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Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host, Lee. And on today’s show, we are talking with Nicole, who shares her personal branding journey. This is a brilliant episode. She’s really She’s funny, she’s great, and I really enjoyed interviewing her. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the journey.
Lee:
Welcome to a conversation with me. Yep, my name, Mr. Lee Jackson. But today we have Mrs Nicole Osborne. How are you?
Nicole:
Thank you, Lee. I’m very well. I’m so happy you introduced me as Frau Osborne. Thank you.
Lee:
We were just joking, folks, about her application to be on the show, and it must have been Google that filled in this very long formal title. And I wasn’t 100% sure if that’s how I had to refer to her for the rest of the show.
Nicole:
But we’re cool. It certainly was Google. I know I’m German, but I am not that formal.
Lee:
Well, thank you very much for being on the show. You are from, I’m telling you who you are now, you already know this, but this is more for the benefit of the listeners. Nicole is from a lollipop social, and I will let you tell us what that does. But first of all, we met at the Youpreneur Summit this year in 2018, and that was a fantastic summit full of awesome information. But I think we saw each other and we introduced each other and we had a fantastic chat, got on really, really well. And it turns out we’re also in a couple of the same groups, including the guys from Jamming Digital. They’ve got the…
Nicole:
What’s the group called now? Make Your Mark Online. It’s so new that we’re still learning the name, but it is fantastic.
Lee:
Yeah, I keep having to work out what the URL is when I log in to go and do some of the courses. I’m like, what’s it called? And then I’m like, What’s it called? But yeah, so We’re also part of the same groups as well. So we thought it would be really good fun to get you on and have a chat and learn all about your company. So before we do that, could you just give us a better introduction than what I just did for you? Let us know who you are, where you’re from, maybe a favourite colour, maybe a favourite drink or something that not many people know about you. And then we’ll jump into that time machine and learn a bit more about your journey. Sure.
Nicole:
So I’m Nicole. I’m originally from Germany, but I’ve actually lived over here in the UK for over 20 years. So I consider myself a bit as an adoptive Brit.
Lee:
So you moved when you were two?
Nicole:
Yeah, absolutely. Spring chicken. Thank you, Lee. Thank you. See, Lee and I, we have met in person, so I do really appreciate that compliment. My favourite It’s got to be gin and tonic. It’s never too early to start with a gin and tonic, but obviously, I know it’s only okay for Christmas to do it before 11 o’clock. I’m waiting for Christmas Day. Yes, so I’m originally from Germany. I love to go to marketing business and social media conferences. And that’s Lee, as you said, that’s how we met. Lee and I, we both share a passion for coffee and cookies. That’s really how we got talking.
Lee:
Exactly that. Oh, yeah, we were, weren’t we? We were discussing the delights of the cookies that were on offer.
Nicole:
Absolutely. And I think you’d just been on a panel session. So Chris Ducker at the Youpreneur Summit, he brought together a panel session, which was great. And I was brave enough to come up on stage and ask a question. And I think I asked a question about you’re a solopreneur. Everyone talks about behind-the-scenes content. How do you really make that happen? If you’re behind the scenes content. And how do you really make that happen if you are behind the scene as actually maybe your spare bedroom or it’s just you? And the whole panel, including Lee, shared some fantastic tips. So that was good.
Lee:
I can’t even remember what I said, to be honest. It must have been clever. Did it sound clever?
Nicole:
Naturally. I think everyone on Chris Ducker’s stage sounds and looks clever.
Lee:
That’s all right then. I got to admit, because it was like one of those open panels as well, any question could be asked. I was panicking inside thinking, please don’t ask me first because I haven’t actually thought about what the answer is yet. And then you hear someone else say what you would have said, and then you’re thinking, oh, no. What am I going to add? How do I make this sound different?
Nicole:
Yes. I make myself I got up there because it was a question I was generally interested in. But a week later, I actually spoke at the Cambridge Social Media Day all about personal branding and how to boost your personal brand. I thought, come on, Nicole, have a work yourself. You can’t go up on this stage. How are you going to do this in a week’s time? So I think it’s both. It’s a bit nerve-wracking for people who come up to ask a question, but of course, also for the people on the panel. Totally.
Lee:
Definitely. It’s the old imposter syndrome in us all the time, isn’t it? We’re always panicking.
Nicole:
But we can do it. I think we both look confident, I think.
Lee:
I think as well, we don’t give ourselves the credit, and that’s everyone listening as well about how much we actually do know. We just assume we compare ourselves with how great other people are at communicating and how confident and wonderful they look. And we, therefore, instantly downgrade ourselves a unconsciously and not realise it. The amount of times I’ve sat down to create content for our community, and I have this little inner panic thinking, Oh, no, I’ve got to write on this subject. And then I start writing and Larissa will… In fact, it happened today, and she sticks her head over and goes, Whoa, you’ve created two pages already. And that was in five minutes. Because it does flow out of you, it is there. It’s just that some silly blockage somewhere in your brain just for a few minutes where you have this little inner panic. And then when you start writing, you’re like, Oh, no, I actually do know this. It’s just buried in there somewhere.
Nicole:
It’s really strange with the imposter syndrome. I find with writing content, it really does work when you just picture one person you’re writing it for because then it’s a bit more personal and less intimidating. I find the same before going up the stage. My latest trick is just to talk to the delegates beforehand because it They’re just human beings and they all have fears. I’ve seen people who spoke on stages for years and that’s what they do. And they still get really nervous. But yeah, that totally creeps in. I think Lee, in our podcast pre-chat, one of the things I said, you got, but we just only met and we both were a bit nervous, but you wouldn’t have known because a lot of it is on the inside as opposed to what people get to see.
Lee:
That’s absolutely right. I think we’re all pretty good at hiding what’s going on on the inside. I think as well, you commented on the video that I shared on how I was actually dealing with the event at the same time, because I do sometimes struggle when I’m out and about with other people. There’s a little bit of an introvert in me. There’s the anxiety and everything that I struggle with. So I’ll pop a link in the show notes, folks, and you can check out that video if you’ve not seen it, where I’m pretty much sharing how I’m actually coping at a live event because for a few times during the Uprunner summit, I was really struggling. Although you wouldn’t know because just like Nicole was saying, a lot of it’s on the inside and we tend not to talk about it, and especially where Dan may be and other people now are really trying to push for open communication about what’s going on on the inside. I do think it’s a really good conversation for all to have. I’ll also pop a link in there for WPN Up, which is the charity and project that Dan and the team are launching.
Lee:
Okay, well, let’s talk about your history. I’d love to jump in the time machine. I’m so glad that we’ve invented this time machine because I’d like to find out how you got into marketing and social media. And was that in Germany? Was that in the UK? Can you tell me all about it? What brought you to England as well? The whole thing. Give us your life Cracky.
Nicole:
Cracky. In a nutshell. How did I get into marketing? Well, I was born in the former Eastern Germany, and it meant actually I could see all the adverts from all the fancy products I really wanted. I really, really wanted I’ll give you some examples. We could never really buy bananas in former Eastern Germany or Haribos, or I wanted Nutella. I know it’s very fruit-related, but I also wanted like barbies and fancy trainers. And because I could just see it all the time on TV, it really created this I really craved it. So then I fast forward a bit, the wall came down, the economy in former Eastern Germany was completely not sustainable. So both my parents just lost their jobs in an instant. And they were really entrepreneurial, so they built up then their own businesses. So I went bankrupt as well, I have to say. But one of the things they did, they sold sun glasses on the market stalls. And by that time, I was a teenager. I’m like, right, I want to earn my own money. And I think in the right way, the same principles apply to today’s marketing there. As long as you find out what the budget is of your client, what makes them happy, and you make them look good, it’s a good thing.
Nicole:
So I was actually really good at selling glasses to Eastern Germans in an Eastern German market town. So that was my My first exposure to running my business in a way and getting good pocket money. Now, in terms of how I got into social media, so about four years ago, I took a voluntary redundancy because I became a mum and I wanted to have a bit more flexibility at senior level. I worked as a marketing director for the last 10 years. And it was just really difficult finding anything just with an ounce of flexibility. I’m really just talking about maybe four days. And I I thought, right, I’m not going to be more junior just because there’s no senior level positions. So I thought, you know what? Let’s start my own business. Now, I must say, when I tell this story now, it sounds all really, really, really positive, but we were talking earlier about being quite transparent. I was actually really in a low confidence space here because when you have a voluntary redundancy, it’s like a massive break up and it really feels like a really, really big rejection. So when I then set out to build up my own personal brand, it just wasn’t happening at all because actually, I really just to hide away.
Nicole:
And that’s really difficult when you’re tall in German, but I just didn’t want to stand out in any way. And if you think about it. So now I’m a marketing associate media consultant. The competition is just so ginormous that you have to stand out. But really, at that time, I wasn’t in the right place to do so.
Lee:
I think you are taller than me.
Nicole:
Just a tiny bit. Unless you’re wearing your baseball cap. I do love your phrase just then, when you’re very hard to hide away when you’re taller than German. It is. And in my corporate marketing jobs, I worked for a institute of directors, the Association of Colleges. And you have this corporate brand you’re a part of. But when you’re German, you’re always going to be a little bit different. Actually, now I know it’s actually really good to own your difference and to be different. And I built it into my own branding for my business. But yeah, it was quite an interesting journey. So yeah, I love social media because you can just reach out to people and really connect with people really quickly. And you know what’s working, what’s not working.
Lee:
So how did you train yourself, as it were, in social media? Did you do that during your job as well? Or did you just go into this not really knowing anything and learning as you go?
Nicole:
It’s really funny. So I come from a background, and I know your audience is agency owners. So I come from a background that as a marketing director, I would have always worked with agencies for everything. And at the time, using social media in the business I was working on was still very new. So we would bring a fantastic and expensive agency to teach us. We had workshops and social media policies. But I personally was completely scared of even writing a So when I took redundancy, I had a bit of money and I invested it actually in a programme. It’s called our Digital Mom’s Training programme, which is like an apprenticeship. So you have really intense training over six months. And you also place to the business to deliver a create a social media strategy and deliver it for them. Now, I remember for six months, I truly had no social life because I already took on a first client in addition to that. And I had a really young child, but I made it happen. And it was brilliant. And I knew straight away that I loved social media. And I I see social media evolves all the time.
Nicole:
So you never really learn social media. It’s more about applying your marketing principles to it and knowing where you can find out the latest stuff. But yeah, I totally got the bug. And I think even now when we meet at events, physical events like the Upruner Summit, it’s great because you can usually reach out to people beforehand on Facebook or on Twitter. And this is all because of social and social itself. I mean, it’s so young, isn’t it? Is it only like 15 years?
Lee:
It’s not old. I remember when it came out.
Nicole:
Me too.
Lee:
In fact, I remember what it was before that, and that was forums and instant… Well, what was it? Msn Messenger and stuff.
Nicole:
Yeah, I know. It’s really has revolutionised it, hasn’t it?
Lee:
Absolutely insane. So was that Digital Mums?
Nicole:
Yeah, Digital Mums. So it’s an award-winning training programme. And yeah, I mean, I learned so much throughout that programme. And really, I think the biggest thing, it gave me my motor back in terms of building my own company, building my brand. Because it is hard when you take redundancy and then to reinvent yourself. But I did. And it’s been working. My brand, I think when I met you, I said, Hi, I’m Nicole, aka Lollipop Social. And she said, Yeah, I think I’ve came across you.
Lee:
Turned out I already followed you.
Nicole:
I hadn’t followed you so bad.
Lee:
I don’t remember how I followed you, but obviously I’ve consumed some of your content in the past somehow.
Nicole:
But I had noticed you at the first year you and I met at the Upruness Summit from a distance. So I knew your face. So somehow I remembered you too.
Lee:
Well, I think as well, the whole point for me of wearing the cap as well and the hoodies and being very… The skinny jeans and always having a nice pair of shoes. Actually, people don’t even see my shoes online. But when they meet me in person, I usually have some really nice shoes on. I’m a shoes guy. Absolutely love them. But that makes me recognisable. The It’s the same for you. You’ve got a style of clothes and that, you’ve got the haircut and everything, and you’re the same in all of the pictures that you have as well. I think that’s why I recognise.
Nicole:
It’s my number one tip when I talk to people about how it can really boost their personal brand on social. Whatever you do, have a current and beautiful headshot. I mean, it doesn’t have to be beautiful, but to show you in a good light and make sure it’s the same across all the different platforms because people get really, really confused and they want to recognise their face. Do you know the other thing I do, I try to, when I make videos. I try to have a lollypop in the background and I wear bright colours. So I think, as you said, there are certain things you can do just to have that brand image, and it’s great. You can have a bit of fun with it. If your industry lends itself there, especially creative designers, totally, why would you want to be the most serious-looking person? You really don’t want to blend in the background, actually.
Lee:
And you don’t want to attract those sorts of people either, anyway. You want to attract the fun people. I actually commented, didn’t I? Before this, I’d to one of your videos earlier and I’d noticed the lollypop that was sticking inside of the… It was sticking out of the plant in the background. I was like, How consistent that is with your brand consistency and the fun.
Nicole:
I came up with a lollypop social because… So my son was really young and he’s got Afro hair and he never really liked going to the hairdresser. So whenever we took him, a lollypop would just make it so much better, or when we took him to Germany to meet the rest of a family. So I’m very much in my marketing approach. I want to make the marketing of entrepreneurs and agencies better and inject a sugar rush into it. So I thought, oh, lollypop social. That lends itself quite to my quirky personality and my my lack of colours. So, yeah, it was just a marriage made in heaven so far.
Lee:
Plus all of those sweets in that that you couldn’t get when you were seeing them on the TV.
Nicole:
Tell me about it. Tell me about it.
Lee:
I think that could actually… I can connect a few dots there as well. So you did the digital mums, you boosted your confidence, etc. So how did you go out getting your first clients or even working out what your offering was as well. Social media is a huge subject. You don’t say, Hey, I do social media. What does that even mean?
Nicole:
Yeah, I think in the beginning, when you’re starting out, you are not as discerning when it comes to building up your niche, really thinking about it very much. So I was very much attracted to tech companies, social media agencies. Actually, as I was applying for the course, I was very bold. And I went for an interview for someone who was looking for Marketing Manager at the time, actually, at a paid media social media agency. And I said, well, if you want me, I can be your marketing director because I have that experience. And I might not be the expert yet in social media, but I can promise you within six months I will be. I think I just came across. It’s so bold. They hired me. And two years later, it’s still one of my biggest clients. That’s also. It’s still working really, really well. So sometimes I think it’s just how you feel about yourself. And I think it’s the same agencies looking for clients. Of course, we all love a pretty logo. And I’m the first one to say that. But it’s all about people behind the logo and why they’re doing what they’re doing.
Nicole:
I think it’s the same when you’re job hunting, you got to know that. I wanted to just be in a smaller company where it’s fast-growing, fast decision-making process, because I’d been in the corporate world where you come up with a new idea, and by the time you went through the various committees, usually your competitor had done it. I think one of my proudest moments was to rebrand a big organisation and getting a massive budget for it. It just took so long. I just wanted to know. I I wanted to be part of a smaller team where you can just speak to the owner, you speak to the senior team. And if it works, you do more of it. If it doesn’t work, you try the next thing. And I find that really exciting. So I knew I wanted to work for smaller companies.
Lee:
I think that’s what I love about agencies. Many agencies are a lot smaller as well. So as opposed to your three, four hundred people’s in a team, etc. The biggest agencies we work with have about 50 people in, and the decisions are still relatively swift. I used to work for a massive corporates in the past. And like you said, things long. Even the design, I think people have heard of the phrase design by committee. Oh, death by committee, yeah. Death by committee as well. So you have the very first iteration of the design looks absolutely wonderful. And then by the time it’s been through the committee for a year and a half. Oh, my gosh.
Nicole:
Right. The design trends certainly have moved on in a year and a half. And it’s the same with social media.
Lee:
Absolutely. So you worked, obviously, you’ve worked with that business. That’s brilliant. So you’ve worked with them since consistently. I presume that helped define the core services that you offer currently. And also define the type of people that you’re looking for. I mean, you’re very specific on your website. You’re talking about you are based in London, the types of people, the sorts of problems. Can you just share with us your ideal client and how you came to that decision that they were your ideal client?
Nicole:
Yeah. So I did a bit of research into what problem What would I like them to have? What attitude would I like them to have. And when I say attitude, I don’t mean this coming from an arrogant place, but I like to work with proactive people who are not afraid to try out new things. Because what I find quite often is my role coming in is to clearly in the beginning set a new strategy. And very often, actually, I don’t use the word strategy because I find it really puts people off. But we set goals together and how we get there. But then it’s to really motivate people to to invest, to review, to refine and adjust. And if you then work with someone who’s like, oh, no, we haven’t tried this before. We don’t want to try this. It just wouldn’t be my client. So the other reason why I bring out a fun, because I truly believe this Life is too short. I want to enjoy what I’m doing. I want to have a bit of fun. And I just really can’t pretend to be the most dry person. So by me projecting a quite full on, hopefully, sometimes a little bit funny personality, I attract the same people.
Nicole:
And I have actually seen that through LinkedIn approaches, that the more you are yourself, if it’s on your videos and your content, the more likely you are to attract the right leads and clients. And I know that’s easy, I said, for a solopreneur, but I think even in the agency world, you got to get your team out there. Let them show themselves off because at the end of the day, they’re the ones who make your work special. So why not have some behind the scenes contact with them, videos? I really think I can add so much personality to an agency.
Lee:
Absolutely. There’s a company, I’ve mentioned them a few times now on the podcast. There’s a company called Dubzado, and they have a CRM system for the creative industry. And they very much put all of their team out there up front. You can have behind the scenes videos. They give you the full story of their experience and why they built the products and all of that stuff. And you want to align yourselves with their journey. They’re really nice people. You want to be a part of their thing, their gang, et cetera. Their product is definitely not perfect, but it certainly does what we need it to do during this season of our agency. And it’s great to be a part of their community because they put themselves out there other than being a logo. I’m interested in what changed for you because I was naughty and went on to the way back machine to see whether you’ve always put yourself out there. And your very first website was very much a logo and artwork orientated, ie, you’re not anywhere to be seen. However, you are now lollypop social. What changed?
Nicole:
Oh, cracky Lee. I should have warned you, really, shouldn’t I? You know, you say that It’s true. I was really in that bad place where I just wanted to hide away. I really just wanted to hide away. But I realised pretty quickly that this was not the way for me to grow my business and that I just had to overcome my fears. I guess what it is when you’re hiding in the corporate world, your fear of failure is there, but not as much because it’s a team failure, so to say. But if it’s just you, how are you going to come across? Will people laugh at you? And that actually brings me onto something I’m hoping to develop next year, actually, because I know there are so many women in particular, late 30s, where they’re either willingly want to adopt a new career or they’re pushed out of their senior jobs, or they’re struggling to return from motherhood. And they will really face that crisis of confidence. And it’s huge. I mean, you look at my website now, you look at the website originally, and it’s just completely different. As you said, I had this laptop, which was green and purple.
Nicole:
And there’s no picture of myself. So really, that is not really going to tell anyone why they should buy my services. And it took so much guts to actually start having photos on them, to make the photos really big, and to talk about where I came from and what I’m about. So how did I get there? I really invested in myself. So I did a lot of training. I went on to events like Youpreneur summit. I became a member of membership organisations, and I also had some fantastic business coaches because I think sometimes when we’re feeling really low, we need that external help. And no one really wants to operate out of their comfort zone, but that’s what I had to do. And what then helps is when you get positive reactions to what you do. And like you were saying earlier about creating content, and sometimes you have the imposter syndrome. Oh, my God, is this going to be any interesting? Do I have anything interesting to say? But once you start forming a voice, and step by step and you get good feedback and social is great on that, it grows your confidence.
Lee:
I love this. You are a poster child, as it were, for personal branding, for understanding who you are, what you’re about, what’s your why, as well as who it is you’re doing it for, et cetera. Now, one of my favourite lines off your original site was the following, and this is not meant to make fun. This is meant to help people understand how important wording is as well. So you originally said, We work with entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, and SMEs to help drive business growth. Wow. So essentially, you worked with everybody to do something. Yeah. And we weren’t really 100% sure. However, now, if people go ahead and check out what you’re doing, et cetera, you’re outlining people’s problems. Someone’s frustration might be, Hey, I’m the industry’s best kept secret. How on Earth can I get people to notice me? Right? Instantly, I’m now interested in talking with you because you’ve just tapped into something that I’m struggling with as as a business. I want to know how to become well known on the internet and all of that stuff. So it’s phenomenal just looking at the change. What I will do, I think in the show notes is pop a link to the original and to this.
Lee:
And again, it’s just to show that it’s a fantastic journey, isn’t it? I think a lot of us have gone on the similar journey. If you look at my old websites, I was exactly the same. I’m not anywhere on it. The company, you wouldn’t even know Lee worked there. It was all very vague because I thought I had to be all things to all people. And I didn’t to single out any one particular type of person because I thought I might miss out on business.
Nicole:
I still have a way to go, but the success I’ve had with my personal branding and with my content marketing has meant that over the last year, my website traffic has increased by something crazy, like 200 %. And referrals from social media, 150 %. So it does really, really pay off. But yes, I cringe. And I still have to work on my website. It’s like an ongoing project. But yes, I’m really pleased you noticed the difference. I I really, really am.
Lee:
No, it’s brilliant. And it was never meant to be mean or anything.
Nicole:
It was actually meant to help prove the point. No, I know. To make you feel better. So when I did my last talk on how to use social media to boost your personal brand, I talked to people about how great the Hof did in former Eastern Germany, and how he had an amazing personal brand, even though there was no social media, and how we all had to be like the Hof. I even run a little competition with a Hof mask. And if you search on Twitter, it’s hilarious. Be the Hof. People have worn the mask. But I actually showed a picture of my old website just to demonstrate the journey because people are often thinking, you don’t wake up thinking you need a personal brand. And the next thing agency owners say or one-man brands, but I’m way too busy delivering for my clients. How can I ever fit this in? So there are ways and tools you can use to go through this journey, and it does really have massive payoff. If you’re committed to it and you’re just patient with it.
Lee:
Absolutely. I think as well, having the personal brand, it elevates you anyway. So it also elevates the type of clients that you’re able to work with and actually enables you to work with those real ideal clients that you’re desperate to work with. Whereas if you are stuck always servicing the same old, same old, then it can become stale. And that’s exactly where we were just a few years ago until we really started to stick our head above the parapet, as it were, and actually start to show our faces and show our personality and have fun with it, which is awesome.
Nicole:
Becomes more enjoyable, doesn’t it? Absolutely. Because when I’m not my videos, I usually film a couple in a day. I have some fun with it. And I know I decided quite early on that I wasn’t going to do the editing because I just couldn’t get into it. So my editor now, his brief, is just to make it look more fun. So we use emojis and colours and music. So there’s lots of things you can do with it. And yeah, it makes it more enjoyable for me and hopefully for the audience.
Lee:
Yeah, absolutely. Now on the content, you obviously have massively increased the amount of content you’re doing. I love the fun you’re having on your website. I love the Wunderbar freebie factory, the content you’re putting on there, your pictures everywhere, which is really cool. And you’re also feeding in the videos from your YouTube channel. How did you… Well, I guess a couple of questions. So a lot of people are thinking, yes, I need to be on video or I need to put some content out there. How did you decide on the types of content that you’re putting out there? And also, how did you build up that confidence to actually get in front of the camera and start talking? Because you’ve gone from just a logo to, okay, I’m going to put my picture on the site. Okay, now I’m going to show up and actually talk to people.
Nicole:
Yeah. So do you know with the content, so it’s deciding what content. I started out in my comfort zone, which was blog writing, because I felt, okay, so if I’m going to do this consistently, I just need to work with a form that I will find relatively easy. So I started blog writing, and then the most popular blogs I had, I went from write. The next form I really want to get into is video, because I feel for a personal brand and for LinkedIn and for platforms I’m on, it work really, really well. But having said that, my video learning journey is still ongoing and it took over a year. I mean, honestly, when I started, I hated the sound of my voice. I thought my bum was going to look big on camera. Now, I know it’s only funny videos where this would happen, but this is all going on in my head. I generally thought I had nothing interesting to say. And just the thought of looking down a camera, it absolutely petified me. So again, I just pushed myself to be out of my comfort zone. I did a course by Madeleine Sklar, Video Like a Rockstar.
Nicole:
It really, really amazing course. She brings together women. And over 30 days, she really boost your confidence with various exercises. I carried on the learning, and I just made myself record more and more videos. And I think someone said at the Upreneur, somewhere, you and I were your first-hand videos are just completely going to suck. I know that sounds really harsh, but I actually think it’s true. And I don’t mind because what I have really learnt with my content is, yes, I want it to be good, but sometimes done is better than perfect.
Lee:
I’ve I must have said that so many times on my podcast now.
Nicole:
It’s true, isn’t it?
Lee:
It’s one of my favourite sayings.
Nicole:
And it’s true. And I mean, the good thing is as you grow your business, you can then start to cleverly outsource. I still write my own blogs, but I now have an editor for my blogs. I record my own videos, but someone edits them for me. And then I now started to get help with repurposing. So it’s obviously not something you can do right from the beginning, but there comes a point in your business journey where you know your money is better spent outsourcing and you actually just create the original content. So how do I make it all happen? For the mums amongst your listeners, they will know as you’re so organised as a mum. So I actually do not have time in my diary to make it happen. And very early on, I always say to people, Look, just treat yourself like you would treat a client’s project. Because yes, you’re going to be busy with clients’ work. But if you say your own brand, your own business marketing is like a client’s project, you will scope it out, you will put it in your diary, and you make it And it’s so important for…
Nicole:
We don’t want to stand still in our businesses. We want to grow, to have more opportunities to invest more. So, yeah.
Lee:
Absolutely. I also say quite regularly as well, I mean, obviously, treating yourself like a client is important. Because we actually have a responsibility to our clients to maintain a good and profitable business so that in two years time when they still need us and you’ve had this ongoing relationship with that client that you went and approached and several years later, you’re still working with them. That’s an example of why it’s important. You do well in business, so you can still be there to continue to support them and continue to help them grow. I think a lot of us feel bad about growing our business, etc. And actually it’s our responsibility to do so, which is really, really important. Folks, remember, you can check out the website. It’s lollypopsocial. Co. Uk. We’re not wrapping up yet, but I just wanted to. I don’t think I mentioned it at the beginning, so I thought I better mention it now. Lolypop Social. I probably need to do an intro as well, which includes your web address so people can be out your website. What’s the listening to this episode?
Nicole:
We can do that, Lee. I should write a blog about what it’s like someone reads out your really old website copy to you. It’s a fun… No, no, don’t be sorry at all. I think it’s really good though, because It was cringeworthy, but yeah, I mean…
Lee:
No, it’s absolutely fine. So practically then, so you’ve obviously you’ve continued to build up the business and you were saying that as you’ve been able to grow in that, you’ve been able to get third parties involved to help you, like with the editing and repurposing and all of that stuff. So I’d just be interested in what you can share with regards to how have you been able to build a social media business that ensures that you get good cash flow and a good pipeline going?
Nicole:
Yeah, I mean, I’m still working on it. It’s an ongoing process. I mean, the main thing, I believe, is really putting out good content. Putting out good content, which shows your potential clients what they would get if they worked with you. Then also is to have systems in place to to follow up. So I have certain handvisors, several handvisors on my website. So I have an e-book, as you said about Wunderbar checklist. So I know who’s interested in what. And then to follow up with them. Sometimes like a video reply on Twitter or just sharing their content. So it’s really nurturing that. And it’s also not being afraid of doing soft business development when you are at events. At the Upreneur summit, I like to go every year and I have maybe one or two opportunities coming out of it because I’m passionate about what I do. And then there’s someone on my table where I think they could really benefit from it. I’m then not shy to follow up. And not in a pushy way, but as a look, we’ve met and we had a chat about this And also let your existing clients do your work for you as well.
Nicole:
I benefit from referrals because people have friends in similar situations, and then they pass them on to me. Now, obviously, if I had the golden ticket worked out, the formula, I could share that now, but I think when you’re starting out, you just have to try out different methods and just put some systems in place and not be afraid to follow up. And just realising for some people it takes them a long time to notice you to then actually buying from you. So to consistently put our content, engage with people and just add value to their problems and questions and challenges.
Lee:
So add value, lead by example, show them what they could be getting. And obviously being out and about, creating relationships, networking. I always find that going to an event is very much like networking on crack, as it were. You can go to a networking BNI meeting for an entire year and get nothing from it, or you go to an event, like a conference, etc. And you have several leads because it’s a crazy but great environment, I think, for generating business as well as obviously making fresh connexions, et cetera.
Nicole:
And that’s why I think it’s so important to actually be authentic with your personal brand, because if it is an act you’re putting on, you really can’t keep it up. No, exactly. So if I was to pretend I’m dead serious, like the anti-version of me, the anti-Nicol, I think a good way of testing up whether your content is on brand is to think what would the anti-person do. So for me, the anti-person would film every video in a suit, and she would be referred to as Mrs. Osborne, and she would be Mrs. Know It All. Therefore, I’m very much about, I share my struggles and how I’ve overcome them, and I don’t pretend I know it all. So I think that’s a really, really, really good test, because if you then yourself, if you’re at a networking event, not only will people say, Oh, I recognise you from your photo, but hey, do you know what? You bid like your video. I think that’s a good thing.
Lee:
That is a good thing. You’ve literally reminded me as you were talking about the time where I donned a suit and tried to be that. And I’ve got the video somewhere. I’m totally going to send you it after this call and I’m going to put it in the show. Since I humiliated you, we might as well humiliate me. It’s absolutely hilarious. I’m like, Are you a design agency who has the following I’m so freaking corporate. It’s hilarious. And I think I’ve got my hands in my pocket or something. I’m just freaking out. And I look like a statue. It’s absolutely hilarious.
Nicole:
I can picture it, but I want to see it because I find it particularly on social media, people are so told now, the age is, Oh, I must use LinkedIn. I must use LinkedIn. But people really struggle with it because they still have this perception, LinkedIn is just for recruitment and really stuffy. And the good news is it isn’t any longer. Since Microsoft has purchased it, it got lots and lots more it is more sociable. So when I work with clients, it’s that real realisation that, yes, it’s okay to be a bit sociable. You can use the odd emoji, use informal language. You don’t have to be dear Mr. Stone, so you’re sincerely… But that’s what you just said. You felt like you had to put yourself into a suit. I think the equivalent is when you’re on social and all of a sudden you write like it’s a really formal letter. So I always say, don’t forget your tone of voice. It’s like your personality on paper. And it’s so important that you show your personality and you’re human and how you would sometimes talk to a friend. Now, I always have this golden rule, and my mum would love it, even though she wouldn’t understand it, speaking German.
Nicole:
If I would be ashamed of my mum to see it on social media, then personally, I wouldn’t put it on social media. So there’s obviously, you have to philtre things a bit. And even with your personal brand, you have to decide what things do you want to talk about and which things are you just going to keep private. But you can totally do it.
Lee:
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Now, one thing I’m interested as well with social media, I’m imagining it’s slightly different to the web world where I might be doing a project, say, a web build project, and that’s potentially it for that client. Do you work on a lot more of a retainer model as well? So you’re doing an agreed amount of work for every single month, or are your projects also one-offs?
Nicole:
It’s a real mixture. It’s a real mixture. I learned quite early on that I prefer working with clients where they know the value of social media so that I don’t have to just spend all of my time just explaining it. And I think if you know the value of social media, often people go for a strategy first and then on a retainer basis for coverage of their different channels. But what I really like to do nowadays is to train people to use their in-house teams for delivering the social media, because particularly in the agency world, I mean, you guys are filled with creative people. Now, the challenge you have, it’s very, very busy. But for social media management to be really authentic, you can outsource parts of it, but you still have to be present. I So I really like to help agencies find that balance between things they can outsource and outsource it well. But also, where do they have to be involved? When it comes, for example, to thought leadership in their sector, what articles to write, how to get them seen on social social media and just have that balance. But I find that fun to really help agencies be better with their own social media because I appreciate how busy they are and the client’s project take priority.
Nicole:
The other day, I had an interesting chat with a local estate agent and a really lovely, great personality. I think that’s why we felt attracted to each other. But then I figured out that they really didn’t want to use their photos. I’m thinking, we’re really going to struggle on social media to tell our story without using photos. So Yes. I have to just see how that project works out. But I like a challenge. I think this is the one thing I’ve learned from growing up in Eastern Germany. If we didn’t have a thing, we would find another. I’ll give you an example. I really like chocolate spread, that German thing, hazelnuts Nutella. We couldn’t buy it. So my mum made her own version of it. Or we couldn’t… We had a 20-year ultra band, which was like the Eastern German car, and then it broke down, we couldn’t get any parts for it. So my parents then went out and had Asparagus, which was very desirable because not many people had it. So we I did Asparegas for a glass for a window for our cars. We learn ways of working around. And my approach to my work is very much the same.
Nicole:
Okay, so if we want to aim for this and we don’t have that much budget, maybe we can do it in this way. So Just finding ways of still making things happen. You can never really stop that.
Lee:
I love it. I also like as well how clear you are about the type of customer that you want to work with and why that’s also important to the work that you are doing for them because you need them to be on board to be able to do the relevant things. But I also like the idea of being able to find the relevant workarounds as well, which is absolutely awesome. Fantastic. Now then, it is that time where we do have to kick you off the show, I’m afraid, because we’re absolutely running out of time. However, I would love you back on because I feel like and you could just chat for hours, which has been lovely. So please do come back on soon. I will message you about that after this. I would love to. I’ve also found the video, which I will definitely put in the show notes, but I will send you after this call so you can just howl with laughter. In fact, maybe we can watch it together after we stop recording and you can just have a laugh at my expense. But folks, it’s lollypopsocial.Co.Uk. You can also find Nicole on the socials.
Lee:
You’d hope so, wouldn’t you? Oh my gosh. And you can find her on My Lollipop Social on Facebook. That’s her page. Go ahead and like her page. She’s cool. She shares all her content on there. And also on the Twitter sphere, which is a lollypop_social. That’s right. And you can see as well that consistency of brand and the images and the cheerful faces of the videos she shares. This girl practises what she preaches. I love it.
Nicole:
Thank you, Lee. Thank you so much for having me today. Really, really, really enjoyed it. No worries. And Excited.
Lee:
Well, have a wonderful day and we’re going to stop recording, but let’s have a laugh at my expense. Take care.
Nicole:
Tschüss.
Lee:
And that wraps up today’s show. If you enjoyed the show, then be sure to leave us a review on the podcasting service of your choice. Let people know how crazy good this show is. If you also enjoyed it, why not connect with me via the Facebook group?
Lee:
You can go to agencytrailblazer.Com/group. It’s one of the places that I hang out on the internet, and it would be great to have a conversation with you. That’s agencytrailblazer.Com/group. If you don’t see you there, if I don’t see you on email, then hopefully we will see you in the next episode..
