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Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast. This is your host, Lee. In today’s show, we are talking with Hans and Donata, helping you make the right decisions with regards to privacy policies, both for you and for your customers. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. Welcome to a conversation with me, Mr. Lee Jackson. And today, we don’t have one guest. We’ve got two guests. We’ve got Hans and Donata from Termageddon. Guys, how are you doing?
Hans:
Doing well.
Lee:
This is so cool. It’s actually disorientating. It’s really rare that I have two people on at the same time.
Hans:
Well, that’s what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to disorient you.
Lee:
Thank you. I appreciate that. Guys, if you don’t know who Hans and Donata are, then check out their website. You can find out all about them on Termageddon.com. If you can work out how to spell that, you’re a legend. If not, check the show notes. There is a link and go straight down to the bottom and there’s an About Us page you can click on and you can see a cool picture with them and their cat and learn all about them, connect with them on LinkedIn and Twitter and all of the other good stuff. But me and Hans, we met just a few weeks ago via WhatsApp, well, via the Internet, had a chat on WhatsApp. And then, lo and behold, he turns up in the UK at my event and actually ends up on a panel and then agrees to speak with Donata next year at Agency Transformation Live. A lot can happen, can’t it? In just a few weeks, mate.
Hans:
It sure has. It’s been a wild ride. And ever since that event, I’ve stayed friends with quite a few people that I met. I don’t know. It’s just all around been a phenomenal experience.
Lee:
They’re a great community.
Hans:
It really is.
Lee:
Shout out to all you guys out there. We love you. But let’s learn a little bit more about you guys. That was my introduction, but would one of you like to take the reins and just introduce yourselves a little further to the community, especially for the people who don’t know who you both are?
Donata:
Yeah, sure. My name is Donata. I’m the President and co founder of Termageddon, and I’m an attorney. I work in Illinois, and I’m also a certified information privacy professional. I’m the one that wrote all of the questionnaires, wrote all of the answers, wrote all of the text for our policies. Hans Hans is our vice president.
Hans:
And co founder.
Donata:
And co founder, sorry. First argument. If this was our first argument, we’d be doing it real well. Yeah. And he’s his own web agency. Hans worked at Groupon. And he’s got this great sales and marketing background. And he knows what it’s like to be an agency owner and what agency needs. And Hans is in charge of our sales and marketing, on making sure that our clients are taken care of, on forming agency relationships.
Lee:
Now, that’s that’s brilliant. And it’s obviously one of the reasons, I guess, Hans, why you came and visited. And I’m glad that you did make some good friendships as well when you were over. Now, I’d really love because you two are also a couple, and I don’t get this very often, and non-work-related, I’d just love to know how you two met because I love the soaps.
Hans:
Can we take that one? Sure. Awesome. So I ran a web agency for about seven years, and I was looking to acquire a software company that was local in Chicago. And Donata was their COO in providing legal services, too, right?
Donata:
You were returning. Yeah, at a certain point. Yeah, towards the end.
Hans:
But yeah, after I acquired that company, I asked her out on a date, and she didn’t realise it was a date. She thought I had more paperwork to give her, but Yeah, you said business meeting.
Donata:
I never said business meeting. Yeah, you did. You did say that. But yeah, you know how I knew was the date? Hans wasn’t wearing sweat pants and was on time.
Lee:
What?
Hans:
This is brilliant. It’s actually really cool. The day that business meeting that she thinks was a business meeting, she happened to also give me a piece of paper that said… I hired her for some work with a client just Just a one-off prop policy I needed generated for a client. And she wrote, I guess, the attorney’s right, this is the end of our business relationship.
Donata:
I finished the work. It’s been a pleasure to work with you. It’s done.
Hans:
When we went to this business dinner date, she gave me this piece of paper that she signed, and I kept that, and it’s now framed in our house. It was really cool. My favourite part about it is that I guess she didn’t have… She was on a rush to get to meet with me, so she couldn’t find a regular pen. She signed it in this pink glitter ink.
Lee:
That sounds awesome.
Hans:
Oh, it’s great. I love it.
Donata:
Yeah, that whole morning was such a mess because I went to work, and then I was going to work out, and I wore my workout clothes, and I went to work out. And then I remembered, I looked in my bag and I forgot my regular clothes. So all I had were these sweaty work clothes that I was in. I had to go get an outfit somewhere. So I wasn’t wearing gross sweat pants to this meeting in that evening. And I remember the CEO of the company that I worked for was like, Why do you care what you wear? Hans is going to be wearing sweat pants anyway. And thank It’s odd that I went to go to the store and got some normal clothes because he wasn’t wearing sweat pants for the first time ever.
Lee:
Well, we will get into the other stuff. But right now, you realised at that point, because he was wearing the posher attire. Was he awkward or was he Mr. Confident and Cool?
Donata:
I think Hans is always a bit awkward, as am I. I am so happy that I don’t have to date anymore. I’m absolutely the worst.
Lee:
That’s exactly what I said to my wife the other day.
Donata:
Thank God, I don’t have to do any of that anymore because I’m not good at it. But it was pretty smooth. He was pretty good. He started out as more business conversation and then started asking me questions about myself, which was nice. Good transition? Yeah, I think he was pretty good.
Lee:
It could be a podcast host, mate. That’s what I do. We’re doing the personal stuff now, but then we transition into the business.
Donata:
There you go.
Lee:
So guys, you said it was the end of the business relationship, but that’s not actually quite true, isn’t it? Isn’t it? The beginning of a new business relationship because at some point you guys decided to launch this brand new business together. So you’re I guess this is a twofold question. Number one, what is Termageddon? And then number two, what seeded the birth of that company?
Hans:
Termageddon is a privacy policy generator that automatically updates whenever the laws change. We do more than just privacy policies, terms and conditions and disclaimers and user licence agreement and so forth. What makes us special is that we are hyper-focused on helping web agencies educate their clients on the importance of privacy policies We even pay them recurring commissions to refer us over anyone else. To start off that relationship, we give every web agency a set of policies for their own website. All that we ask is if you like what you see, you refer us to your client base. That’s our programme, and it’s going well. We’re signing up quite a few web agencies around the world, really. Then how the idea came to be a reality was Certainly not right after that date.We were together for years.It.
Donata:
Was like years.
Hans:
It was actually just over dinner. She was just talking about how she creates privacy policies all the time in terms and conditions all the time for websites. I was just telling her, I get the question all the time, what should I do for privacy policy? But I was sharing it with the pains that I was feeling as an agency owner. I swear, it was every three days before site launch, I would get the question, What should I do for a privacy policy? Then sure enough, I’m sitting there with my pants down, no answer. Then I realised it’s going to be two weeks before this person gets an attorney and gets it created and then gives it back to me. Now I’m having elongated pipelines. I’m getting paid later on. It was a cash flow issue even. From that dinner, I just shared my stresses, she shared hers. We came up with this generator idea, and then we realised, Well, there’s tonnes of generators out there. I was like, Yeah, but I have never been incentivized as an agency owner to use the one over the other. That’s why we did Termageddon, to encourage agency owners to use our programme.
Hans:
Because I believe rather than paying Google for exposure, agency owners have the direct connexion with their customers, where they can explain and pass off value to business owners who are not maybe in our technical space that might not know how important this stuff is. So that’s our angle.
Lee:
That’s good. I guess it’s helping the agency owner do their due diligence. A, obviously looking after their own website, making sure they are complying with relevant policies, etc. But equally, ensuring that they are providing that service to their own clients. Because so often when we launch a website for our agency clients, it’s the exact same pain point. Nobody’s the privacy policy. Someone’s downloaded one and filled in a few of the blanks, but they’ve actually missed a whole load of things. Some of the clauses are or. They’ve actually left both clauses in. You’re like, which one is it? Because you’ve not finished this. But it also means, therefore, that either that side is not compliant or they’re leaving themselves open to issues, etc. As an agency owner, I am not a legal expert, and I don’t ever want to be, but equally, I don’t want there to be any come back either on me or on my clients as well, because obviously my clients are serving their clients, and I want to ensure that they’re doing that. I’m guessing the way this would work is I would have your policies on my site. Great. I get to know how it works.
Lee:
Then every time we’re doing a new site with somebody, we’re saying, Great. Then you can get your policies here from terming it out and follow through this. If you need any extra help, the team there can help you out and all that stuff. That’s your marketing machine at the same time.
Hans:
Yes. What’s great is that as an agency owner, you can share access between a set of policies. We call them instals. So you can share an instal with your client, so you both can be editing the policies. What we find is that agencies are very quick to know what fields need to be answered, but sharing the instal with your client to review it or create it is great, too. Yeah, so that’s how that works.
Donata:
Yeah. And we actually see a lot of agencies go not just to their current clients on the websites that they’re building, but also to their old clients. So they’re adding us on to their maintenance plans as a way to increase value for people, as a way to retain their clients. So we do have a lot of agencies sharing it to their clients of the past, too. And we give them some great marketing materials as well if they’re interested.
Hans:
And Lee, one other thing real quick. You mentioned, Hey, I’m not an attorney, which I also learned is also that word in From England, it’s called a solicitor.
Lee:
Solicitor or a lawyer. A lawyer. Use it interchangeably. I don’t think anyone knows the difference.
Hans:
Yeah, that’s right.
Donata:
It’s like lawyer and attorney. Nobody knows the difference.
Lee:
Yeah, we’re the same here.
Hans:
But solicitor in America means someone who goes and sells door-to-door sales.
Donata:
Yeah, like knives and vacuums and stuff.
Hans:
The thing about agencies being a little concerned about discussing the importance of privacy policies, this is where I tell agency owners, It’s like, if you’re building a website that collects as little as an email address on a contact form, that means you’re building a website that’s collecting what’s called personally identifiable information. From that point on, you should just be, Hey, I suggest you get a privacy policy because you’re collecting personally identifiable information. When they’re like, Well, I think a lot of agency owners get concerned that the client’s then going to have a hundred questions all around law. Well, the beautiful thing about a web agency owner, and I think any agency owner knows this, is like, know when you’re You’re an expert in something and know when you’re not and be able to communicate, Hey, I’m just letting you know you need one, Mr. Or Mrs. Client. If you have any deeper questions, I suggest you talk to someone at Termageddon or something like that. We’d be happy to field those questions because we know it much more. We’re experts in that. That’s the thing I always suggest to web agency owners. Don’t be afraid to discuss that they need it just because they’re collecting personally identifiable information.
Hans:
Then just have a partner in place that you can refer them to to field any deeper questions that client may have. It’s okay to say, Hey, I’m a web designer, not a lawyer. That makes sense. Yeah.
Lee:
No, that’s really good. I remember having a look around. You ask the questions, I fill it in, et cetera. For example, it was asking me, Am I a person or a company and all that stuff, and I can select locations and then build my way through it. I guess, do I have e-commerce? Do I not? And then you guys can automatically build that policy for us as well.
Hans:
Correct. Yep, that’s exactly how it works.
Lee:
Awesome. With regards to This has been fascinating me ever since. So obviously you are a US-based company, and you mentioned that you have people using it all around the world. How does that work with regards to the policies and the legal language? So for example, I might be a legal company registered here in the UK as opposed to in any part of the States. How do you work with those?
Hans:
I’ll let Donata feel this, but I just want to note that we never anticipated to be growing at the rate that we are. We are getting a lot of registrations out of the UK, out of South Africa, and out of Australia. And although our policies are, for example, GDPR compliant, we are not UK compatible just yet. So we plan to push that update within the next in the next couple of months. And as an agency partner, I would still invite you to register on Termageddon to get that free access. And then we’ll just send you a reminder when we officially launch. But you had to. Yeah.
Donata:
So I think Cons is just said what I was going to say. We are GDPR compliant, but we do need to do some updates for the UK. So, yeah, I’m hoping that these are going to come as soon as we can.
Lee:
That’s awesome. It’s a great tool. And you guys, I remember chatting with you, Hans, as well, saying that you’ll be keeping these up to date and compliant. So as things change, it’s my clients who are paying term again on for their subscription, ensuring that their terms are up to date, etc. So I’m not having to do the research and worry. And I like Donata, how you mentioned that this is something that people also build into their care plans as well. So perhaps it’s a level up. If you also want to have your legal terms, etc. All covered on your website, then this is something that we can also include for you. I’m really intrigued, actually. So Hans, you are agency background. I don’t think you’re a developer yourself. You were the guy who ran the agency. Is that right?
Hans:
Yeah. I was building many, many WordPress websites for several years. But as time went on, my team just was simply better than me in all of it. As time went on, I found myself doing less and less and less. That’s actually another major reason why I decided to sell the business. I was like, You know what? The company’s in a place where it’s not relying on me, a Hansel’s solution. That’s a to our event that we were just at.
Lee:
We need to do a whole separate podcast on that as well, which I’m totally bringing you back in for. But also, Donata, I assume you’re not a developer either. How do two people go from, I’m a developer, I used to own an agency, let’s build something. Can you give us maybe a quick description on how you got this off the ground and how you built this complex system? Because I know there are people that listen to the show all the time. They have ideas, but they feel held back because of the technology or the amount of time that it might take to build something like this.
Hans:
I feel bad. The development team, I don’t have an answer that’s going to help that crowd, unfortunately. The company that bought my company, the web agency that bought my former web agency, We gave them the term again in business. They’re the ones managing the app and whatnot. Prior to that, Buildys built the app.
Lee:
Okay. Well, you’ve got an agency that you’re paying and they’re doing the build and then you guys are managing the marketing marketing and the development, et cetera. Exactly.
Hans:
Yeah.
Lee:
Okay. Well, that can still work for other people as well if they can get funding, et cetera. But that also gives me a little bit of assurance as well then that there is a team behind the software and the hardware as opposed to you guys trying to stretch yourselves over everything as well. So Donata is focused on legal, you are focused on marketing, and then you have an extra team. I suppose that’s a lesson we can all draw from that as well, because very often people will try and stretch themselves being the support team, being the developers, being the marketing team, and also delivering the product. And it can be a very stressful life.
Hans:
Staying in your lane is something we always try to do.
Lee:
I love that. That’s another thing you said on stage as well, staying in your lane.
Hans:
Big fan of that one.
Lee:
You’ve got a lot I have one-liners.
Hans:
There are seven years of running a web agency, losing seven inches of hairline and gaining 40 pounds. I’ve learned a couple of one-liners.
Lee:
I was going to say, I think I lost seven inches of hairline and then gained seven inches of waistline, which is cool. Now, I do have a couple of questions on privacy policies. I mean, very often I’ll have a client who grabs a privacy policy or a privacy policy, however you pronounce it, and they’ll go through maybe one of these templates, et cetera, and they’ll go through and edit a few things and hopefully not leave two duplicate terms that say opposite things, et cetera. What advice, what What conversations do you think we should be having with our clients to encourage them to either go straight for a lawyer to give them a full on privacy policy, or even, if they don’t have the budget for that, come over to someone like you guys. They’ve got three choices. They’ve got, I can download this template for $15 and edit it, or I’ve got a bit of budget, I can spend £1,000 over here on a lawyer, so I’ll know it’s specific to my business, or I’ve got Terming it down as well over here as another option. So what conversations, what questions, what encouragement should I be giving my client to probably er away from a template and go at least for a lawyer or for a term again on style solution?
Donata:
Yeah. So it all just depends on their budget and the type of business that they’re in, right? A lot of times when you’re trying to pull a template of anything, I mean, it’s like going to store with a blindfold on, picking out a pair of jeans, any pair of jeans, and then trying them on. 90 % of the time, it’s not going to fit. You have a lot of people who are using either templates or they’re taking something from their competitors. What I would say is unless you’re a lawyer, I probably wouldn’t do that because there’s so many specific things that need to be written in a very specific way for you to get what you need. I mean, we’ve all heard the cases of somebody leaving out a semicolon and they lost $3 million. You really don’t want to be beating yourself up over And you might not know exactly what to change. And also that template might be completely out of date. It might not have all the most up to date laws on it. So for example, it might not even have GDPR on it if you need GDPR compliance, which is a big issue.
Donata:
And templates don’t update either. So you’re then responsible for keeping track of all these laws, keeping track of all the cases, and then understanding how to update your when those laws pass, which is going to take a lot of your time. And that’s just really not worth your time. If you’re a developer, if you’re a designer, if you’re really in any business apart from being a lawyer, it’s not going to be worth your time. I mean, you could be doing sales, you could be talking to your clients, you could be talking to your staff, you could be improving your business. And instead, you’re going to use that time to read 50,000 laws and then figure out what they say. Probably not worth it. In terms of speaking to an an attorney, it is pricey, I would say. I mean, it depends on what area you’re in, but it can get pricey. When you get a lawyer, you should have one if you’re doing very specific things on your website. So for example, if you’re in financial services, let’s say you’re a financial consultant, or your website collects information from children under the age of 13, or you need compliance with HIPAA, which is a health law in the United States, which governs what you do with health information.
Donata:
I would say at those points, you should get an attorney because those are very, very specific laws that you have to abide by, and they’re very niche in your particular industry. So for those things, I would say I would get an attorney because the costs of non-compliance are really high. You’re in a niche. You’re not like most people. I would get a lawyer. In terms of When you would use a generator, whether that’s us or any of our competitors, I think a generator would work for probably 85 to 90% of businesses out there. If you have a blog, if you have an e-commerce store, if you just have your regular business on your website that you’re showcasing, I would probably use a generator there, but making sure that the generator automatically updates things and that it’s also tailored to your business as well. Where you can answer questions and then it customises the policy for you.
Lee:
That’s really helpful. I think for that answer, it makes me think of, say, for example, here in the UK, we have the Housing Associations and we also have GDPR. Housing Associations actually have lots of very personal information on people, etc. So that could even be health records as well as financial records and all sorts of other things. And I also think they’ve got an association body that they have to follow certain things for compliance. So at that point, I know that I would be pushing back on them saying, You need to make sure that you have got a lawyer involved to get very specific terms and conditions and policies, et cetera, set up for this website. We can’t go live without it because you’re putting yourself at risk. That’s where I would not be recommending, like you said, a built for you solution on the flip side. There are realtors, there are people with basic e-commerce websites that we’re building all the time that we could quite simply put on over to a service like Termageddon, which saves them some time and money and also we’re adding value there, which is phenomenal. I do have a cheeky question, though, because this comes up a lot, and I don’t know the answer all the time.
Lee:
Obviously, we’ve got our privacy policy. Everyone’s been freaking out for the last year about GDPR. No one’s got sued yet that we’re aware of, although I’m sure there’s some cases going on that we don’t know about. But very often they’ll be saying, Where do I put my privacy policy? And I don’t know where to tell them because when I look through the documentation, it’s saying that it needs to be visible, but it doesn’t necessarily say what visible means. I could have it just as a link at the bottom of the footer and I can say, Well, it’s assumed because it’s usually there. But I don’t know how to answer that.
Donata:
Yeah. So first, a lot of people have actually been sued for GDPR non-compliance, and fines have already been issued.
Lee:
I read the wrong news.
Donata:
Yeah, I can send you some links later. But yeah, that’s definitely been happening a lot. Oh, scary. Yeah, in terms of display. So generally, it should be at the bottom of the footer, and it needs to be in text that’s a different colour from the text surrounding it, and needs to be in a different size and font of the text surrounding it, and it needs to be visible, which means that if your footer is grey and your text for your privacy policy link is slightly darker grey, that’s not going to work. That’s interesting. But if your background is white and the font is black, then that would work. But with GDPR, you also need to make sure that you’re obtaining consent for every time that you’re collecting information. So for example, Let’s say you have a contact form at the bottom of the contact form. Before you click Submit, there should be a checkbox. The checkbox should say, I agree to provide this information to X business name. I also agree to their privacy policy, and they had to check the box in order to proceed in submitting the form.
Lee:
I have a cool question. We’re using CAST right now, and I know they’re a US-based company, so then I have to worry about GDPR compliance. But at the bottom of this, and if I remember, I’ll put a screenshot in the show notes, but if we look down at the bottom, you can see the copyright debacle ink, and you’ve got terms, privacy policy, licences, et cetera. I’m thinking that that would therefore be non compliant by the way you’ve described it, because their text links is the same colour as all of the links in the footer. It’s very small, et cetera. Would that be a non-compliant example?
Donata:
Sorry, cast, but yeah.
Lee:
Like I said, it’s okay. They’re not in the UK, and I know GDPR will eventually hit a lot of more people, but I was just interested. Carina, sorry.
Donata:
Actually, that’s not the case either. Just because you’re located in the US does not mean that GDPR does not apply to you.
Lee:
So I’ve been feeding the myth there.
Donata:
It’s very confusing.
Lee:
Please put me right.
Donata:
Yeah, right. It’s very confusing as to who GDPR applies to. But the most important thing to remember is just because you’re in the US, just because you’re in Australia, does not mean that GDPR does not apply to you. It’s all about the type of business that you do, the type of marketing that you do, the type of people that visit your website. So I would say just because you’re in the US does not mean that you’re in the clear.
Hans:
And Why that is is because GDPR is out to protect the citizens of Europe. And the citizens visit more websites than just websites in Europe. They visit websites in America and all over the world for that matter. So because the laws are built to protect the citizens, well, then in theory, any business really that has visitors and data being collected from citizens of Europe are liable to be sued for not properly following GDPR compliance. Wow.
Lee:
That’s nuts.
Hans:
For the record, though, and Kurt, do not correct me me wrong, but for the record, there is yet to be an American business sued because of a lack of GDPR compliance, but we’re waiting for-Google, Facebook.
Donata:
Oh, yeah.
Hans:
Yeah, those are some big ones. But smaller than Google and Facebook.
Lee:
I’m just loving how Donata is putting us right, mate. I’m glad I’m not the only one getting it wrong.
Donata:
I mean, the thing, too, is it’s not necessarily even on the size of your business. It’s about people complaining about it as well. So the data protection authorities in Europe, while they might take a proactive stance on investigating companies like Google and Facebook, if they’re getting complaints about smaller companies, they’re going to investigate those, too. I know there’s a smaller hospital that recently got sued for GDPR compliance. So it really depends on not just how much time the enforcers have. It’s also about how many complaints there are against you and things like that from consumers. Wow.
Lee:
Okay. Well, that’s really helpful to know as well. And again, Looking at your blog, reading blog post just the other day, you were talking about data protection officers, et cetera, which is all the stuff that I was reading with regards to GDPR compliance as well, which is quite helpful. So I guess you guys are going to be deep diving into that further over the next few months because it’s a biggie.
Donata:
Yeah, absolutely.
Lee:
Well, that’s really helpful. Well, we’re coming into land now. We’re coming to the end of our conversation. This has been really helpful for several reasons. Number one, I love finding out how you two met. Number two, I love finding out how the business started and why you started it. And I’m obviously encouraged that I can grab some free terms and conditions for my own business as well. Hey, who doesn’t like free? And also you’ll pay me to recommend and to sell you in, sorry, to my clients where they’ll add value in there as well, which is awesome as well. But I’m very grateful as of how you’ve been able to take the scales off my eyes a little bit and make me realise that I’ve been making some big badass assumptions that I probably shouldn’t have been making and should probably now go and review, A, my terms, B, where I’m positioning things, and also have these conversations with my clients because I feel like it’s my responsibility to help clients do diligence. I don’t want them to, in the future, be sued and then feel, even though they can’t necessarily sue me, they’ll feel bad.
Lee:
And they’ll not like me because I didn’t look after them as it were. So I feel like I want to go through all the websites we’ve ever built and just take a look through them.
Hans:
We have programmes for that where we incentivize agencies to do that, for the record. You can always reach out to hansetermageddon. Com to discuss.
Lee:
But wait, there’s more.
Hans:
Yeah, right. See what you mean about the sales guy.
Lee:
Yeah, right.
Donata:
It’s like a Shamwau commercial.
Lee:
You buy today, only three low payments. Sorry, Carina. Yeah, right. I’m messing with.
Hans:
But the other thing I want to know, there’s There’s nothing wrong with not knowing this stuff in and out. You were just saying, Oh, man, I just got schooled. Well, that’s because we’re not technical legal people. This information is being shared for the first time ever. Five years from now, I’ll guarantee that we’ll look at times like this and be like, Man, remember when companies used to just take customer data and do whatever they want with it? They could just store it forever?
Lee:
I feel like that’s never going to be a conversation, mate. Oh, no, no.
Hans:
I think in a few years, people will be like, Man, back in the day, companies They just used to basically steal customer data and just do what they want with it. That’s changing. As a human being, I think that’s a good thing. I think human beings deserve a right to their privacy. A hundred %. As a business owner, I mean, that sucks. I want that data.
Donata:
But what’s important to remember is that there’s a way to do things where you respect your customers’ privacy and you do business as well. So there’s a way to get it all done. You just got to think through it and then got to put some time into it.
Lee:
No, absolutely agreed. And I mean, there’s a lot of information out there as well, folks. If you are TD up a complaint, for example, for us UK folks, then check out the ICO website. There’s an awful lot of really, really good helpful information on there as well, as well as the Termageddon blog. Folks, you can find more information about Termageddon over on termageddon.com. That’s term, that says G-E- D-D-O-N. But like I said, just go to the show notes. There’s a big fat healthy link in there and you can just click on that. Don’t forget to check out the About page because it’s fun. And also some of the blog posts as well on GDPR compliance. If you’re in the UK or if you’re in California or Massachusetts, there’s a couple of blogs you should probably be reading. One with a hen on it. Is that a hen? A chicken? Yeah. Going to space? Yeah. And a cat on what I think is Mars. If you’re in either of those states, you should probably go ahead and check out those two blog posts as well. But guys, what are the best ways to connect with you?
Lee:
And then we shall say goodbye.
Hans:
I would say reach out to hans@, or donata@termageddon. Hans is HANS. And snake. And then Termageddon.
Donata:
Nancy snake. That’s the worst selling.
Lee:
Really?
Hans:
I’ve been doing that all my life.
Donata:
Nancy snake.
Lee:
Nancy snake. Hotel Alpha, November, Sierra. There you go.
Hans:
That’s way better.
Donata:
Nancy snake. All right. Or [email protected].
Hans:
D is in what?
Lee:
Delta, Oscar, November, Alpha, Tango, Alpha. There you go.
Donata:
He’s got the military spelling.
Hans:
That’s really good.
Lee:
I used to work in security, mate.
Hans:
Nice. Termageddon is term, age, D-D-O-N.
Lee:
Or Tango. Forgotten. I went blank. Tango. What is it? What is E?
Hans:
L-o-n. Elephant.
Lee:
Is it?
Hans:
It’s not Elephant. Echo.
Lee:
Echo. Yeah, Tango, Echo, Romeo. Oh, I’m going blank now.
Hans:
Mars.
Lee:
No, it’s not. It’s something else. I love it when-Mambo number 5. Mambo number 5. Someone was like, It’s L as in Lee, E as in Lee, and E as in Lee. Anyway. All right, folks. Well, it’s been awesome chatting with you. Thank you very much. I appreciate being schooled, but also being comforted in the fact that I do need to stay my own lane and where I can use the resources that are available to me, I can do. If anyone wants to find out more information, they can go to termageddon.com. That’s a really good way of doing it. Check the show notes and folks have a wonderful day.Thank.
Donata:
You for having us.Thank you.
Lee:
Cheerio. That wraps up today’s show. If you have any questions for the guys over at Termageddon, be sure to check out the show notes for a link to their website. If you are not part of our free Facebook group, head on over to agencytrailblazer.com/group and hang out with some crazy cool agency owners, WordPress experts, designers, developers, all sorts of wonderful people. So go hang out with us in there. If you are not part of our premium community, be sure to check out details over on agencytrailblazer.com, and you could be on a call with us this week all about niching your agency. If we don’t see you in any of the communities, we will see you in the next episode..
