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Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host, Liam. On today’s show, we are talking with Jody Maberry and the power of storytelling, why it’s really important to be telling stories in your business that’s part of your marketing, but also stories internally, the power that has, the results of telling stories. Brilliant episode. It was just a wonderful privilege to have Jody on the show.
Lee:
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Lee:
Welcome to a conversation with me, Mr. Lee Jackson. Today we have on the show Jody Maberry. Jody, how are you today?
Jody Maberry:
I’m doing great, Lee. I hear my name all the time, but it sounds so much better with your accent saying it.
Lee:
Well, in England, we would actually call you Maberry.
Jody Maberry:
You would? Oh, okay. I will keep that in mind when I finally get to come to England. I won’t be surprised by that.
Lee:
Well, Well, we were on a… So we were out over at Disney and we were on a bus and a lady said… She pointed at me and she was like, Hey, are you Australian? And I was like, No. Oh, no. Yeah, that started. And then she started laughing at me. She was saying, Hey, what would you say? How would you say where you go when you die? And I was like, What? The morgue? And she’s like, No, no, no. The one beginning with… I was like, What? A cemetery? And she was like, It’s a cemetery. So obviously, you say Maberry.
Jody Maberry:
Yes, that is right.
Lee:
Instantly reminded me of her. Sorry, that was a complete tangent. So folks, if you don’t know who Jody is, and this is probably going to happen a lot because I’ve got that syndrome of squirrel. Jody is a former Park ranger, which is fascinating. You are also a marketing consultant and a host of many podcasts, including one of my favourites, which is the Creating Disney Magic podcast, where you talk with Lee Cockerell, the former vice President of Walt Disney World. You are rocking 200 odd episodes as of this recording. So that’s my intro. But do you mind just sharing with us a little bit about you, Jody?
Jody Maberry:
Yeah, then that’s a great intro. That podcast, Creating Disney Magic, is wonderful. I’m sure we’ll talk about that plenty during this interview. But I used to be a financial analyst and then became a Park Ranger. And then when I left that, I went back to school, got an MBA, and got started in the marketing world, which this is a very short version of how it actually happened, but then got started on podcasts. I started one for , which led to working with Lee Cockerell on Creating Disney Magic. Now I have the Jody Maberry show plus others. I have a total of seven different active shows right now, and it’s just wonderful. I love it. I get to talk all the time. I mean, it can’t get better than that. I get to talk to people like you when I’m guests on shows. I talk to Lee Cockerell every week, Dan Cockerell. It’s great. I just love doing it. I think my time as a Park ranger really lends to that because you have to be out in front of people all the time. You have to know how to tell a story because when you are wearing that uniform and the flat hat, I don’t know in England if wear the flat hat like we do here in the United States.
Lee:
We don’t even have .
Jody Maberry:
Okay. Okay, so that’s a different conversation. But you’ve probably seen the image of the American Park ranger with the flat hat. We have, totally. Yeah, so when you have that uniform on, people expect you to answer all of their questions, and they expect you to be able to tell a story. And that really lends itself to doing what I do now.
Lee:
Yeah. Well, you mentioned something that already has piqued my interest. From financial analyst to Park ranger, they seem so disconnected. Do you mind just sharing that story.
Jody Maberry:
Yes, I was doing exactly what I wanted to do, exactly what I went to school for. That was to be a financial analyst at a commercial bank, and I measured interest rate risk. If interest rate risk went up or down, I would report to the executives what that would do to the bank. It was as exciting as it sounds as I describe it.
Lee:
I don’t feel excited. Was I meant to not feel excited?
Jody Maberry:
Well, I will leave that up to you. Okay. But every day in the summer, I would go hiking when I would get off work. We didn’t have kids at the time, and my wife usually got home a little later than me, and I would stop off at the park. There was a state park in between where I worked and where I lived, and I would hike every day. And then somebody that I knew helped us move into our… We built a house as we were moving. She said, Parks is hiring . And I thought, Oh, my goodness. That’s like a boyhood dream. I should go for that. And as you can imagine, a financial analyst isn’t quite prepared to be a Park ranger. Even though I had two college degrees, I did not have enough in natural sciences to be a park ranger. So I had to go back to school at night and not tell anyone what I was up to and slowly chip away at becoming a park ranger. And it took a year from the day I decided to do it until I was offered a job as a park ranger, it took a year to make it happen.
Lee:
And for the UK listeners then, what does a park ranger do?
Jody Maberry:
Well, I was a law enforcement park ranger. So in that aspect, you can just imagine a police officer, but in the woods, in the forest. But we also fixed things that were broken. That’s how we spent a lot of the winter, the months when we didn’t have a lot of park visitors, we were fixing everything that broke while we had a lot of people. We gave interpretive talks or hikes or walks. We registered campers. When someone came to spend the weekend in the park, we’d set them up. A lot of more paperwork than you would assume, but a lot of spending time out in nature just protecting the park, the resources is what we would say as , but that counts as the trees and the trails and the wildlife and all the beautiful things you go to a park for, in addition to, as a law enforcement ranger, protecting the people from each other, usually. There’s a good wrap up of what a park ranger does. But a big part of what a ranger does, and I touched on that earlier, is telling stories. Because in the United States, Park ranger is an iconic figure, like seeing Mickey Mouse at Disney World.
Jody Maberry:
And so a park ranger is part of the experience. When you go to a park, many people really look forward to seeing a park ranger. And so it doesn’t happen every day, but it’s not uncommon to pose for pictures with kids because They got to see a Park ranger and they want a picture. Sometimes we’ll do Junior Rancher stuff, which is where kids get to learn about the park through a programme, and then they get this nice little badge. So a lot of fun stuff. It’s It’s a more fun job than not. If you’re a police officer, you’re usually dealing with trouble most of the time. But as a park ranger, you’re dealing with fun most of the time with the occasional law enforcement incident that comes up.
Lee:
Sure. Sounds so good. Is there any relation? Because I know, and I think quite a lot of people in the UK have heard of Smoky Bear. Is he related to or is he something else? I know he’s related fire, et cetera, but is that all part of the National Park Service as well?
Jody Maberry:
Okay, first, I have to applaud you because most Americans say, Smoky the Bear, and his name really is Smoky Bear. There is no the in the middle. So congratulations on that. Yes. So Smoky Bear is actually owned by the whole Smoky Bear image, name, all of that is part of the United States Forest Service. There is a lot of crossover. Parks use Smoky quite a bit, especially when it comes to fire prevention. That whole Smoky Bear fire prevention campaign is used in parks across the country But Smoky Bear himself belongs to the Forest Service. You’ll see a lot more Smoky Bear at Forest Service, parks or outposts, things like that. But he does I wouldn’t say he usually wears a uniform because he hardly ever has a shirt on, but he does wear the flat hat. And so quite often a Park ranger’s hat can be called a Smoky Hat because Smoky Bear wears one.
Lee:
Because the hats are very similar from my memory, at least.
Jody Maberry:
Yes, he is wearing a Park ranger hat. Yeah. Cool.
Lee:
I guess he’s like Winnie the Pooh then, isn’t he? Because Winnie the Pooh wears a shirt and no pants.
Jody Maberry:
I bet that’s awkward when they hang out. I’m sure it is.
Lee:
There’s a few gifs as well. Not gifs, memes or whatever they’re called that go around where Piglet and Pooh are walking into the forest and it says that Piglet was very disturbed as he realised that Winnie the Pooh was wearing no pants. But anyway. So I’m intrigued then. So we’re still on ranger life here, especially for us UK guys. And obviously, it sounds like for people in America who absolutely love the Park rangers then, you mentioned that you tell stories. In what settings were you telling stories as a Park ranger? Is that each other or was that mainly to the people who were coming up and getting their picture taken with you or the people you were giving tours to?
Jody Maberry:
Well, it certainly does happen to each other. Park rangers love to spin stories, but more formally, it happens in what we call here in the United States as interpretive programmes. So quite often, that will be pre-arranged where you will advertise it as in, 7:00 at this location, come and hear Park ranger talk about river otters or something along those lines. There’s one, the formal pre-arranged, and that can be in a setting like around a campfire or an amphithe theatre, or it can be a guided hike where a park ranger is talking the whole time. The other is, and this is the most common one, but it doesn’t always get recognised as such, is people will come up and ask questions, and sure, you can give them the shortest answer possible, but you’re really giving them a gift. Instead of saying, Over there, if you go to the hardware store and you say, Where’s the hammer? Oh, over one aisle, right? A park ranger usually won’t do that. A park ranger will tell you a story to go along with it. We’ll get asked something like, What is this mushroom? What’s this pine cone? What tree is that?
Jody Maberry:
Rather than saying, That’s a Douglas fir, maybe you also tell a story about how the bark is fire resistant or something. So a park visitor feels like they really got something. All I did was ask, what tree is that? And I walked away knowing something a lot more. So that happens quite a bit. And Even as a law enforcement ranger, your goal is to get people to stop the behaviour they’re doing. Now, sometimes that requires us to write a ticket. Sometimes it requires us to even arrest somebody. But quite often, and you hope that more often than not, it can come in the form of just education, where you can tell people, Look, if you do this, this is what happens. This is why we can’t allow it in the park. And you hope that’s all that it takes. Now that they’re educated, there’s no need to take it any further. So simply with a story, you can stop the behaviour, which is the goal of law enforcement in a park anyway.
Lee:
There’s real power in stories because with a story, I can understand things. I go to our local church and I’m really grateful that the guy who does the preaching, does the word, et cetera, he tends to intersperse the entire message with a whole lot of stories of things in his own life that just illustrate what it is he’s talking about. And that instantly means I understand it because I can literally apply it to something that actually happened. It helps me understand it. If you were to just tell me words and theory, it’s words and theory that just goes in one ear and out the other. But if you tell me it with a story, that becomes an experience in its own way, doesn’t it? And it really helps you to cement the learning or whatever it is that’s being taught to you.
Jody Maberry:
Yeah, that’s right. When you hear me when I’m talking about being a park ranger and you hear me mention interpretation, yes, that’s storytelling, but that, in my mind, is storytelling with a purpose. The formula that use for interpretation I use all the time. If I’m explaining something to people, it’s basically my formula for podcast episodes. If I’m doing a solo episode of the Jody Maberry show, and it has three steps. First, you tell a story. Story, then you tell why it matters to the person hearing this story, and then there’s a call to action. To show how that would work as a park ranger, for example, let’s say I’m giving a talk about salmon because I’m in the Northwest of the United States, and salmon is a big deal here. So maybe I tell a story about how a salmon is born in the river, and it goes out into the ocean for four years, and it comes back to the same river it was born. And, of course, I’d tell it more detailed than that. And then I would explain why it matters that we still have salmon in the rivers and what they do and how it’s important to not only the environment, but the economy and so forth.
Jody Maberry:
And then, so that’s step two, why it matters to the person that heard it. And then step three is a call to action. So now I’ve got them interested because they heard the story. They understand why it matters to them personally, and then you tell them what they can do to help protect salmon. So it’s just a simple three-step. Tell the story, tell why it matters, and then a call to action. I use that formula all the time. I use it when I give presentations, I use it for podcast episodes, I use it with my kids. It’s something I just adopted and adapted for my time as a park ranger.
Lee:
Why do you think then it is as well so important to tell stories? I love that three-step process. I actually wrote it down as you were saying. Tell the story, why it matters, and a call to action. But why do you think it is important to tell stories other than to just very quickly describe something in just a short sentence? What’s the difference? What’s the magic?
Jody Maberry:
I think there’s two pieces to it. One is, and you can do this without telling a story, just by telling more, giving more information. It helps people understand. If I tell a kid, Don’t run out into the street, and I leave it at that, then it’s just like, Jeez, he was grumpy. But if I tell a kid, Don’t run out into the street because there’s cars coming. They don’t expect you to run out in the street, so knock it off. Then they get it, Oh, okay. I could get hit by a car because they’re not looking for me. You can get the point across without the story.
Lee:
But if you tell them- You’ve thrown the Y in there, at least, haven’t you?
Jody Maberry:
Yes. They understand. But then if you tell a story more than just more of the why, they understand, plus now they connect to it. Now, I didn’t intend to go down this path, but it’s pretty graphic, I guess. But if then you tell a story about a kid that ran out in the street to get a ball and something bad happened, well, now they can put themselves in that shoe, in the shoes of, Oh, my goodness, that would be so terrible. So that’s why it matters. It helps people understand, and now it puts them there with you. It actually physically or mentally connects them to what you’re telling. That’s why telling a story is so valuable, whether you’re doing a podcast or giving a presentation or explaining something to somebody, or even as a whole, if you’re a business or just have your own personal brand, it still matters that you tell stories because That’s what makes you different. That’s what sets you apart. In almost any situation you can bring up, there’s a way that a story matters. Unless you’re in a hurry to get out the door and I won’t stop telling you a story, then you probably don’t want one.
Lee:
One of my friends, Frank Candy, I’m not sure if you know him, he lives over in Florida, and he was explaining to me how he does his talks. And what he has is actually a series of back-to-back stories. He’s actually still got the good old Rolodex, if you remember those back in the day with short cards that he’s written these short stories on that all have specific points. And he’ll actually break up. If he’s got, say, a 45-minute talk, he’ll actually do a series of stories that all are related and then wrap up with the why it matters and then go on into the next story and then on into the next story and obviously then finish with the call to action. And he said he can keep rouncing and repeating this. If he needs to do an hour long talk, then he just intersperses more stories in, et and to take people on that whole journey. So that’s actually an episode on our Agency Trailblazer podcast, so I’ll make sure I remember to link into that. It’s a power of storytelling with Frank Candy. Now, what I’m interested then is in how this does apply to business.
Lee:
You mentioned that it’s telling a story is important for a business as well as telling our children why they shouldn’t be running out into the road. How does storytelling benefit business?
Jody Maberry:
Well, there’s a couple of different ways. First, it sets you apart because whatever you do, there are 10 other people that do the same thing. And why should I work with you over the next person? And some of that comes out through your story. And if people know you, they can connect with you, they can decide, this is someone I really want to work with. Now, you have 170 episodes out, I think you told me?
Lee:
That’s right, yeah.
Jody Maberry:
So over 170 episodes, pieces of your story have come out over that time. And people know Lee Jackson is somebody I enjoy I like him. I trust him. I like the way he talks. All of that comes out because you have been telling your story. And over 170 episodes, more pieces of it come out over time. And that’s how people decide, I like this guy, and I want to work with him. So that part is viable. The other part is that when you tell the story in the right way, when you tell your business story, they they, being the customer, or potential customer, will start to say, Okay, he gets it. He gets me. He gets what I’m trying to do. I think he can help me solve my problem. And there’s just so much that goes to that because people don’t really want to do business with a business anymore. We’ve grown tired of that, but we love to connect with people. That’s how you become a person to people is by telling your story and letting them get to know you and letting them know stories of achievement and how you’ve overcome and how it connects with them.
Jody Maberry:
It’s through those stories that not only do you get clarity, because the more you tell stories, the more clear you become on what you do, but it uncovers clarity for people that might want to work with you, too, because they start to understand you and who you are and what you believe. If you can get that across in the form of a story rather than just statements here and there, it just becomes that much more powerful.
Lee:
I’ll run something by you because I don’t know if I invented this. I’m pretty sure I did not. But it’s something that we found worked really, really well for us. In our main business, we build websites, but a lot of these websites are really complicated builds. You have to do something called a product specification document, which is already boring because I just said that. I think you can feel the stress of a product spec document. It’s boring to write for us. It’s boring for the client to get involved with it. It’s also really boring for the developer who has to read it, who then has to come up with an estimate of time and communicate all of that to the project managers and the people quoting. The whole process is just… But it’s also essential because if you don’t do that, the whole project could fall apart and whatever is built at the end may not even resemble what the client wanted in the first place. So we invented, and like I said, I’m sure someone else has already done this somehow, some way. I’ve just not met them yet. We invented a way of writing a product specification document that would be fun.
Lee:
We approach it the same way every single time. And we explain to the client that we’re going to write a story together. We’re going to create a book. We’re going to decide who the characters are in this story, and we’re going to write the story of their entire journey through the land of Websiteopia. I know that sounds cheesy, but we’re essentially understanding who the the key people are that are going to be using the website. That could be the admins, it could be the visitors, it could be people buying, etc. We give them more goofy names, we give them a little bit of a silly backstory. And then we tell each person’s story, their entire journey of how they purchase a product, what project they wanted to buy or how they filled in a form to get an email, all of those sorts of stuff. So instead of it being lists of fields and stuff like that, we just create this fun, goofy document, split it all up into chapters. And in the end, we’ve now got something that was fun for everyone to be involved, but it was for the developer to read, and they get it because it’s a memorable, fun, silly story with the relevant facts in there.
Lee:
We still have our bullet lists and all of that stuff. But that’s something we’ve been doing for a few years now, and it worked really, really well for us.
Jody Maberry:
I love that. That’s so unique. It’s so fun. The other part is that it makes me wonder what has come out through that process that wouldn’t have come out if you had just sent them generic forms that they had to fill out that had nothing but bullet lists and points and all that. Who knows what else is uncovered through that story process rather than just having them fill out a form?
Lee:
I think with that as well, because you’re telling the story back and forth, you’re bouncing and creating this together with the client and yourselves and also with people in your team. Someone else will say, Yeah, but what if? And you’re like, Oh, yeah. And then that creates a whole new chapter. But that’s really helpful because when you’re creating a product specification document, you don’t necessarily think of all of the what ifs or remember absolutely everything, which means there may be a big glaring obvious hole. When someone’s purchased something, you’ve actually forgotten an entire process of them receiving a notification email or someone approving the order or whatever it is. But when you’re doing the whole journey of storytelling, I don’t know if there’s something in the human brain or something, but it just unlocks that creativity and starts to… I think it creates authors of us all and we’re all able to think a bigger picture. It’s effective. We don’t do the whole thing necessarily all the time because sometimes you just need to do the story for the little bit that’s really complicated. Everything else can just be bulleted because it’s plain and simple and obvious.
Lee:
But sometimes it works even just for the small areas. This is going to be the tough bit. Let’s create a story for it. We’ve had great fun.
Jody Maberry:
Let me give you another example of how using story in an unexpected way can work. I know you have talked to Lee Cockrell, retired executive vice president of Walt Disney World. One time, he thought, We can do better. Now, this story is probably better in his words than mine, but I’m the one telling it, so that’s just how you have to take it. But he knew they could do better than they were. He had this vision of what they could create and how good they could serve customers. He wrote a story about a family that visits a Disney property, and they stay at a hotel, one of the resorts, and then they go off into the park and all that. But rather than say, This is what I expect, and just listing them out, he wrote it as a story, and then he sent it to every cast member and said, This is what we’re trying to accomplish. What a difference that makes to get that as a story. So you’re reading about the family and what they experienced, and then all of a sudden, it’s in in your head that, Oh, okay, this is what we’re going to do.
Jody Maberry:
This is how we’re going to do it. It’s not just someone telling you what to do. It was Lee Cockwell telling them a story about what they were going to create.
Lee:
It’s cool, isn’t it?
Jody Maberry:
Yeah, it is. It’s such a different way to go about it.
Lee:
Absolutely. And again, if you were to say, We want to create an experience that is satisfying and unique to our customers, that is completely non-relatable. That’s right. And boring. But again, stories. I think a lot of it is, isn’t it? About being able to put yourself in that position. We project ourselves into these stories, don’t we? And naturally, as humans, we have that empathy towards the characters, and we can see ourselves in those situations and wanting to have those experiences, et cetera. I think that’s got immense power.
Jody Maberry:
Yeah. It really does. It takes this this mass of guests that philtre through, and I’m still using that Disney example. It takes this mass of guests that philtre through all day, every day, and all of a sudden it turns them into a single family that’s there to have their dream vacation. And once you get that into your head that, okay, this isn’t a lobby just full of people. This, yes, the lobby is full, but it’s 10 individual families that are here to have a vacation of a lifetime. Once you understand that, you will see the purpose of your job much differently.
Lee:
I guess that shows the power of the story, both internally, but also the output and the outworking of that story externally as well as in with the clients themselves. The team get the story. They are seeing 10 families that they’ve read in that story. The clients, as it were, or the visitors, the guests are getting the benefit from that because everyone they’re interacting with all have that story at the back of their mind and want to create that same experience, that same wonderful experience for all of the guests, which is phenomenal.
Jody Maberry:
Yes. And this can be used in different ways. Now, this might need tweaked a little bit depending on your situation. But when I was a park ranger, the region director one time sent out a little, I don’t know, I’ll call it a poster because I don’t know what other term to use. But it was maybe 10 inches wide, 3 or 4 inches tall, and he wanted everybody to put it above the door as you head out the ranger station. And I don’t remember the exact words, but it said something like, What can you do today to make sure the visitor has a great time. It was something like that. And doing it that way, as opposed to just saying, say hi to everyone, just telling people to do something, then all of a sudden it leaves it open. It creates a story in the park ranger’s head as they walk out the door. What can you do today to make sure the park visitor has a great time? Well, now I’m thinking about that as I walk out, and I start making up stories in my head, and then I look for things that, well, if I just stop and roll down my window and say hello, that will make their time better than if they had just seen a park ranger drive by.
Jody Maberry:
Why? In one sentence, the region director found a way to open up a story for all these . So as they went out into the park, they would look for these opportunities. When Lee Cockeroll was with Marriott, he did the same thing. Instead of coming up with a mission statement or this is what we believe in, he just had a statement he would say to… This is when he was a general manager of a Marriott Hotel, and he would just remind people of this, be so nice to the guest, they won’t believe it. He didn’t come up with a mission statement. He would just remind people, be so nice to the guest, they won’t believe it. Now, as the Marriott employees would interact with guests, that was in their head. That one little one-sentence story was in their head, and they would go out of their way to do something that was so nice for a guest that they couldn’t believe it. And Lee Cockwell created that with one sentence.
Lee:
That’s beautiful. I think I want to have that open our wall as well, just internally, because we’re always talking with clients here, they’re via email or on the phone, et cetera. It makes me think as well of Disney when they go around plussing experiences. Obviously, they’ll try and plussing experience on an actual ride and that thing. But cast members are of the same mindset, aren’t they? They’re very often trying to find ways of making things magical, be that giving you a sticker, having an extra conversation. One guy, I remember Mike outside of one of the restaurants was ringing a bell. It was in Liberty Square, and he saw my little girl. He’s like, Hey, it’s your first time? And got down on his knees and sang her a song about it being her first day.Oh, that’s wonderful.We never forgot it.
Jody Maberry:
My cousin’s daughter, who is about to turn 20, so she’s 19 years When she was a little girl, maybe eight or nine, they went to Disney World and they rode the shuttle bus from the parking area to Magic Kingdom, and the driver drew her a picture with something that simple, and she kept it. He didn’t have to do that, and they would have been just fine. But he drew this little girl a picture, and 10 years later, she still has it and remembers that experience. It goes back to that statement, be so nice to the guests, they won’t believe it. Well, that didn’t have to be done, but it was so nice that they couldn’t believe that it happened. Walt Disney did leave that legacy behind it. He told people at Disney, Keep it clean, keep it friendly, and everything else will take care of itself. They have continued that legacy because Disney World, Disneyland, very clean and incredibly friendly.
Lee:
Absolutely. Now, I feel like this is a huge question, but I’ll ask it anyway. I said earlier, I think before the show, you do talk in really good sentences because that’s really easy for me to consume. You may have a good answer for this one, but how would a company go about unpacking their own stories or even working out what stories they should be telling?
Jody Maberry:
Well, I think it begins by telling it to each other, figuring out what it is. You don’t want to tell a story for the sake of having a story to tell because it’s got to matter. For For example, I don’t particularly care, although I live in a small community, so maybe I do, but I don’t particularly care that the local hardware store was started by the owner’s great grandfather, and it’s been in the family ever since. That’s a neat fact, but it doesn’t mean I’m going to shop there as opposed to drive to the next hardware store. So don’t tell a story just for the sake of telling a story, although it’s better than not telling any story at all. But find out how it matters to the people that shop there. What problem are you solving? Who is it that comes to visit you? Who do you want to come and visit you? And I’m still thinking of the hardware store when I say that. Because if you have that in mind, then you can begin to uncover what story would matter and what story If we’re telling a story, makes somebody want to be a part of it.
Jody Maberry:
I’ll give you a little example, and this is so minor, but they have a popcorn machine in the back of the local hardware store. I guarantee you my kids care more about that being part of the story of going to the hardware store than their great grandfather started it out of the back of a wagon. That may be difficult to connect that line right now, but But think of it that way, that if you’re a parent, and I’ve got my kid with me, but I need to go pick up a gallon of paint, and if I just go in to here, they’re going to get a free bag of popcorn. It is part of the story. I know it’s not directly a story, but it is part of the story that you’re now pulling the customers into being a part of. Look for the story of who you are and what you do and what problem are you really solving, and how can you involve other people into that, and help them realise through the story you’re telling that, Oh, they do solve the problem that I’m having. Because I can get a gallon of paint four different places where I live.
Jody Maberry:
But why do I go to this one over that one? And it’s not price. That’s not the story you want to tell. So make it an experience. Make it a story that you’re telling that people want to come and be a part of.
Lee:
And that experience in its own right, you were talking about Lee saying, treat them in a way that… I can’t remember the phrase that you said now that they wouldn’t believe. What was the phrase?
Jody Maberry:
Yeah, treat them so… Treat a guest so nice, they can’t believe it. And so that’s the other thing. So if I go into one place and it’s a dollar cheaper for a gallon of paint, but they never even say hello. You’re not going to go in? Yeah. I go into the other and they say hi to my kids and give a bag of popcorn.
Lee:
There you go.
Jody Maberry:
Yeah, it might be a dollar more expensive, but I like it better. I’d like to be a part of that.
Lee:
That is also a story that I, experiencing that I’m going to tell other people as well. Seriously, don’t go down to that shop. They are miserable, but you’ll never guess what. We went in, the kids had popcorn. I got lots of advice because I wasn’t sure if I needed this type or that type. I didn’t have to stress out because the kids were occupied, although They went crazy later because there was too much sugar. Just don’t tell that bit of the story.
Jody Maberry:
Yeah, there you go.
Lee:
And I’ll often have conversations with my own communities because understanding your own story is important, and also your mission, being able to tell that internally in your business and understanding what your mission is and who is your serving, the problems that you’re solving for those people, because those stories are powerful internally. And that also then ends up affecting your message, doesn’t it? Outgoing, you can tell You can create, even if it needs to just be one-liners that will resonate with the people that you are serving. If you’ve been able to create those avatars or those imaginary stories of the people that you are serving that you’ve not yet met, but you can be talking in their language and mention things or talk about things that resonate with that audience or those types of people, then that also attracts people to you, doesn’t it?
Jody Maberry:
You’ve hit on something so important, and I’ll go back to Parks to illustrate this. We would hire a lot of seasonal help. And if we tell people, Look, you’re here for the season, and your job is to clean bathrooms, and if someone breaks a bottle on the road, go clean that up, and then we’re going to have you pull weeds, and tomorrow, it’s more of the same. Who’s going to be excited about that? And who’s going to feel like you’re actually making a difference? But if I hire a new seasonal employee and I tell them, Look, I know you’re only here for the summer, but this is so important because look who comes here. We have kids that have been in school all summer. We have teachers that come here. We have doctors and attorneys and business people who have worked so hard and they’ve saved so long just to come here for the summer. And this is their big trip. This is their time with their family. This is what they need to recharge and go back. So when they go back to their office or they go back to seeing patients again, that they’re fulfilled and they’re happy, and they had a great summer because they came here.
Jody Maberry:
And in order to make that happen, we have to have the restrooms clean. We have to make sure that, yes, the park’s natural, but there are certain places that in order for it to look and feel like a park, there shouldn’t be weeds, and we have to keep it safe. So if someone breaks a bottle on the road, we got to pick it up so a kid doesn’t get a flat tyre or whatnot. See, now the job description and the work they’re doing is the same, but the purpose of why they’re doing it is drastically different, and that’s changed through the story you tell them.
Lee:
Well, you’ve given them the why.
Jody Maberry:
Exactly.
Lee:
Which is awesome. I am absolutely loving this conversation, and I honestly think we could probably talk for hours about this.
Jody Maberry:
I think so.
Lee:
Because I think we’re both on the same page and we’re both equally as excited about the whole subject. I think would be best for now if we could wrap up with one last question. I think for a lot of people and maybe a lot of businesses, especially when you’ve got that corporate set up and storytelling doesn’t naturally feel a part of your environment. Do you have any advice for how either business owners or people within a company or solopreneurs could maybe just get started with some basic storytelling, something to slowly ease them into this magical world?
Jody Maberry:
I think you can start as simple as a sentence, like what we said, the region director did at parks. What can you do today to improve a park visitor’s experience, or what Lee did, be so nice to the guest, they won’t believe it. If you start even with a simple sentence, it’s a good way to dip your toe into it. Now, that is all internal. But then if you want to go external, my favourite way to tell stories is through a podcast. You don’t have to be an individual to do that. You can be a business and use a podcast to tell stories, to highlight, even to highlight customers, people that have used your product or service and done really well. You say, Hey, can you come back? We want to tell your story, and you do it through a podcast. You introduce people to how you do the work. I’ve got an example. There’s a construction company I work with. They build custom homes. And on social media, we’re always showing the job sites. Our reason for doing that, and we did do one blog post about this, our reason Our goal for doing that is if in this community, there’s other builders to choose from, but we’re always showing our job sites because we realise one of the big complaints about contractors is how messy the job sites are.
Jody Maberry:
Well, before you even have to worry about that, we’ve been showing you what it looks like, and you will see it’s very clean, it’s very tidy. We clean up end of the day. And we’ve been telling that story through photos and not many words, because we just want possible customers to see They do really keep a clean job site. And in the back of their mind, they’re knowing that’s one of the things all my friends have told me is really bad about contractors, is the job sites are always dirty. I’m embarrassed for people to come over while they’re working. Well, we’ve We’ve done away with that problem by telling the story of how nice our job sites are. And we’ve done it through photos, and then we did it with a blog post saying, Why do we show you our job sites? And we tell them. So now Now, when somebody comes in and they’re interviewing three different contractors, well, they already know what our job sites are like. They already know why we’re showing them the photos because we’re proud of that. So I And I give that as an example of there’s just a little way to take something you’re probably already doing and find a way to tell it to a customer in a way that it matters.
Jody Maberry:
And so if we philtre that through the interpretation framework I told you about. The story is the job sites on, Look, this is what we do. We keep the job sites clean. Why does it matter to you? Well, you’re not afraid to bring people to your house because it’s still going to look good even though we’re there working. You don’t have to worry about your safety because there’s no nails. We’re cleaning all this up. Maybe with that one, the call to action is, Hey, come and see us. We’ll even show you a job site, but at the very least, just talk to us because you know we’re going to keep your place looking good while we’re there. I think anybody can find something they’re already doing and find a way to tell the story of why they’re doing that in a way that matters to a potential customer.
Lee:
I think there’s a couple of things I’ve taken from this conversation as well, Jody. One of them being that you don’t have to tell your whole story at once, but actually, you were saying over 170 episodes, parts of my story have been coming out. And as people have been exposed to those different touch points, it’s helped create the story in their own minds and their experiences of me. And then the second thing you were talking about is that creating something that people want to be a part of the story. And we’ll often find that people will connect with us through the podcast after listening for several months, and they’ll then want to work with us in some way, be it through consultancy, be it even just having a conversation with us, but just them wanting to be a part of the story. I think those are really two powerful messages, and I hadn’t really connected either. First of all, you don’t have to tell everything at once. It can be over through different touchpoints, et cetera, and also creating something that people want to be a part of. So we all want to be a part of something and being a part of somebody’s story.
Lee:
I think of a company called Dubzado. They are a CRM system. It’s not very exciting. It’s a customer relations management platform. That’s not the most exciting thing in the world. However, they tell their story. They tell the story about why they started it, which was to save time and to have more time with their family, which is instantly something that I engage with. But also they share pictures of them all having fun, including their family, their office, and they share videos of the great times that they have in their office, having conversations, creating things, joking, etc. And I want to be a part of that story. Their product is not necessarily the leading product in the industry, but I want to be a part of their story and a part of their journey. So I use their product and I do put up with some of the things that it doesn’t do because I get to be a part of their story and I absolutely love it.Jody.Oh, wonderful.
Lee:
You are a legend. I have loved talking to you on this episode. We’ve gone way over time, but it’s been brilliant. Before we go, then, folks, you can connect with Jody over on jodymabury.com. That’s M-A-B-E-R-R-Y. I’ll put links in the show notes. Also, you run the great podcast. Again, links will be in the show notes. That’s the Creating Disney Magic podcast, The Jody Maberry Show. Can you quickly tell us as well about your new show with Dan?
Jody Maberry:
Oh, this one’s so exciting. Dan Cockrell, who happens to be Lee Cockerell’s son, but had quite a career himself, 27 years at Disney, retired as the vice President of the Magic Kingdom. We just launched a show together called Come Rain or Shine, and it’s about leadership and culture. Dan does such a great job drawing from his stories at Disney. Speaking of storytelling, no matter what lesson he wants to teach, he’s got a great story to go with it. It’s a weekly show, comes out every Thursday. Creating Disney Magic comes out every Tuesday. Come Rain or Shine comes out every Thursday. It’s It’s fantastic. It’s a lot of fun. There’s a lot of excitement in launching a show, and this one’s still pretty new, so I’m really excited about that one.
Lee:
I can hear that in your voice. Folks, remember, if you want to stay connected with what Jody is up to, that’s jodymaberry.com. Jody, thank you so much for your time and have a wonderful day, mate.
Jody Maberry:
Thank you, Lee. This has been tremendous.
Lee:
Cheerio.
Lee:
And that wraps up today’s show. I’m sure you all agree, that was crazy Good. So what stories can you be telling yourselves internally as a team? And what is the story of your business? So get planning. Feedback to us. Let us know how that’s going. We have a Facebook group. It’s free to be a part of. You can find that over on agencytrailblazer.com/group. We’d really appreciate your support as a podcast at the moment. We’re not getting very many reviews over there on iTunes. I know it’s a pain in the butt you have to actually download iTunes to give the review, but we do know that there are literally thousands and thousands of people listening to the show. If just a few of you could help us out with a few reviews on iTunes, that would be absolutely appreciated. If you’ve got this far and you’re hearing this, please find some time to give us a preferably five-star iTunes review just to help with the credibility when other people find the podcast. If you find a podcast and it looks like hardly anyone listens to it, then it’s going to be difficult for us to share the word.
Lee:
It would be freaking awesome if you could help us out and leave us a nice five-star review over on review over on iTunes, or of course, the podcast reviewing service of your choice. Although I don’t know any, so if you know one, let me know because that’d be awesome.
Lee:
All right, guys.
Lee:
Have a wonderful day.
