, I think that’s definitely more focused to designers, uh, rather than Beaver Builder, which I think kind of helps more towards devs where we’re creating platforms as well. It’s got great multi-site, um, compatibility, which is perfect. Uh, I mean, if you guys are using multi-site to do your sites or whether you’re doing, whether you’re firing up separate installs for each one, I’m not sure, but for, for us, uh, what we’re using is a multi-site model, uh, for a lot of the clients where they’re running maybe a group of five event sites in a row. Uh, so the multi-site model with Beaver Builder just works so well for them. Uh, and they can share templates across the sites so they can manage all of their templates that they can drag into a page via one site, and then they can then reuse them across any site they want to very quickly. So if they’ve like designed a gorgeous agenda, they can just drag and drop that in with Beaver Builder. And it’s kind of a central point. I love the theming. Like that is so cool. Like I was, helping a friend who is doing photography and I created my own custom navigation and basically to show her portfolio. And I basically just created a global, uh, just a global module. And it, it is, you know, you update it. If you add a category, there it is, you know, and it looks better, you know, by doing it that way. Cause I can customize how it had the header looks or what the graphic of it. And so I just think it’s amazing what you can do with Beaver Builder. It’s just awesome. And those, those types of tools that you have out there. So it’s awesome.
Lee:
So this last 20 minutes has been sponsored by Beaver Builder. No, it’s not, but there will be a link in the description. If you want to know what all the fuss is about, and you want to go meet Beaver, then there’s a link in the description. Go check it out. It is a phenomenal product. Yeah. Thanks for telling us about that though. I was kind of, it felt like a little bit of a random question, but it is interesting. It’s very, very apt because you know, you are an agency, but you are also considering other sources of income as well. And you’re building up some sort of passive income with this, which is really cool.
Brad:
Yeah. One that has less support. And I think with themes like up themes, it just required a lot of support because it, you know, you’re not, you’re not, you know, with faith made, you’re not installing a theme. Uh, you’re, it’s all managed through us. So we provide the themes. We provide a tool that gives you something that will, how your website’s going to look and gives you the ability to manage that. You’re not installing the theme on a different platform or host. None of that is, is happening. So therefore the support is really low, which is exactly why we, we wanted to do something like that.
Lee:
That’s so cool. So mate, we’re, we’re drawing to a close now on the podcast, I’m afraid, because we only have so much time.
Brad:
Yeah.
Lee:
One question I’d love to ask you. So over the last kind of a hundred years of, of you running this agency now, I’m kidding. You’re probably only 29, are you? What, what, 29, 30?
Brad:
32.
Lee:
32. Well, I’m older than you, mate. How does that, how does that make you feel?
Brad:
Makes me feel better, I guess.
Lee:
That’s funny. But if you look back at kind of, uh, with your pipe and kind of looking on into the distance, as you think about what was the biggest lesson you feel like you’ve learned over the last few years that you would want to share with people who, you know, to avoid them having to learn the lesson the hard way, what, what do you think’s been a good life lesson for you?
Brad:
I would say for me is relationships are everything. There are going to be situations where you’re going to have a, you’re going to make a mistake. You’re going to run into some sort of issue with a client. It happens. It’s, it’s never, it’s never perfect the entire time. Uh, I wish it was, but it never is. And so I would say the biggest thing is, is always take care of your customers. And it’s not about the, the customer’s always right. I think it’s more so if you keep a solid and tight communication with your, with your team and your customer, typically problems are not going to happen as much. But I would say that what I’ve learned is over the years is, is maintaining relationships because I’ve had people that left companies that have reached out and they went to a bigger company. And that is great for us, you know, to have those type of opportunities that present themselves because they really enjoyed working with you. And there’s going to be people that have different personalities. Not everybody’s the same. Some people aren’t people, you know, people, people person, I guess. And so I would say the biggest thing is, is learning to, to approach people and build relationships and, and keep people happy is going to result in more revenue over, over a longer period of time, rather than the, the project that they have for you immediately. And we’ve experienced that where we had a customer come to us and had a smaller project. And we were like, you know what, let’s get in with them. Let’s build a, let’s build a relationship, treat them right. And, and typically they’ll, they’ll come back, you know, or if they don’t go with us and they have a bad experience, they reach out and they say, you know what, he was very honest with me. He was open. He, you know, he did not make me feel less of a person. And I think relationships are huge because they always relates to, to more revenue down the, down the road. And that’s something I’ve learned over the years. It’s important to keep relationships.
Lee:
Yeah. Don’t, don’t be a grumpy meanie. That’s, you know what, that’s, that’s, that’s, I think that’s what it is. Don’t be a grumpy meanie. That’s exactly, that’s, that’s the term to use. I like it. I love it. I just thinking as well. I mean, I can even think of times when I’ve had suppliers, like I’ve picked a more expensive supplier sometimes, even at pain to me, because they’re being so freaking brilliant and they’ve totally got me and they’re really fun to chat with. Like they, when I say got me, like they understand what it is I’m trying to do. And, and, you know, I think, you know what, I’m going to invest. I’m going to feel the pain because these guys are going to do what I, I’ve got every confidence in these guys and it’s always worked out. You know, kind of going with that relational feel. So even on the customer side, I think sometimes customers do end up if they really are attracted to you, because it is about attraction, isn’t it as well? Not attracted physically. I’m talking about the attraction of the relationship, that relationship, the connection there creates attraction and it draws people in and it creates an amazing team vibe. And just checking out your about page again as well. I’m loving all the pictures of everyone kind of like chilling out, going on parties, shooting each other. I mean, that’s pretty violent to be honest, but
Brad:
Oh man, that’s actually really fun because when we got together, that’s actually at my house, they, everybody came down and, uh, we had these Nerf guns I bought for the kids and they were, they were shooting them. And what was even funny is there’s some video rolling around where I think they’re shooting a cup off of my head directly at my face. Oh no. So, um, but, uh, but yeah, no, we have a good time. And I think that’s the good, that’s the good part about our, our company is we’ve always wanted to build something that, um, people just felt like it was a fun experience, you know, to work with. And that’s how we like to put into our work as well. It’s important. You know, I kind of want to work with you guys. You look like you have a great time. I know, man. I may have to talk off the record. Yeah. All right. You know, my, you know, my number, all right, mate, you’re a legend. What are the best ways of people connecting with you if they want to kind of follow what you’re doing?
Brad:
Yeah. It’s a, I’m Brad Miller, the letter I and the letter M Brad Miller. Um, and that’s the best way to get in touch with me. So that’s Twitter. I am Brad Miller.
Lee:
We will get that in the show notes as well. Follow young Brad. Because I can say that because I’m older than him.
Brad:
Yeah. I love it. And actually, yeah, I like the young Brad Miller. I like that. Follow young Brad, our friend, but also guys, if you want to know what lift UX are about, that’s liftUX.com. If you want to follow them on Twitter, it is Twitter, obviously lift UX. And you can see what’s going on. If you want to salivate over their website and their branding, they’re very consistent. It’s everywhere. That gorgeous gradient going on, on Twitter. I’m looking at it right now as well. That’s very Instagram, isn’t it? You know, when Instagram kind of changed and said, Hey, we’re going to go for this gradient and then Apple did it. And now it’s just cool.
Brad:
I know it’s like that purplish orange or whatever. It’s a, it’s a new, it’s a new thing, you know, I guess, but that’s the fad. I feel like I missed the boat on that. Because I’ve come with like solid pinks and solid, uh, kind of turquoises and that, but I kind of wish maybe I’d done a few gradients cause I think, well, it’s, it’s not too late, but
Lee:
I know. No, I think you can do it. I can evolve the brand. It’s called brand evolution. It’s also called an upsell if you’re a design agent, right?
Brad:
Exactly. The brand evolution package, you can buy it for a thousand dollars. $10,000. $10,000. Yeah. Value pricing. Yes, indeed.
Lee:
Mate, you’re a legend. I’m so, so glad I’ve met you and, uh, I know we’re going to keep in touch and thank you so much for your time and, uh, have an amazing day.
Brad:
Thank you. You too, sir. And appreciate you having me on.
Lee:
All right. God bless you.
Brad:
All right. All right. We’ll see ya.
Lee:
And that wraps up episode number 76. Brad is a legend. I really, really enjoyed that interview and we had a great chat after as well, which was awesome. Now in next week’s show, we have Chris Ducker who is going to be talking about personal branding, but he also drops some other knowledge bombs such as P2P. But yeah, wondering what that is. I’m not going to spoil it. If you tune in next Friday, you will get to enjoy our episode. All right, guys have a wonderful week. Don’t forget. We have the Facebook group over on WP innovator.com/group. Enjoy.
