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Verbatim text
Lee:
Before we kick off the show, can I encourage you to listen back to episode 200, where I share how to transform your agency. It’s a combination of my own story, but also five pillars of transforming your business. Really, really useful episode. We’ve had tonnes of amazing and encouraging feedback. So I just wanted to encourage you, if you’ve not listened to episode 200, please download that and go ahead and check that one Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host, Lee. On today’s show, we are talking with Gabrielle Treanor. We’re talking all about mental health, about stress, and about worry, and she gives us some amazing tools to cope. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. Now, before we start today’s episode, we are doing something different today. We’re actually using questions that have been contributed by the Agency Trailblazer members who are part of our premium community. If you want to find out any more information on that, then head on over to agencytrailblazer.com, where you, too, can support this show. You can consume some fantastic workshops, and you can also help to contribute and to steer the content of this podcast.
Lee:
Enjoy this slightly different, but very, very helpful and very educational podcast. Welcome to a conversation with me, your host, Mr. Lee Jackson. And today we have on the show Gabrielle Treanor. Gabrielle, how are you today?
Gabrielle:
I’m very well, thank you Lee. Thank you so much for having me on.
Lee:
Well, it’s an absolute pleasure. I’ve really enjoyed doing our pre-flight checklist together. And I was very impressed with the quality of your audio, considering as you’re using… You told me, was it an iPhone headset?
Gabrielle:
Yeah.
Lee:
So anyone who’s been putting off starting a podcast, there is officially no excuse. Listen to the quality of this audio right now. I hope it comes through on the actual show. Folks, if you don’t know who Gabrielle is, she is the Overthinker’s Coach. And literally, I know hundreds of you who listen to this show who overthink because you send me questions and all sorts of messages. And then I overthink, and then we all worry together. So we definitely need someone like Gabrielle today on the show. So Gabrielle, instead of me murdering what you do, could you please share with us, obviously, A, who you are, maybe something about yourself that maybe you think people don’t know. And also Tell us what you’re all about.
Gabrielle:
Absolutely. Well, my name is Gabrielle Treanor. I live in the Brecon Beacons in South Wales with my husband and little dog. And in a nutshell, I help overthinker’s to worry less and enjoy life more. So this all came about from my own experience, basically. I’ve been a warrior my entire life. I was just one of those people who just lived in their heads and wasn’t fully participating in their own life or the world because I was just going over and over and over what had already happened and trying to reimagine the past, or I was really imagining the future and what-if-ing all the possibilities that could possibly happen that I’m imagining in the future and just living in my head. And I So it got to the point where I thought, I can’t do this anymore. This is doing my head in, literally. So that’s when I discovered the world of positive psychology, which is quite a new area of psychology as the scope goes. Everything that I learned was making sense to me. And I started to put it all into practise myself. So whatever I was learning, whatever techniques and tools and strategies that were being suggested to me, I then had to go it myself.
Gabrielle:
And I was finding that it was really working. It was really helping me to stop living in in my head and to actually feel more calm and feel like I was really being able to spend more time in the present as opposed to the past and the future. And so this was all a bit of a revelation to me. And I was thinking, well, there’s got to be other people who feel the way I do. I mean, it’s not something that we talk about, which we’re talking about it more now. But years ago, this wasn’t something that was talked about nearly as much. But I was thinking, I surely can’t be the only person who feels like this. So I want to share it with other people. What is working for is bound to work for other people. So that’s how I now come to do what I do. So I’m a certified life coach, and I work one to one with people, and I create online courses that I teach, and I also write for various magazines magazines, and I’ve been featured in quite a few magazines. So I’m finding these different ways that I can share what I have learned and researched and what I’ve experienced myself.
Gabrielle:
So it’s not all the theory. It’s, okay, I’ve been there and I’ve been doing it myself. And how how that can help other people, too.
Lee:
That’s brilliant. And have you got anything that you think no one might know about you as a podcast exclusive? For example, maybe you’re an international spy or anything cool like that?
Gabrielle:
I wish. That would be exciting.
Lee:
That would be awesome. You could make it up. We’d never actually be able to prove it.
Gabrielle:
Well, actually, you know what? Somehow you’ve managed to find me out. All these years I’ve been undercover as an international spy, and you’ve gone and revealed me, Lee.
Lee:
Oh, no. I’m so sorry. You’re going to have to just focus on what you do best now. So folks, if you want to find out a little bit about Gabrielle before we carry on, then you can check out gabrielletreanor.com. That’s Gabrielle, two Ls, and then trainer is T-R-E-A-N-O-R. Com. And of course, check the show notes if you can’t be bothered to spell, which is fine because, hey, why not? Now, Gabrielle, we have had a whole tonne of questions just to set the scene. Me and you have talked about this a few times. You’ve talked about it with Colin as well, your husband, and you’re aware of Dan, maybe, who is doing the WPN Up, where we’re really trying to create an awareness of mental health, of how stressful agency life is, et cetera, and trying to support each other as well. There’s been a story recently of one of the people in the WordPress space who was struggling as well. And unfortunately, it came to the point where they wanted to end their life, which is super sad. So this is all quite a complicated and a subject that people don’t really talk about very often.
Lee:
But it’s all around mental health. How do we deal with stress? How do we cope with things? And I’ve asked our community, and everyone will remain anonymous, but I’ve asked our community to just submit some questions of things that they feel like they’re struggling with. And I wondered if I could just hit you with those questions, not physically, and see if you could just help us unpack some of those and maybe give people a few tools or a few thought processes for how to deal with some of the situations that they’re sharing with us. Would you be up for that?
Gabrielle:
Absolutely. Like you say, it’s really important for us to be talking about this more and more. I love the fact that you’re really addressing this in your group and on the podcast, because the more we talk about it, the more we can help each other. So absolutely.
Lee:
All righty. No, brilliant. Fantastic. And people who listen to the show also know that I’m someone who does struggle as well with mental health on and off. So this is definitely something that’s close to my heart. I will confess, one of these questions mine, but I’m not going to tell you which one. So everyone will be trying to guess. All right. So the first question that we have had in is, how do you cope when nothing seems to be going right or is completely beyond your control?
Gabrielle:
Great question. Definitely one that we all experience. And actually that’s something that without knowing what the other questions are, I will say right now that whatever you’re struggling with, you are not the only person. That goes for all of it. And that’s something that I think really helps us to know straight away, because when you feel like you’re the only one, when you feel like you’re completely alone in what you’re struggling with, it feels so much worse. And you’re absolutely not alone. I guarantee you there will be lots of people all over the Planet, there are seven billion of us, there’s got to be lots of them who are experiencing exactly the same issue. So when you feel like everything’s going wrong and there’s lots of things out of your control and it’s all feeling like it’s all getting away from you, the thing really to do here here is to look at what is in your control and what is not. And that might not feel very comfortable. It might not be something that you want to look at, but you’re going to continue to sit and spin, as I say, in this panic.
Gabrielle:
If you don’t actually say, okay, look, I’m going to look it in the face. And it might be that you need to do that with somebody else because it might feel a bit scary to do it on your own. So if you need to talk about that with somebody else, whatever is going to help you feel a bit more comfortable, then absolutely do that. And so when you look at what you can control and what you can’t, the things that you can’t control, there’s just no easy way to say it, but you just can’t control them. And so you have to find a way to just put them to one side, to let them go, to put a pin in them, to shell them. Because if you can’t control them, that’s it. You just can’t control them. It’s not going to be, if I wish really, really, really hard, if I really, really hope, they’ll magically I’m within my control. It’s not going to happen. No. And so being able to say, Okay, you know what? I cannot control that thing or that person or their opinion or their actions. Okay, so I can’t do that.
Gabrielle:
Let me focus all my energy. Let me put my energy and my attention and focus on what I do have some power over because it’s just going to get nowhere if I put my energy into looking at what I can’t have control of. So here’s this pile of stuff. Here’s this list of stuff that I do have some say over. Okay, let’s have a look at that. Let’s break it down. It could be a great pile of stuff, and you don’t know where to start because it’s just too much of a mountain. So let’s just take a couple of things off. Let’s see whether there’s a way that we can prioritise what seems like to be the most important. The thing is that is going to move my business forward. That is the thing that is going to help me feel like I’m making some headway. Maybe have a handful of things that are a mixture of quick, easy wins. Okay, that’s something I can do in five minutes. That’s something I can do in half an hour. That’s something that I can get done by the end of the day. And just the rest of it, there’s another maybe 47 things on your pile of 50 stuff.
Gabrielle:
Leave the other 47 for a minute. Deal with the first three, get those three done, and then, right, okay, let’s go for the next three. And so if you’re trying to tackle all 50 things at once, it’s definitely going to be overwhelming. So just try and break it down and see what you can control, what you have some say over, and focus on a a couple of those things to begin with.
Lee:
That’s great advice. So just to reiterate as well, so there are always going to be things that are beyond our control. Maybe it’s a client deciding whether or not they’re going to use you for their next project or whatever it is. I mean, you can influence that, but the end decision is something that you can’t necessarily deal with. Maybe it’s something completely outside of our control as well that we don’t have any influence over at all. And the worst may happen or the worst may not happen. But I think what you’re saying is it’s the energy that we’re putting into freaking about that and stressing out and feeling down about that, we could actually put into looking at what we can control. So I can nail this task list. I can tidy my office and feel good about it because I did that today and that was something I could control. I can feel good because I sent that invoice that I’ve been meaning to send now for the last five weeks and I’m worried about money in the bank. So actually sending that invoice was worthwhile doing the quick wins, etc. One thing I have as well, I don’t know if this is helpful or not, but I use a physical to-do list every single day And it’s one of those that’s actually printed and you’ve got the place where you can tick.
Lee:
But what I like to do is tick and also put a line through it. And I’ll put absolutely everything I have to do on there instead of using technology. And I’ll give myself the permission to put things off over into tomorrow. So if I’m feeling stressed and overwhelmed, then I might just put a line through something. And then instead of putting a tick, I’ll put an arrow as if to say, Hey, that’s gone over to tomorrow. And then I’ll just rewrite it on tomorrow’s page. And for me, it It’s gone out of my mind now. I don’t have to worry about that thing today. It’s not urgent. It’s not terribly important. It can be dealt with tomorrow. And there’s some other stuff I can do today that will really help me. So I don’t know if that’s useful, but it really, really works for me.
Gabrielle:
Yeah, that’s great. I don’t do the putting an arrow to move to the next day because I just think it, but I think I might adopt that. That’s a brilliant idea. But definitely writing things down so that you can cross them off and tick them off and have that sense of completion and satisfaction. And actually adding in, say you don’t write your list until you’re already an hour into your day and you’ve already done some things, add the things you’ve already done onto your list and tick them straight away because you’ve done them.
Lee:
Oh, yeah.
Gabrielle:
And then you feel like you’re really making headway.
Lee:
Exactly. Pat yourself on the back. Well, the next question we had in was, how do I deal with overwhelming? I mean, it’s a similar question, but the person here is saying, How do I deal with overwhelm and the feeling, I just want to shut down. So I guess this is a different thing. So some people are saying things are beyond their control, but some people here are saying, I just want I shut down. I want to stop, I can’t cope with it all. It’s just all too much. I want to go and lock myself in a room and have a sleep or something. Any advice for those sorts of feelings? Because some people, I guess, may feel like they can’t even do those things they can control necessarily.
Gabrielle:
Yeah, definitely. When you hit full on overwhelm, when you really feel overwhelmed, I completely know that feeling where you just don’t feel you can cope with anything. You can’t do any of it and you just want to get under the duvet and stay there. And that’s where continuing to push on is not going to help because, like you said, you’re just overwhelmed and you can’t do anything. So while you may have that guilty feeling, I need to keep going. There’s this work that needs doing, and these people expect these things from me, and I need to, I need to, I need to. Actually, if you’re not in any fit state of mind, you’re not going to be able to do good work and it’s going to take you forever to do the simplest thing. So the best thing to do there is to really step away from work for a moment. Think to yourself, what is it that I need right now? Do I need to have a nap? Do I need to actually get under that duvet and have a sleep? Am I exhausted? Do I need to sleep? Do I need to eat something?
Gabrielle:
You think about your basic needs. When did I last eat something and was it nourishing as opposed to I stuffed a chocolate bar down me so I’d have a boost of sugar to get through the next hour?
Lee:
You just described the webdesigner’s life, by the way. Quick boost of sugar, Red Bull, keep going.
Gabrielle:
Yeah, I would suggest maybe think about nourishing yourself in another way. Do I need to have a great big glass of water? Do I need to go get some fresh air? Go for a walk? Is that going to help me? Do I need to go give the dog or the cat a cuddle? Do I need to phone a friend? What is it that is going to help me right now? And if you struggle to even think, I don’t know, I don’t know what’s going to help me, imagine it’s a really good friend of yours who’s feeling how you are now. Imagine they’re in your position and think to yourself, All right, if they were saying to me, This is how I’m feeling, what would I say to them? What would I suggest they do? And how would I treat them? And then by actually taking it away from us and putting it to somebody else that you care about can make it easier. So you think, Well, I would tell them to blah, blah, blah. Okay, in that case, do that for yourself and see how you get on. So just transferring it to a friend, because we’re so good at taking care of other people.
Gabrielle:
We’re so good at making sure that we care about our friends and we love our friends and we look after them and we make sure that we say lovely things to them. But we can be really rubbish at taking care of ourselves. So if you think about how you would treat a friend who’s feeling overwhelmed, and then whatever you come up with there, just turn it back on yourself and do this with you.
Lee:
It’s absolutely important, isn’t it, to love yourself? It sounds cheesy and people think, Oh, I’m not big-headed, but loving yourself just means actually looking after yourself. And by loving yourself, you’re actually loving the people that love you because you are looking after yourself and being there and you’re present for the people as well. So it’s all this beautiful circle of love yourself, love others. And you’re absolutely right. I will, even as things like, if my wife or a friend of mine says, Oh, I feel really fat, I am quick to go, No, you’re beautiful. You look amazing. And then three seconds later, I’m looking in the mirror going, You look terrible. And I’m just being terrible to myself. And I’m like, I’ve got to remember that that’s not how my friends see me. That’s not how my wife sees me. And be kinder to myself as well. Something that’s something I’m still working with. I got to be honest. I used to be really big when I was younger, and I’m still big in my head, even though I lost all the weight. Still working through that one.
Gabrielle:
You’re right. We are so mean to ourselves. And what’s a really good way to be able to notice when you’re being harsh to yourself, even if you’re not being harsh to yourself in such an obvious manner, but there’s little ways that you just have little digs at yourself, is to notice your language, notice your self-talk. So if you find that you’re saying, It’s literally mean things like, Oh, God, you’re so stupid. It’s an idiotic thing to say, oh, I can’t believe you’re such an idiot. That’s relatively obvious that you’re being quite mean to yourself. But then if actually you find yourself shouldding, as I say. So if you say, so if you say, I should have done that better. I I should have done that. I should never have said that. Oh, I can’t believe I didn’t do that. When the should word comes out, that is a little red flag that you’re piling this judgement, this shame, this obligation on yourself. You’re basically beating yourself up for things that you did or did not do. And if you can just, even if you just swap the word should for could. So rather than saying, Oh, I should have done this, I could have done this, or I should go do that.
Gabrielle:
I should go to that meeting. I should go to that event, if I should send that email. Okay, well, I could send that email. I could go to that event. And it changes the feel of it entirely. So instead of you beating yourself up and suddenly keeping all this shame and obligation on yourself, you’re giving yourself the choice because you are in charge. When you run your own agency, you are in charge. And we do manage to forget that because we have obligations to other people. But the fact is that it is your choice. Yes, you need to make money. Yes, you want to be successful. Yes, you want to create fantastic websites and designs. But it is your choice. And you could send that email. You could get in touch with that person. You could go to that event. And sometimes just saying it as could rather than should, actually, wait, no, I do. I want to go to that event because I’m doing it out of my choice as opposed to out of a feeling of obligation and shame if I don’t go. And then what you’re saying before about loving yourself, this whole idea of self-care, this phrase self-care that is really becoming a more well-known phrase, has somehow got a bit distracted into the world of, oh, well, self-care means lighting a candle and having a bath, which…
Gabrielle:
Those are parts of it. Which is nice. But it’s only one teeny tiny part. Actually, self-care is just taking care of yourself. So it is getting yourself a glass of water when you need it. It’s not thinking, I’ll just wait until I finish doing this piece of work before I go to the toilet, when actually you’re desperate to go because how many people continue to sit at their desk when actually they just need to do something as basic as going to the toilet. And it’s also going to get some fresh air. It’s also taking care of yourself in terms of the way you speak to yourself. And if you take care of yourself, this is the thing where actually it really makes you feel It makes sense to do it, because if you take care of yourself, you are in a much better position to be able to be the best version of your sofa everybody else. So you’re going to be able to take care of your family and your friends and your clients and your customers if you’re taking care of yourself. If you’ve run yourself ragged and worked yourself in the ground and you’ve been total overwhelmed, you cannot do your best work and you can’t be your most attentive partner and doting parent and funny friend and all the things and all the people that you are deep inside, that it gets covered up by all this overth thinking and by all the overwhelm and by stressing yourself out.
Gabrielle:
You can’t be the person you want to be around all the people you care about. If actually you’re not taking care of yourself. So the best thing you can do to take care of other people is to take care of yourself. It isn’t something to feel guilty about or to feel as selfish at all, actually.
Lee:
This is really interesting because another question that came in said, I struggle How do I manage with severe procrastination off the back of that? And I’m wondering whether this sounds like it could be someone who is fighting the need to self-care or feeling bad or guilty about that. I’m not sure, but Because you’ve really got my mind going. I love the phrase as well, changing should to could, because the amount of times I tell myself off using the word should, I’m going to use that from now on. The phrase you said, I should go to that event. I say that a lot, especially when it comes to early morning networking at 6:00 AM in the morning. So if I say could, then maybe I might want to go. But with the overwhelmed, this question, I struggle with overwhelm. How do I manage severe procrastination off the back of that? I’m not saying that you’re suggesting that we should procrastinate, but at the same time, I’m wondering if that’s because the person is struggling with the idea of looking after themselves in some way. What do you think about that?
Gabrielle:
I think procrastination an awful lot of the time has to do with a fear in that if you’re putting off doing something, there could be some fear around it. So it’s not that necessarily you don’t want to do it and that’s it. That’s the end of the story. There’s probably more in there. So I think you can get curious. Before you start checking shoulds at yourself and judging, Well, I should do this thing. I can’t believe I’m not doing it, then actually thinking, okay, why don’t I want to do this thing? What’s going on here? Why am I procrastinating? Why am I finding it so hard to sit down and make that call or send that email or start this piece of work? And I know for myself, there are some things that I find it really hard to sit down and do. And there’s a fear of failure going on because I think to myself, what if this is the time I can’t do it? What if this is the time that I go to write that article and nothing comes out of my head and through my fingers onto the keyboard? Or what if it’s rubbish this time?
Gabrielle:
And so when you get a little bit curious about why am I procrastinating here? Okay, actually, you know what? It’s the fear, or it could be the fear of success. It’s the opposite. What if this thing goes so well and I’m inundated and I can’t cope with all the work? That’s supposedly the dream that you have so much work that you’re turning down clients and you can up your prices and it’s all marvellous. But actually, that can also give you the fear because, Oh, what if I can’t cope with all this work? And I’m selling demand and what do I do? So when you have a look at what is it that’s behind the fear, and then you can think, Okay, well, how can I address this? So if it’s the fear of failure, Okay, when have I done this before? And if you have done it before, did it go well? Right. Okay, so where’s the evidence for the fact that I can cope with this? If it didn’t go well, you know what? I survived. I’m still here. If it’s not something you’ve done before, okay, well, what can I learn about this thing?
Gabrielle:
Is there somebody else who’s done it that I can talk to and maybe they can help me see what is it that I’m feeling fearful of and how I can take the first step to get started? Is it that actually I’m procrastinating because the thing just feels enormous and I don’t know where to begin? So what could be, instead of looking at the entire picture, what could be the first step towards doing the thing? If it’s a fear of success and I think, Oh, my goodness, what do I do if it all goes brilliantly? Okay, I’m what-if-ing. I’m imagining scenarios that I don’t know are going to happen yet. So I could sit here and think about the way I would deal with it, if that would help me. Or I could think, well, you know what? Let’s just deal with that when we get there. If it becomes the point where actually it’s going to be enormously successful, I don’t know how to deal with it, probably I’m going to get a heads up. I’m It’s not going to get a bit of warning. It’s not going to go from silence to a hundred clients the next day.
Gabrielle:
So I’m going to keep my eyes and ears open to look for the warning signs that actually this is beginning to really gather some speed. And then I will talk to this friend. I’ll go into the group on Facebook. I will take a step to see what I can do to get some help and support to deal with it. And so by actually looking at what is the form of procrastination, what is behind it, that’s when you can look at ways that you can start dealing with it so that you can start moving forward. And you don’t have to leap forward and take enormous giant steps to get the whole thing done in one go. You could just take the first step. Okay, so the first step is I need to draught an email. I’m not going to send the email straight away. I’m not going to make it a polished thing. I’m just going to put everything down I want to the email, and then that’s the first step done. And the next step will be to edit it and to make sure I’m saying the right things, and I phrase things that I want to.
Gabrielle:
And so you can just take that first first step when you realise what it is that has been getting in your way to getting you started.
Lee:
Okay, so this makes absolute sense. I’m just thinking back a few days ago, I had to create a how-to guide, and it was there. This wasn’t my question, but I totally struggled with it. I’ll actually tell everyone what my question is. I’m not going to be… I’m not while we’re alive. But anyway, I definitely struggled with procrastination at times as well. And I’m just thinking back, I knew I had to make this how-to guide, and I was making I had a huge issue in my head. It was going to take me ages. So I was like, I’m just going to go and play GTA on the PlayStation because we’ve got this new PlayStation and I’m working from home today and it’s just over there. So I’ll get myself 30 minutes off. And 30 minutes later, I’m thinking, What am I doing? I really need to do this. I suppose I should have said, well, I could make that how-to guide. So anyway, I was unconsciously thinking, well, the other day when I made a how-to guide, I just videoed myself doing it and it only took me five minutes. So why did I just do that?
Lee:
So then I went back to my computer and literally I’d done this thing that I had made a huge issue in my head and made overwhelming. I think you were saying sometimes it’s either fear or sometimes it’s just the overwhelm of, Oh, it’s huge, it’s massive. Sometimes it’s actually not huge and massive if you can compare it to things you’ve done in the past. So hopefully that helps people just to put what is being said into a real-life context. It’s probably not the best example, but it’s an example. It’s something that I recognise when you are describing it.
Gabrielle:
I think that’s a great example because you’ve drawn on the evidence of the past. Okay, well, there was this thing that I did and I did it this way, and actually that worked quite well and actually it didn’t take forever and it wasn’t that big a deal. No.
Lee:
I actually really enjoyed it as well because I like talking and it was on video.
Gabrielle:
Even better. So in which case, what you could do as the next step is that you could then write down, I really enjoyed writing that video because I got to be on screen and I got to talk and I really enjoyed doing that and it didn’t take me very long. So little message to future To me, the next time I don’t want to do this thing, you pull up this word document or you pull up the letter or whatever, however you’ve written it down to yourself. To future me, the next time you don’t want to do a how-to guide or something else, this is what happened last time. Actually, it’s really not that difficult. You can do it off your pop.
Lee:
Yeah, fantastic. In fact, there’s another time today as well where there was a meeting that I had coming up and I knew I was going to have to have this meeting and it was going to be to train someone to do something, and the only reason why I had arranged the meeting was because I was struggling with the idea of putting another how-to guide together. So I thought, Well, I’ll just do it on a meeting. But then thinking about the meeting, it’s probably going to take 30 minutes to 40 minutes because we’re going to have a conversation. So I actually recorded a how-to guide and sent it over to them early and said, Hey, I’ve made you a how-to guide. Have a look at this, see what you think. And if you’d still like to do a call as well, I look forward to talking this afternoon. And they wrote back and said, Oh, this is exactly what I need. No need to talk this afternoon. So yeah, that’s another one. Another one to future I need to start a future me journal. You’ve literally just opened my eyes to something. I tried journaling a few months ago and I was really struggling with it.
Lee:
I didn’t know what to write, and I think you’ve just given me what to write, which is those positive messages to myself and my experiences through the day.
Gabrielle:
Yeah, I find it really helpful. Again, it’s a bit like the question of if this was a good friend of mine dealing with this, what would I say to them? Another way to look at it is, what would Future Me thank me for right now? So Future Me would really appreciate if you just sat your bottom down and got on with it, or Future Me would really appreciate it if actually I just went and got something to eat or went and went for a walk right now. Think about, what would Future You thank you for, and then write that down so that the next time you don’t have to think to yourself, I have no idea what to do to help myself out of this pickle that I’m in or this rumination cycle I’m stuck in. What would Future Me? All right, okay, I can have a look. Future me says, Next time you’re feeling like that, go do this.
Lee:
That’s so I did a podcast a few months back where I actually interviewed Future me, and Future me gave me advice- I love it. Of the things that I’d learned over the last five years of running an agency. So again, I think you’ve given me something else to power that journal. I bought a bullet journal the other day. It’s nice, it’s pink, it looks great. Pink is my favourite colour, everyone. Everyone knows that. And it’s got nothing in it yet. And I know exactly what I need to write down, including a whole lot of stuff after this call, which is phenomenal. So shall I share you the question that I have So I can be honest. So this is my question. I often have feelings of anxiety before client calls for literally no reason because loads of my clients are absolutely wonderful. Are there any exercises that I can do to feel calmer or even to just How do you get rid of the irrational anxiety before I start a client call?
Gabrielle:
I completely hear you on this because I work one to one with clients as well. And I know, I mean, you’re very welcome to tell me if you want to, but obviously also not if you don’t want to, but I know why I feel, because I got curious, why am I getting so head up about this? And I was thinking it’s because I want to do a good job. I want to be a really good coach to my client. I want to really help them. And I thought, okay, so actually, that’s what you do. This is what you focus on. You focus on being of service to the client. So in terms of practical things you can do, what I find really helpful is to, one, make sure that I’m not rushing. So I make sure that I’m ready and prepared in plenty of time. I’ve got everything I need around me that I want to have at hand for the call. Make sure that I’m all sorted in plenty of time so there’s no rushing because that’s just going to add to my stress. I then take some deep breaths. I mean, I meditate every day because that’s something that I find helps me.
Gabrielle:
So if I can, I build in five minutes to just do a really simple meditation where I just concentrate on my breath going in and out of my body. It’s that simple. If I haven’t fed enough time to have five minutes to do that, then I make sure I take a few deep breaths in and out. Or you can do a body scan where basically it’s just about you bringing your mind into the present and to what’s real right now, as opposed to imagining the conversation you’re about to have or what-if-ing, what could happen. So it’s about focusing on the present moment and what is real and what you know right now. So what you know right now is your breath coming in out of your body, or what you know is how your body feels. So you focus on your feet, pressing on the floor, the feeling of your body’s weight in the chair, your back against the back of the chair. And you just literally scan down your body as to how you’re not criticising your body, you’re not judging it, you’re not trying to change it, you’re just observing it. And by doing those little exercises, that helps bring you out of your mind and into the reality of the present moment.
Gabrielle:
So you’re not what-if-ing and imagining the possible future. And then going into the conversation, starting the thinking, I am just going to do whatever I can to be of service to my client right now. So I’m going to listen really carefully to them. This isn’t about me. This isn’t about thinking, Well, how can I make sure that I’m the best person I can be on the phone to them? How can I make sure that I’m whatever? This is about the other person. This is about my client that I’m talking to and what I can do to help them best. And what I can do to help them best is to really listen. Because when you really listen to somebody, not just waiting for when you get to say your bit, but when you really listen to somebody, that’s when you’ll pick up on what it is that they want to know from you, what it is they’re struggling with, and you ask questions. It all comes from the active listening. And so from that place, that’s where you’re going to have a good conversation because all your attention and energy is focused on being of best service to that person.
Lee:
That’s brilliant. That’s really, really helpful. So a few days ago, just for anyone who thinks, oh, meditation is a little bit woo- woo, I’m a big, bearded, fully grown man, and I do love meditation. I had a full on panic attack a few days ago, a combination of transferring from medications, et cetera. And my friend, who does a lot of meditation, and that spoke me through breathing exercises and concentrating on parts of my body and relaxing them, et cetera. And that massively helped. There is so much power in just calming yourself down through concentrating on just the… You don’t even have to be thinking about anything. Meditation is not necessarily thinking you’re on a beach with the Pina gelada and the water is lapping up at your feet. It could literally be listening to your breathing. And I find it exceptionally powerful, especially to calm me down when I’m having one of those weird freakouts, which is rare, but it can happen at times. Just to answer your question, I think there was a bit of a question in there was perhaps why I have the anxiety. I think it might have something to do with the fact that many, many years ago, in both an old job and early in business, maybe 15 years ago, we had a run of quite nasty people in meetings who would always attack me.
Lee:
I think I’m always scared that it’s going to end in an argument or something’s going to go wrong, even though I know nowadays my clients are all lovely and I really carefully chose them because they’re really lovely. And I know that’s not going to happen, but I think there’s this irrational fear that everything’s just going to go wrong, even though I know it won’t and it never does. And I have to have this same conversation with myself every single time. This is not your old client. Last time the call was fine, but I will do the breath thing because I don’t do the breath thing. I only ever meditate when it’s really bad. Perhaps I should get into the habit of This is all becoming therapy for me. I’m really appreciating this, by the way, but I’m pretty sure everyone else can connect and take lessons from it as well.
Gabrielle:
The thing with meditation is that actually the benefit is all out of the meditation when you’re not… I meditate for 15 minutes a day, so we’re talking 15 minutes out of 24 hours. It’s not a lot of time. Not a lot, no. But then what it teaches you, what it teaches your brain, is to recognise when you’re thinking, and that sounds strange, It gives you space between your thoughts and yourself. So when you are in the middle of overth and you are what-if-ing lots of things and you’re thinking, God, this could be a nightmare call, what if they start annoying with what am I going to do? And you’re thinking I always thought, which we all do for lots of different reasons and lots of situations. When you’re in the thick of that thinking, you’re right in it. And the thing with meditation is because the whole point of meditation is actually what people think is them doing it wrong is you’re noticing when your mind has wandered off. So say your focus is on your breath, because obviously it’s not about making your mind go blank because that’s impossible. So if you decide that you’re going to focus on your breath going in and out of your body, that’s your meditation.
Gabrielle:
And then when you realise, actually, You’re not thinking about that at all. You’re thinking about a phone call you’re about to have. When you notice that, you go, Oh, hang on. I’ve stopped thinking about my breath. I’m now thinking about a phone call. Okay, I’ve noticed that I’m going to come back to my breath. That noticing, that’s the real gold. That’s the value, because that’s where you recognise your thoughts, and therefore you create some space because you are now not in your thoughts, you are noticing your thoughts. And so the more that you practise doing that as part of a daily meditation, the better able you are in everyday life to notice it. So then the next time that you’re just going about ordinary life and you realise, oh, hang on, I’m having this conversation I’ve had in my head so many times about me guessing what could happen in this phone call and what if-ing. And now I’ve noticed it, okay, that is not helpful. This is not making me feel good. So what am I going to do to help myself? Because this is not the way I want to be thinking? And it’s noticing that.
Gabrielle:
That means that you’re able to take action because you’re no longer stuck in the thoughts. You’re noticing the thoughts. And so the more that you can practise meditation, the more that you learn to be able to notice that when you’re not meditating, as it were.
Lee:
Yeah. And you notice those thoughts that you can then push away or bat away because of the practise of recognising it and saying, no. Okay, you are being wonderful, by the way. And if I ask all these questions, we will literally be here all day. So I’ll probably ask you two or three more if that’s okay. Now, We’ve got one from a chap with a young family as well. And he’s asking, he’s saying, How do I deal with switching off from my business? He finds himself wanting to work most of the as it were, and he’s finding it very hard to switch off from work and be present when he’s with his family to actually be there, as opposed to in the back of his mind, actually he’s thinking about tomorrow.
Gabrielle:
Yeah. Again, I can totally identify with this Because actually before I do what I do now, I ran my own stationery business for seven years. So I have been self-employed for quite a long time. And when you run your own business, it’s really hard to let go of it because you’re the only person who’s there to do it. And also, generally speaking, you do the thing you do because you love it and therefore you like it. You want to be involved in it a lot of the time. But at the same time, yes, you want to be present with your family and to be fully paying attention when you’re partnering your children or whoever it is in your family are with you. So I think you can do some really practical things, which is you can create a end of day routine. So you can decide at what point, and this could be, it’s entirely up to you, at what point in your day, evening, you decide, I’m going to finish But having an actual cut off point. Now, that cut off point could be nine o’clock at night, or that cut off point could be four o’clock in the afternoon or whenever in the day.
Gabrielle:
But deciding, Okay, this is a point I’m drawing a line in the sand. At this point, I am going to stop work, and creating a end-of-day routine to wind yourself down so you feel like you have completion on the day. It could be that your end-of-day routine is all of 15 minutes, and it’s a case of you sorting emails into folders to look at tomorrow or organising your emails in however way you find most useful. It could be tied in your desk. It could be writing the next day’s to-do list. Whatever you feel-That one’s mine. I love that. Yeah, I do that too. It’s whatever you feel like, Okay, this is going to help me feel more able to let go of today’s workday and focus on the family because I feel like I’ve tied up some loose ends. Because it’s when you have lots of loose ends, you’re trying to keep everything in your head that you’re not able to really be present with your family because you’re still keeping stuff in your head. If your workspace is in a separate room to the rest of the family, if you work at home, because that’s the other thing, when you work at home, it’s so easy for everything to be very blended.
Gabrielle:
There’s lots of convenience. I work at home and I love it, but I do actually physically close the door. Just having the barrier of the door closed rather than the door open makes me switch off from work because of the physical barrier. So every time I walk past my study door, if it’s closed, I feel like the work is on the other side of the door, work is not on my side of the door that I’m on now. So I think you can do some things like that. You can also use technology to work for you. So turn off notifications. Absolutely. And I can’t remember what’s called, but there’s certainly a thing on the iPhone where you can set it to a night time do not disturb mode.
Lee:
That’s right, yeah.
Gabrielle:
Where you don’t… Even if like notifications that you feel you definitely want on, but unless it’s from the emergency people on your list, so I’ve got my mum and my siblings and my husband, they can get through. They’re allowed through the barrier of do not disturb, but everybody else isn’t. So using technology to really help you as opposed to keep you chained to it, which is what can be so easy. And then I think experimentation as well. So if you find you do those things and you’re still getting and find that you’re still thinking about work when actually you really want to be paying attention to what your family are doing, again, get curious about that. Don’t get crossy with yourself and think, Well, I should be able to do this and why can’t I switch off? What’s wrong with me? Okay, so what is it? What is this bothering me? Is it that actually I still need to empty my head onto a piece of paper because writing a to-do list wasn’t enough? Do I actually just need to really splurge it all out? What is it that is bothering That is stopping me from doing this?
Gabrielle:
And get curious and think about it. Is it that literally I need to put my phone in another room? Because actually just having it with me, even though I know that all my notifications are switched off, but there’s still the temptation to go check mail just in case something has come through. So do I actually need to physically remove myself from it? So getting curious about what is it after doing whatever steps you can think of to take is still getting in the way. It’s still stopping me from being present and seeing what’s going on there and how you can explore that and what other steps maybe you could take.
Lee:
I think there’s a common theme here, isn’t it? Get curious. So as you experience the anxiety before a meeting or as you feel you are not present, get curious, ask why, and see what else you can do about it as well. My daughter’s best at calling me out. She’s 12 years old and she can totally call me out for it because she’ll see that I’m looking at my phone and it will be put into the banish box. We have a banish Oh, banish box, brilliant. I try and hide the phone so it doesn’t have to go into the banish box, but sometimes it just has to. If you’re using an iPhone, you can also use Scream. Scream? No, Scream? No, Screentime. There we go. Got there in the end, folks. Screentime, where you can actually just disable even social media and everything else after a certain time. And if you’re on Android, you can also set up your work applications to be in a work profile, which you can then disable at night as well, which stops all those notification messages. And if you then click on your email, it’s going to ask for your pin number.
Lee:
So just the act of, oh, I have to put my pin number to do this just gives me that little extra, do I really want to be opening email at 10:00 at night before I go to bed? Probably not. I think I’m to go to bed. That’s great. Top tip, folks.
Gabrielle:
Yeah, if you put apps in a folder and you put them on the last screen of your phone. Yes, absolutely. So you have to do an extra six swipes to get to it. Even that can be enough to go, well, hang on, why am I swipping? Exactly.
Lee:
Oh, yeah. And inside of that, yeah, you can do that, can’t you? On an iPhone, you can… So not only can you put the folder into, say, the sixth screen, but equally, you can also drag all of those icons onto the third pane of the subfolder, which makes it really, really more complicated. So by the time you’ve done the 18 scrolls, you hopefully have already managed to get curious as to why you’re learning that. And for me, social media past 10 o’clock is terrible because social media is also my business. And I might see a comment of someone stressed out about something, and then I’ll go on that journey with them just before bed. So we’ve got a question here then. We’re definitely coming into land, but really, really appreciate your time. One person has asked, for business owners who operate alone, and in brackets are generally happy so, but sometimes get lost in their own thoughts about what directions to take in business. I guess this is somebody who does a lot of work on their own and doesn’t really have potentially a soundboard, maybe.
Gabrielle:
Yeah, I think that that’s where social media can really work for us because when you’re working, I find that as I am a lone business person And I’m an introvert, so I’m happy working on my own because I find it works well for my energy levels. There are times when I want to talk to other people, and so that’s when being part of Facebook groups, being on Instagram, and making online friends is It can be really useful. And so I think that Facebook… I mean, yeah, people can have a love-hate relationship with social media and with Facebook in particular. But I think the best thing about Facebook is the group facility, because that could be somewhere where you can go and find people who totally get what you’re on about and have the same experiences as you and maybe are a little bit further along in the same path as you, and therefore you can learn from them and you can ask them questions. And that’s where I think that if you’re somebody who likes being on their own and perhaps isn’t keen on meeting up in person networking events, which obviously the thing is we all like connexion and human beings need to have connexion, even in terms.
Gabrielle:
Absolutely. You need to have connexion to thrive. But that connexion doesn’t mean that you have to be meeting people in person every day or every week. So I think find what works for you. I think sometimes we do need to push ourselves a little bit out of our comfort zone It’s not like do something utterly terrifying by suddenly diving off to to some weekend away somewhere in a foreign country that’s just far too full on for you. But actually, if there is actually a little meet up happening in your local town and you could try it out, you could go get curious and see whether you might like that. You might find there’s some people that you really get on with, you find that have really got something to help you with. Or you might go and you go, You know what? I’ve done that. Don’t need to do that again. Thank you. I’ve tried it. Not for me. Or it might be that actually it’s different Facebook groups that you try out and you discover one that really works for you. So I think it’s trying to test yourself a little bit and see where you can go to look for places to gather with other people, to get that opinion, to get that camaraderie and to get that, Oh, yeah, I know exactly how you feel.
Gabrielle:
Me too. I’m so with you. I’ve done that. This is what has helped me. Or actually, I had that issue last year and this is what has helped me. And you could give this a go if you fancy trying it. And it’s whether you do that in person, whether you do that online, it’s up to you. And that’s what you feel is available. But it’s all out there to be tapped into. It just might take a little bit of research and a little bit of experimentation to see what you feel works most for you.
Lee:
And please don’t join any Brexit groups because they’re toxic, as I found out. All right, so last question. This should be more of a practical question, and then we shall let you go. So thank you again for your time. The question is, are there Any resources, recommended resources that you would recommend for people who are in distress, who need to talk to someone who maybe understands their predicament, etc. So I guess this is someone who’s maybe feeling a bit more desperate than most other Any resources or places that you would recommend people reach out?
Gabrielle:
Absolutely. I would go for mind. So that’s, I think they’re mind. Org. Uk, I think online, and they have a phone number, and there’s Samaritans. I think those are the two places you can go to straight away, I think they have 24 hour manned phone lines. And they’re there for a reason. They’re there ready for people to phone them when they are feeling desperate and they are feeling in great need of help. And that’s why they’re there. So you’re not going to be putting anybody out. You’re not going to be a nuisance. That’s why they’re there. So absolutely phone them or go online if that’s what you prefer.
Lee:
And what I’ll do is I’ll have a Google as well and see what else there would be around for people who are listening in around in the different locations. We’ve got people down in Australia and America as well. So we’ll try and come up with a list of help. And also, folks, be sure to check out Dan Mabee’s website as well, WPN Up. If you’re ever feeling like that, I’m pretty sure he’s got a whole lot of resources on there as well for people who need to talk. Well, Gabrielle, you’ve been absolutely wonderful. Thank you. This has been like therapy. Well, it has been therapy because I do have a list of things that I’m going to change that are positive in my life. So I really, really appreciate that. And I hope we can keep in touch. I’m going to let you know how that goes. Now, before we go, I understand you have a course called Worry Less For Life. Could you tell us a little bit about your course, please?
Gabrielle:
Yeah, absolutely. So this is where I’m basically pouring everything that I know and have experienced and learned and researched over the past several years from positive psychology and from coaching and everything that I’ve practised on myself. And I’m pouring it all into one big course that is going to really go in-depth to help you to worry less, to calm your mind, to build your resilience, and ultimately, so you can enjoy life more, because that’s what we all want in life. And so It builds on these three building blocks. So you start off calming your mind, and once you’ve been able to calm your mind, you’re then feeling strong. You’re able to start building up your resilience, that you’re better able to cope with challenges. You’re better able to cope when life takes tricky turns because that is going to happen. That’s what everybody’s life is like. And then through that, you then have the brain space and the strength to then be able to be more present in your day and to just enjoy the ordinary, everyday, wonderful, run-of-the-mill things that are life that you’re missing because you’re spending so much time stuck in your head, worrying about stuff, what-if-ing things, going over and over the past.
Gabrielle:
The course is starting on Monday, the first of April. It’s called And it’s a live course, so I’m releasing the content every week. We’re going to have live calls on Zoom every fortnight so that we can gather together and talk and people can ask questions and we can go over what we’ve been learning in the course. There’s going to be worksheets and all kinds of bits and pieces. I also record everything as well as write it so that you have the option to listen as well as read it, because I know that can be really helpful to people if they want to be able to listen while they’re cooking dinner or they’re driving or whatever. And the course doors close for enrollment on Friday, the 29th of March. There’s some payment plans available to help with spreading the cost of the course. And also there are some bonuses. So there’s some extra goodies that I’m giving away for free with the course as well. I’m really excited to get started. It’s been a long time in the planning and the making, and it’s something that I’m absolutely pouring everything, my heart and soul and brain into.
Gabrielle:
I’m really excited to get started soon. Brilliant.
Lee:
So folks, you can find out more information. If any of that tickles your fancy, as they say here, then check out worrylessforlife. Com. You can check that out and you’ll see inside of the course, through the modules, et cetera, it looks like we’ve actually touched on a few of these things. So if any of these things, like self-care, like meditation, awareness, et cetera, all of those wonderful things today that Gabrielle has shared with us. If you want to do a real deep dive and unpack this and work with Gabrielle over the next few weeks, And then go ahead, check that out. That’s worrylessforlife. Com. Gabrielle, thank you so much for your time. This has been brilliant.
Gabrielle:
It’s been a joy. Thank you so much, Lee.
Lee:
No worries. I shall let you go, and hopefully we will talk soon. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Cheers. Bye. So before the outro plays, folks, just to let you know, as we were mixing this episode, we received a lovely email from Gabrielle Treanor, and she wants to offer anyone listening who is interested interested in her Worry Less For Life online course, 20% off. So that’s 20% off with the following code, which is Lee Rocks 20. So that’s all one word and the number is two zero. Lee Rocks 20. So I presume she thinks I’m 20 years old, or it could possibly be because that’s the 20% discount. So what I’ll do is I’ll pop the information in the show notes as well for you. And there’s also another code if you want to use the payment plan option, and I’ll put that one in the show notes. The closing date is Midnight GMT on the 29th of March 2019. So if that course is for you, then brilliant. And you get an extra gift of 20% off. All right, folks. Okay, now we’re going to play the actual outro. And that wraps up today’s show.
Lee:
Now, if you have been affected by any of the subjects in this episode, then can I encourage you to reach out and talk to someone? I’m very happy if people to connect with me on Facebook, please do that as well. And let’s have a conversation or let’s get some help. If you do want to be a part of our premium community and help contribute towards future episodes, then there is a special coupon that will get you 50% off your first payment. That could be either your first month or your first year. That is 50 off 2019. That’s 5-0 off 2019. And check that out over on agencytrailblazer.com. So wherever we see you, be it in the premium community, be it in the Facebook group, be it at Agency Transformation Live, we shall certainly see you in the next episode.
