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Verbatim text
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host, Lee. And on today’s show, we’re talking with Erica Dickstein. She is sharing her agency journey. She is a marketer who works with other people to build amazing websites and continue to offer ongoing services beyond the build, making sure that their digital presence is freaking awesome. So sit back, relax, be prepared to hear a little bit about Disney as well, and enjoy the ride. This podcast is brought to you by the Agency Trailblazer community. Is agency life stressing you out? Then it is our mission to help you build an agency that you love.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
We’ve created a community which includes the agency reset roadmap that will allow you to get your agency back on the right track. We also have lots of noble straight to the point, easy to consume workshops. We have a thriving community of other agency owners. And we all wrap up every month with a mastermind call with myself and sometimes a special guest where we unpack your questions. For more details, check out agency trailblazer.com. Welcome to a conversation with me. You’re a illustrious, handsome, well, I hope so, host, mister Lee Jackson. And today, we have on the show, Erica Dickstein.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
How are you today?
Erica Dickstein:
I’m very well. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s alright. We were just chatting before the show how you had a tickle in your throat, and the guy outside had decided to do all the trimming.
Erica Dickstein:
I know. And now the tickle in my throat seems to, at least for the time being, have lapsed, and nobody is hedge trimming. So life is awesome.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Universe is balanced in such a way as to allow us to have this podcast together. Oh, my gosh. Right. So, guys, Erica has been introduced to me via Jamie. So thank you, Jamie, for that. And she is from Spring Insight, and we were having a great chat before the show where she was sharing some of her history. And I literally nearly burst with excitement. So she’s gonna be sharing her story.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’m gonna be asking her a whole ton of questions on that. But before we jump in that time machine, Erica, I would really appreciate if you could just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself now, as in your company, what you do, and maybe you can throw in a favorite color or your favorite drink or something else cool about you that nobody knows.
Erica Dickstein:
So my company is Spring Insight. I do website strategy and ongoing marketing support. So basically we build website. The way I like to put it is, we build the monster and we feed the monster, where the monster is the website. Bombs the website and then and then we do a lot of we do we do the content creation for it. So whether it’s writing the initial content, but also the blog posts and curating content. So for mostly for organizations, mostly for professional services organizations that are just under 5,000,000 revenue, we’re their outsourced marketing department. So we’re the person that they hire before they’re big enough to hire their own marketing
Lee Matthew Jackson:
firm.
Erica Dickstein:
Okay. And in terms of other interesting stuff, I have 2 kids who are home from school. So I’m I’m at I live in fear that at some point, one of them is gonna open the door and come and ask me something. So if you have any awkward silence, you know, that’s that’s likely what’s happened since we we just started our summer vacation. Favorite color is purple, which is the spring and spring branding, and I don’t think I would say that’s something that nobody knows about me because my hair is actually purple. So honestly, I feel like I’m pretty out there about that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. My my secret is that I love pink, but I think it’s very obvious from all of our branding if you look at anglecrown.com, especially, that the entire website is pink. Unfortunately, though, I have no hair on my head at least, so I can’t actually dye my hair. I could dye my beard though. I keep telling people that my hair slipped to the front of my face. So I could actually go ahead and dye my beard. That would be absolutely awesome. Now, I am really excited to jump in this time machine because you said a magic word to me, and that was Disney.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And everybody knows how crazy I am about Disney. So if we could jump in that time machine, and could you tell us about that first job that you had? Because you said this was very this whole journey of the of the positions that you’ve held is very much led to what you do nowadays. So I think it would be great to just get an insight into those very early days.
Erica Dickstein:
So as I’ve mentioned, when I graduated actually, even before I graduated from college, I worked for Disney as I’m as I’m sure you know and and likely many of your listeners has a program that’s actually sort of a twofold program. They have where they bring over international students, but they also within the United States have a college program. So I had gone down to Disney on the college program in college. And then after college went back there and worked there for a couple of years. 1st in the parks and then with the Disney Vacation Club. And really just enjoyed my time there. There’s I’ve got a I’ve got a lot of both good and bad to say about the organization and about the way that they do things.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Mhmm.
Erica Dickstein:
But it definitely has been fortuitous in the way that I I feel like my business has taken me where I’ve gone.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That is a lovely word. Fortuitous. I’m gonna try and fit that into my day at some point this evening. I mean, the only person I’m gonna be talking to is my 11 year old child, but I’m certainly gonna try and fit that one in.
Erica Dickstein:
Wait. My 10th grader is just about to start the SAT season. So, you know, I try I try to put an SAT word in every once in a while. Like, this little secret way of getting those words out.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Could I have a very quick insight into what you did in the parks and then what you were doing in the DVC?
Erica Dickstein:
Yeah. Absolutely. So in the parks, I worked in, at EPCOT Center Mhmm. In one of literally, I was just in in one of the stores in a merchandising hostess is I believe what the title was. And while I was there, they actually launched, DDC. So that was I was in the initial class of people that they brought over to sort of represent what they call vacation ownership, which, you know, is is a is a very polite way of saying timeshare. Mhmm. So that was I was in that that initial class of people who promoted that sort of within, you know, taking that outside to other to other places.
Erica Dickstein:
At the time, it was done very, very subtly. Since then, I with my kids, I’ve been back to the parks a couple of times, and I’m always I always think, wow. They they really kind of
Erika Dickstein:
bang you over the with it now, but it must be
Erica Dickstein:
a much more subtle process.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So with the DVC, whenever we’ve been Disney, we end up getting sucked in to go to the DVC meeting, and I always chicken out and never do it. But the good thing about it is it’s not one of those meetings where they kinda, like, force you or make you feel like you absolutely have to buy it. They actually allow you to leave the room. Whereas, when I’ve actually beaten to a timeshare meeting, I felt like I was being held hostage. So I will say that about Disney, they do really well. This is kind of off topic. And for anyone who doesn’t go Disney Parks, I’m really sorry, but I totally gotta ask this question. That means if you were there, that must have been the very early nineties, and I believe that means Horizons was still going.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Did you ever get to go on Horizons?
Erica Dickstein:
Yeah. Ugh.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I so want to have gone on that ride.
Erica Dickstein:
Horizons. Remind me I feel like wait a minute. Now before I say that
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, it was kind of the journey where you journeyed through time and people’s predictions of the future. I think it was, and it showed you, like, the 1800s predictions of the future and so on, and then it carried on, and there was a robot in there, and it just looks so it was like a combination of spaceship Earth and and the great big beautiful tomorrow and all sorts.
Erica Dickstein:
So the energy exhibit
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was next to the energy exhibit.
Erica Dickstein:
Yeah. I feel like I did. I feel like I did, but I’m having a hard time remembering. I was there, gosh, during the so Disney so I I graduated from college in 91. So I would have been there. Yeah. You’re right. In the early
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It closed in 94. So you you you would have seen it.
Erica Dickstein:
How cool is that?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I definitely jealous.
Erica Dickstein:
And, yeah, I don’t remember it. Now I feel really bad.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, I that’s okay. I can forgive that. And, I never actually got to see it ever. So that’s fine. But sorry, that was a com completely random, but I was absolutely fascinated. So Disney, I mean, Disney is a company that has absolutely inspired me. I’ve never actually got to work for them, but we’ve experienced their customer service. I totally understand that, you know, Disney is definitely not a perfect company, but there is also a lot of things that they do really well that we really enjoy as a family, especially things like plussing experiences.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Their marketing is freaking amazing because it’s had us hooked now for donkey’s years, and we keep going back spending exuberant amounts of money and actually smiling about it. So they’re obviously doing a lot of things right, which is awesome.
Erica Dickstein:
I think what they do so well and, allow me to ask, what ages are your children?
Lee Matthew Jackson:
11.
Erica Dickstein:
Well, I’ve got it. So and and you might find that it’s not that, you know, there are other places and other things you wanna do as they grow older. But particularly when the when kids are young, I felt like as a parent, it allowed me to say yes a lot because, you know, that everything you once you go in, you’ve paid forever you’ve paid for it. Like, you just it’s just easy to say yes, which I liked which I like a lot.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And I love as well how they always do these little extra things, those, like, plussing experiences, things that are pretty much free or very low cost. But those little extra things they do, an extra smile, an extra conversation, all of those things just make us raving fans. But this is not a Disney podcast, so I’m totally gonna have to tear myself away from that subject because I know that you worked for another exciting and very inspiring company that was one of the first browsers I ever used and were well, not responsible for, but the only noise that I associate with them is the dial up modem noise before the you have mail, and I believe you worked for AOL. Tell us about that.
Erica Dickstein:
Yeah. So Disney was the first company that I worked for out of college. And after I went back to get my MBA, the first company I worked for after that was AOL. And it was, you know, and I and then I have to admit, if you if you think about the rise and the the rise and fall of AOL, if you look at the trajectory, when you look at the very top of the pinnacle and then you look as it just is starting that descent, that’s where I started. So nobody has to has to ponder the millions that I brought back from AOL from my from my years there. But it was such an interesting company and such an interesting time to be there because since I was there at the height, that was really when the organization was teaching people about what being online meant and what it meant to interact with people all over the world to to basically take time and may have people be able to interact with with people in real time in these very meaningful ways.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
What did you do there at AOL then as well?
Erica Dickstein:
So I worked I was the product manager for online chat rooms, which in and of itself is actually sort of a a a legendary storied job there. But it was a, you know, if you if you think to yourself the a /s/l, the age sex location, like
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I remember that.
Erica Dickstein:
Yep. That’s what I did.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It was essentially, hi. ASL. And then you would say, yes. I am 16, male, UK. And then I can’t even remember what we would talk about after that. I have no idea. I I think it was I don’t know. We just chatted with loads of random people.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I would spend hours on those chat rooms. It was insane.
Erica Dickstein:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It was I mean, you know, they’re they they’ve come to be associated with sort of the creepiest components of them.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Indeed.
Erika Dickstein:
But it
Erica Dickstein:
was yeah. But they’re they were fascinating. And and I think, interestingly, I don’t know that anybody has ever replicated sort of the kinds of things, the the ability to talk in real time with people, not even message boards, but real time about such very specific topics. I think the closest thing that we have now is in the gaming community where people can interact in the games. But the other the really everything else was sort of taken on more of a message board, like a Reddit type thing where but at the time, like, you could go on. If you wanted to talk about knitting at 2 AM, you could go on and there was there was gonna be a knitting chat room, you know, where you could talk about knitting. It was it was really something.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It kinda reminds me as well of the old other old clients like ICQ as well. I think we used to have conversations, and then we create groups on that. So, oh my gosh. The Internet in the old days,
Erica Dickstein:
it’s cool.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. No. Kinda miss all that.
Erica Dickstein:
It’s very different. You know? What we have now, we’re seeing a lot in the form of sort of the democratization of the Internet where you don’t have well, I mean, I guess you get the democratization and then now all of a sudden you are seeing the big companies building building back up.
Erika Dickstein:
Yeah. You know?
Erica Dickstein:
But at the time when everybody came on via this one mechanism, you just had, like, this incredible pipeline of people that can talk.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Yeah. I think the Internet though has been an incredible time for us all, hasn’t it? Because it’s I mean, it’s allowing me and you right now to meet as a result of a friendship I’ve got with a guy I’ve never met who lives in America all through social media where we’ve had conversations because we have a shared interest. But it also, therefore, means that my business has generated tons and tons of leads and opportunities, again, through these platforms where we’ve been able to meet people of a similar interest and make friendships and, therefore, network globally. It still blows my mind. Like, I I feel like a 3 year old or a 2 year old seeing flowers for, like, the first time every time I think about how freaking incredible the Internet is. And I think that me and you and people of our age are really lucky because we remember what it was like before. And now we can see what it’s like now, and it makes us realize I mean, when I was first thinking about starting a business, I was gonna start a print business, and the Internet didn’t even factor into that. And I was having to think in a very local area.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
How would I sell my business locally, etcetera? And now everything’s digital. It’s still am I just being a complete geek right now? Or or do you
Erica Dickstein:
No. No. No. I I think all of us sort of go on these journeys of imagination frequently, you know. And when you think to yourself the expectation that you have of the ease of things, you know, from things like starting a business, like, you know, at one point when we would have, when we started a business, there might, you would have had to have had an accountant who would have kept a ledger book, who would have, you know, and now the tools that are available to somebody who want to start a business, to be able to sort of take out these pain points by, you know, by creating these applications that can reach many people. And it’s, it’s unbelievable what has happened, I think, even just since I started my business.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Absolutely. And it’s allowing people as well who you know, you and me did not start with a huge multimillion pound agency, and yet we are able to approach large companies. I mean, you are working with large companies. The budget you mentioned is or the turnover you mentioned is certainly not small by any stretch of the imagination compared to maybe small local businesses. But through the power of the Internet, the the personal brand that you’re creating, etcetera, you’re able to do business with those people. And I assume that you are not running a, you know, £50,000,000 New York will actually be more than that if you’re based in New York. But you know what I mean? You don’t have a sky rise and, you don’t have thousands of employees. Therefore, that’s the only reason that you can work with those big companies.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
It’s actually through the Internet and that you’re you’re able to connect with those people.
Erica Dickstein:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, many of the you know, I gave you sort of the upside limit, but the you know, many of the companies that we work with are on the smaller side. But it’s also it also I mean, it goes on that same thing that, you know, just like we’re able to extend ourselves beyond what would have been possible in the past based on sort of what the Internet provides, so are so are the clients. And it really is amazing sort of the kinds of things that you can get done every day and kinds of things. I mean, of course, then you’ve got the rabbit hole effect where it, like, it gives
Erika Dickstein:
it a takeaway time.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That’s true. It it is true. Well, there’s another effect as well, which is that I’ve actually outsourced my memory to Google. I tend not to retain things as much. What I retained was the Google search I used as opposed to the actual information that I learned because sometimes I feel like my brain doesn’t have the capacity to just store it anymore even though it’s in there somewhere.
Erica Dickstein:
I would love to see, seriously, like, exactly what you mentioned. So things like sort of Google search or GPS, like what that literally does to the synapses in our brain. I I really do think in the past, I could you know, there was a time when I would leave. I’m I’m I’m 48 years old now. So there was a time where I left the house without a GPS, and I was able to find my way. I mean, not well. I’m not I’ve I’ve never had particularly navigational skills, but it’s amazing to me that now I just can’t even imagine. I can’t imagine if I didn’t know exactly, you know, if I if I hadn’t been to where I’m going a 1000000 times leaving without a phone that’s gonna tell me where to go.
Erica Dickstein:
I think it really, like, it does change the way that you’re able to sort of think and process information.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I can just imagine the kind of hot sweat that I have if I imagine not going with my phone because I’m so used to that feature that if an unexpected road is closed, it’s just gonna find me another route, and it’s also gonna tell me where the traffic is in that. So even when I know where I’m going now, I just have the GPS sorry, the sat nav on the whole time. I I can’t imagine. So I I like you, I would be interested. I wonder what we’re gonna be like in the future. We’re getting really deep here, aren’t we?
Erica Dickstein:
We are.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
We’re gonna have chips in our brains and everything. Yeah. It’s gonna be amazing. But, damn it, no hoverboards yet.
Erica Dickstein:
I know. World. That actually so, you know, that going back going back, I know I shouldn’t I should not draw you back to I really should not draw you back to Disney.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No. You should.
Erica Dickstein:
But what was it? I remember one of the attractions at you know what? I wonder if it was horizons that now that we talk about it, that talks about sort of what the past view of the future was going to be. And it’s very interesting to sort of think about like what That
Lee Matthew Jackson:
was horizons.
Erica Dickstein:
There was okay. So it was horizons. I remember, okay, here’s your random thought of the day. There was at least one section of it where it smelled like oranges and it was like the weirdest thing you’d get through and you’re like, oh, it’s like an orange drip. The but I remember Jules Verne, I think was the I think it was like you were you were walked through with Jules Verne. But it’s this idea of, like, what in the past they thought the future would be versus what what the actual future is. It’s a very interesting it’s very interesting how those, those those differ.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Absolutely. And I just feel like we should start a campaign about resurrecting horizons, but I’m pretty sure that campaign already exists here. But, again, this is not a Disney podcast, but we should totally have this conversation over on the Disney podcast as well. But, hey, what the heck? You know?
Erica Dickstein:
No more Disney. No.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
No. No. Lots of Disney. That’s fine. If you can say Disney every other word, that’s cool by me. But moving on from Disney, I want to talk about Spring Insight now because you’ve got this great background working with some very big exciting companies. You’ve had a great journey with the Internet. We’ve talked about the democratization of the Internet, the fact that it gives people like you and me power to do really exciting things and to run our own businesses as opposed to having to just work for the big massive businesses that there are.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So could you just give us a little bit of insight? I saw what I did there. About the creation of your business, what the seed of it was when you started it, and and what it looked like when you first got going.
Erica Dickstein:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, I mentioned the 2 the 2 organizations that I worked with because I I I’ve really always thought that those two organization really made me become who I was and sort of give me this understanding of how customers should be treated, how easy things should be, what it should look like to sort of be present for a client. And so having the journey was, after after working for AOL, you know, there there’s a number of you know, I made a number of moves, some of which were chosen by me, others of which were, you know, I was working for a company and the company was acquired by somebody else. And I found myself at this crossroad where I was working really, really, really hard. I was, you know, my my husband who’s an attorney would laugh and he would say, you know, you’re working harder than me and you’re not getting compensated to work this hard. Like, is this a value? Is this the right place for you? And and what I just sort of came to realize was at that point, I was working I’ve been I was working for a company that had been acquired by another company, and I really wasn’t driving the dream at all. And at the same time, I would talk to a lot of business owners and talk to them about what their challenges were with the create, you know, where they were with business.
Erica Dickstein:
And what I kept hearing it, you know, I’d hear about when they would create websites and I would hear this idea of, you know, yes. I’m working with a designer and and I would look at the websites after somebody had gotten it created. And I would see through these beautiful websites that are that are stunningly beautiful, but it’s not clear what exactly the behavior is that they want the person to take when they’re on the website. And what I realized was there’s something fundamentally broken about the way that small businesses buy websites. And it and it’s actually captured in this idea of designing websites or I hire a designer. I’m redesigning a website. Well, website really should not be about design any more than you would say I’m designing myself a new house. Right? You wouldn’t say that.
Erica Dickstein:
You might build yourself a new house. You would there’s so many steps that design certainly is a step, but it’s not the entire stuff. Stuff. And so what I decided I wanted to do is I wanted to create a company that made for businesses strategic well thought out functional websites. And I mentioned this, and when I say this, I and I and I and I say completely with all the, you know, with with all the forthrightness I can here. I’m not a I’m not a website designer, and I’m not a website developer. I do not design or develop my websites, the websites that Spring Insight puts out. I am a strategist.
Erica Dickstein:
I talk to businesses about what it is that they’re trying to accomplish, and I sort of shepherd the entire process to make sure that we keep the business’ interest at the forefront and what they’re trying to achieve at the forefront in every single website. So that was how I that’s how I created the business. And then after soon after I launched my first website, about 6 months later, the the person who we created it for came back to me and asked for, hey, can I get the password again for my website? And what I realized was and, you know, I would get so frustrated because I would create these websites telling, you know, this is not something that you set and forget. This is not something that you created. It’s gotta be a living organism. It’s gotta be part of, you know, just like you update displays for your for your story, you would update your website. But what I realized is for many businesses, you know, they they they think that they’re going to have time. I’m gonna do that Thursday at 3 o’clock.
Erica Dickstein:
And then when Thursday at 3 o’clock comes, they’ve got something else that’s going on, etcetera, etcetera. It’s just never their top priority. And that’s when I realized that there there really was a market opportunity for me to be able to create to be able to serve them in that capacity. I know your business very well. I can help you create that content. I can help you create that online presence. And so that’s how we started the the second part of the business. And then obviously the the hosting and maintenance piece stems off of both of those as well.
Erica Dickstein:
But where we really wanna be, we really wanna be the sort of the organization that creates and maintains the digital footprint for predominantly professional services organizations, but we do work with a lot of different funds.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I absolutely love what you’re saying, especially the beginning part. I think a lot of people think that the web build process is just simply designing something. I’ll give you a word document of my content, and let’s put something online, and that there it shall sit. We will build it, and they will come. And very often, I’ve, well, not often nowadays, but back in the past, we would often have those sorts of meetings where the MD would be telling us the colors that the MD likes. This is the managing director of the business, and we’d be trying to steer that conversation as to, well, who is your target audience and what are the actions or the activities that you want that target audience to do? What are your goals with this website? What do you want to achieve? And, again, I love what you’re saying about helping people beyond the web build because you don’t just build it and put it there. You build it, and you continue to maintain sort of businesses sort of businesses enough so that you can create that ongoing valuable content for them?
Erika Dickstein:
So we actually have a we have a 2 step process. At the very beginning, when somebody first interacts with us, we have them answer some questions. And then once we start an engagement, we give them even more in-depth questions. We’re not it’s interesting. We’re not I’m not insistent that somebody actually fill it out and give us copious answers, but that they’ve reviewed it and they’ve given some thought to it and can sort of discuss. We ask a lot of really in-depth questions about, you know, so not just who’s your target client, but really tell us about your target client. Like, you know, is beyond the demographics. Like, how is this going to help them? Where can we find her? Does she have children? Like, what? And so really getting into the head of the target, you know, the target customer.
Erika Dickstein:
And and what I find is that the questions that we ask, those questions, it really it sets us apart in our client’s mind too. I I’ve actually got 2 really interesting stories regarding these questions and the part that they play in in the in that process. The first one is we had I I work with a with a with one organization that has loved that loves our question so much that when they created a secondary company, this is the sec their second company that they were going to owned by the same ownership group. They said, you know, we’re going to engage you to build the website, but can you please get us the questionnaire early because that was so instrumental to us when we built our first website in coming to understand what we were doing and who we were servicing that we wanted you know, that we just wanna look at that early before we can hire you, which I was I I thought that was such a great compliment that it really helped them shape who they are. And just yesterday, this is the the frustrating part about being really good, was we sent the questionnaire off to a to a to a company, another one that’s just starting out. And he he said, you know, after reviewing this, I need a month I need a month to, like, really hammer down my because I realized based on the questions that you’re asking, I haven’t thought my my own business through enough. So, you know, it becomes it’s a it’s a it’s a blessing and a curse to to kind of ask really, really good questions about what it is that they’re trying to achieve and who they’re trying to talk to because a lot of times it sort of uncovers areas that maybe the business owner has glossed over a bit.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I think it’s really important to have that conversation though, isn’t it? Because that means that when they come back to you in one month’s time, that they are going to be prepared. Because if you’d have just both entered into something without that conversation, I guess it can doom the relationship anyway. It can do doom the web build or it could doom the marketing campaign because there’s an awful lot that’s not that’s been left unsaid, and you’re gonna find and unpack all of this later. And that can
Erica Dickstein:
Right.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
That can be that kind of you know, you’ve got kind of relationship levels, haven’t you, of the norming, storming, and then performing. By having those questions right up at the very beginning, that allows you to all be on the same page so you can kind of ignore that storming part where you’re all arguing with each other, and you can all get onto the performing part of the relationship. And I really admire that and definitely commend you for that. That’s really good. Now I do have a question on, I think, lead generation. One of the one of the things that many listeners discuss in our Facebook group is lead generation for for businesses. Now what you’re doing, I understand it’s it’s exciting. You are the extended marketing department for these these medium sized businesses.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But how do you generate the leads? How do you start those conversations that allow you to to get in with the relevant decision makers to build up those relationships?
Erika Dickstein:
So, you know, the I I would say the first and foremost the first and foremost thing is networking. Although I’ve built websites, I find that most of my most valuable leads come come offline. So it’s going out, figuring out a group that that you wanna be a part of, and really, you get in, you get out of it as much as you put into it. So I’ve been a part of a number of networking organizations that, you know, I when I when I join 1, I don’t just put my name on it. I make sure that I attend and get out there and talk a lot and giving a lot of value, to be honest. Like, I will answer. I’m I’m not very picky with my with my time. If somebody you know, if I meet somebody and they wanna talk, I’m I’m always willing to I actually really love talking with people whether they’re paying me or not about websites, and I and I find that I get a lot of return out of that.
Erika Dickstein:
So, you know, I I have on my site, it’s very easy to schedule time with me to to review your website. And so that that’s that’s one of the ways. I also do a lot of speaking on different topics, which which also falls into this idea of sort of giving a lot of value. So putting a lot of information out there. And I never worry too much about putting sort of the secret sauce out there because what I find is either, you know, if the person is able to is capable to taking what you say and implementing it and building it without getting a dime, then they probably weren’t a great client for you in the first place. Mhmm. Or they are just so impressed, and I get this a lot. You know, when I when I talk to people, even when I tell somebody exactly how to do something, they say, oh, you know what? I’m I’m really too busy building my staffing firm.
Erika Dickstein:
I’m really too busy building my law firm.
Erica Dickstein:
Mhmm.
Erika Dickstein:
You can just take care of that.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I agree with that. There’s something as well about the fact that you are giving all of that value out there. If someone does go ahead and do it themselves, then that’s awesome because you’ve done something positive in the universe. You’ve helped someone achieve their dreams by providing that information because when we’re just working with a few paid clients per year, we’re only able to help a few people. But by putting yourself out there and providing lots of free value through, you know, blogs or coming on podcasts like this and providing value to our audience, which we really appreciate. But all of that, it’s great to know that you’re able to help all of those people. And I totally believe that things come full circle because through this, through these different mediums, it is ways that you will educate people and eventually draw those leads as well. A lot of people, I think, are scared about putting information online.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
But like you, we’ve continued to just put everything out there. If people do it themselves, great. And it’s usually the time poor or the people who could do it for themselves, but really like you and want you to do it for them so that they know it’s done right. I think it’s amazing how that happens.
Erika Dickstein:
Yeah. And I I think the only thing the other thing I would sort of follow-up with that is follow-up. I find a lot of especially with web creation. With web creation, they will go from Disney to, to sex in the city. There’s a sex in the city reference that yeah. There’s it’s it’s this funny reference that I think about all the time when I when I think about selling websites, which is the girls are talking about about somebody about of course, somebody is looking for a husband, and there’s this conversation about how men are like taxi cabs. They can be driving around without their light on for the longest time, and then the first person that they pick up after their light is on, they’re gonna marry. And it’s a lot like that with getting clients where you can talk to somebody for years years years about doing a website.
Erika Dickstein:
If they’re not ready, they’re not ready, and you’re not going to convince them that they’re ready. But the key is the follow-up to, like, keep in touch with people and never, you know, one of the things that I that I say all the time when I talk about business development is it’s not that I don’t take no for an answer because I I absolutely do take no, but I don’t take silence as no. I won’t go away if you don’t reply to me and I won’t go away if you just if you say, well, later or maybe or at some point, if I think that I’m the right solution for you. If I think that I’m the right solution for you, I’m gonna kinda I’m gonna keep on you until you until you either say yes or no.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And with regards to the follow-up as well, I think the thing that I’m guilty well, not guilty nowadays. We provide stuff straight away. But there is just the initial when someone has approached you and they get to the point of finally asking for some form of proposal to enter into some sort of relationship. Something we used to do a few years ago is it would take us, like, a week to get back to them with any sort of well, here is your potential. This is what your problem is. This is what we believe your potential solution would be, and this is how you could engage with us. And we were terrible at doing that, and something we’ve learned over the last 2 years, especially, is just being on the ball, getting that information as quickly as possible to people.
Erika Dickstein:
Yeah. I I’ll say I’m I’m I’m I think I’m more in the position of your before picture than I am in the position of your after picture, I’m afraid. We all have room to grow.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Thank you for your honesty. Well, just so you know, there’s a really cool episode called how to write better proposals, and that was, like, a few weeks ago. So if you go ahead and check check that one out on our podcast, there was a chap from Better Proposals, who just gives us a whole load of advice on how to, like, just get better at responding to people. And, yeah. That’s really, really cool and really phenomenal. So, well, it’s been awesome talking Disney, of course, with you, but it’s also been awesome just going through your journey and talking about the Internet, obviously, is always cool. Learning how you launched your business and talking about things like the importance of understanding what people are gonna do on their website, the importance of ongoing content. I love how you said, you know, feeding the monster.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I love all of that and especially grateful as well for you sharing how you are continuing to generate leads through local networking. I’m a massive advocate of networking. We do a lot here as well, but also through providing all of the free value and helping all of the people that you do. So you are absolutely awesome, and I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to come on the show and share your journey with us. I guess then all that is left for us to do is find out how people can connect with you, and then we will bid you adieu.
Erika Dickstein:
Yeah. Absolutely. So my email address is erika at springinsight.com. My website is obviously springinsight.com. Twitter at Spring Insight. Pretty consistent in the, in the naming conventions.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So Spring Insight in all places, just look for the purple. Or is it lilac? I I’m not sure. Is that is that purple or is that lilac?
Erika Dickstein:
I like to call it I usually just I I I like to call it purple. I think it’s in the royal purple royal purple family.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
We’ll call it purple.
Erika Dickstein:
And actually, in the next day or so, I know you mentioned, you mentioned that if you’ve taken a look at our website Mhmm. We are, I think, minutes away from, should I think it really actually should happen today from launching a I I won’t say it’s a it’s not a it’s not a revamp quite. It’s sort of a we’ve made it we’ve made some slight changes and tweak after a couple of years to the site, which I’m very excited about, releasing.
Erica Dickstein:
You know
Lee Matthew Jackson:
what the first thing I did to your website? The minute I I loaded it, I went and viewed the source. I’ve got this terrible habit of doing everything that to everyone’s website. So I was like, oh, wow. Oh, 2010 chat. That’s it. The chat theme. I love how they’ve done this. And then I start exploring how people build their sites.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
So I’m looking forward to seeing a new iteration, like, in in a few hours.
Erika Dickstein:
Yeah. Like, since I don’t build it, I I can’t have too much of a conversation about that, but I can definitely have a conversation about understanding my, my clients’ woes when I went recently and looked at my portfolio and realized that I hadn’t added any new clients in 2 years. And I was thinking to myself, well, we really need to treat ourselves as our own client a little bit better there.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Well, I think that sounds like me and you have to have another podcast conversation in the near future because I think we’ve got way more to talk about than 40 minutes allows. So I hope you will come back soon.
Erika Dickstein:
Oh, absolutely. You invite me. I’ll be here.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
I’ll make sure I do. Thank you so much, Erica. You’re a legend. Take care.
Erika Dickstein:
Bye bye.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Bye bye. That wraps up today’s show. Don’t forget to join the Facebook group if you are not part of the action there. That is agencytrailblazer.com/group. Come and join us all in there. As we support each other, we share gifts, maybe the odd cat picture, although they’re totally out of fashion now, and just share our thoughts and our feelings and help each other out. Also, if you want a bit more accountability as well as joining a mastermind with myself once every single month, then be sure to check out the paid community that we have over on agency trailblazer.com. If I don’t see you in any of the communities, we’ll see you in the next episode.
