Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.
Verbatim text
Lee Matthew Jackson
Welcome to the WP Innovator Podcast, the podcast for web designers and design agencies exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now, your host, Lee Jackson. Hi and welcome to episode 45 of the WP Innovator Podcast. This is your host, Lee. This podcast is brilliant. Jos just laid it all out laid it all out, I’m emotional already, laid it all out and really helped me see the light. So this is quite a vulnerable episode for me because I recognise a whole load of things that I’ve been doing wrong with some of my Facebook marketing and I really hope that you guys find value out of this as well. And hey, don’t laugh at me too much because, you know, when you’re doing a podcast and you’re putting yourself out there and people consider you might be the expert, well, no, I know some stuff, but I certainly don’t know everything. So this is definitely one of those podcasts where I learn a hell of a lot, and I really hope you guys find value in it too. If you are a great Facebook marketer, please do get on in the WP Innovator group and share your thoughts, share information.
Lee Matthew Jackson
It’s leejaxondev.com/group. You’ll be able to get in there. And also everybody, please go to leejaxondev.com and click on the Dare You link because in there We’re running a whole series of WordPress tips to try before you die throughout October because we are currently on October 3rd. So you will find the third instalment on there right now. So without further ado, on with the show. Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh-buh!
Lee Matthew Jackson
Hello, this is Lee in the porter cabin. Yes, we are in a porter cabin here in England, and I’m talking to a guy in the future. Jos Aguiar. Jos, how are you doing over there in the future?
Jos Aguiar
Dude, I am loving it. The world is still spinning and I’m having fun. Dude, this is— I’m really excited to be speaking to you.
Lee Matthew Jackson
That’s amazing. Do we have hoverboards yet, or is that still work in progress?
Jos Aguiar
Um, it’s work in progress. I’ve spoken to Obama, like he’s back in time. We’re kind of flipping back and forth, but really it’s something we’re working on. You want to get to you guys, and dude, it’s brilliant. The future is an amazing place.
Lee Matthew Jackson
I can’t wait. Uh, so we’ll, we’ll should be caught you up in about 8 or 9 hours, I think. So, uh, thanks mate for staying up late. I believe you’re kind of injecting coffee and all sorts of stuff to stay awake. So we really appreciate that.
Jos Aguiar
That’s it, man.
Lee Matthew Jackson
That’s, that’s amazing.
Jos Aguiar
That’s the blood type.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Well, I’m going to do the This Is Your Life spiel. Jos. Hey. All right. Well, Jos, he’s an Aussie sales funnel and Facebook ad man making waves on the international scene. That sounds good. That’s good, that is. And as a trusted advisor to consultants and business owners around the world, Jos builds sales funnels for numerous 6-, 7-, and 8-figure businesses. But that’s just a short paragraph, mate. How about you introduce yourself, say hi to everyone, and tell us a bit more about yourself?
Jos Aguiar
Well, hello everyone. Um, a little bit about myself. So I guess like many people, I’m just a— as great as the intro sounds, I’m just a guy. Like, I think one of the things that people get confused about in the marketing space is The information that I have is freely available to anyone, and what differentiates someone who’s really good at doing business, really good at marketing, is just putting in the work. Uh, we all know about the 6 or 7-year curve it takes to really understand your market, and just putting in that work is what makes the difference for everyone.
Lee Matthew Jackson
And tell us a bit more about the, the business that you’re running as well, Jos.
Jos Aguiar
Cool. So what I run is a sales funnel agency, which we handle online sales processes. So taking someone who’s a cold prospect or lead through the sales journey into becoming a customer for either myself or my clients. And the main traffic source I work with is Facebook advertising. So Facebook being such a huge source of information about people, we’re able to get really targeted with our advertising. So I know that if I want to reach a particular type of person who’s interested in a very particular subject, I can use Facebook to communicate with that person, speak to them in the language that gets them interested in the point of the sales journey that they’re at right now. And then via other communication, whether that be landing pages or email communications or even a phone call, I can take them on the journey to becoming a customer. That’s what I, love about the power of the internet and the information that’s available to us right now.
Lee Matthew Jackson
It’s amazing, isn’t it? You can, you can get people like you’ve essentially never met, get connected with them due to Facebook algorithms, and then take them down a journey which could lead into a sale, a relationship, etc. And I’ve got to admit, mate, that feels like rocket science to me. I can describe that, but how the hell did you get into that and learn all this? Because this— you make it sound very easy, but I know I’ve tried some of this sort of thing, and I gave up on Facebook ads quite a while back. So tell me why I shouldn’t give in on Facebook ads and kind of tell me how you’ve gotten into it and how you’ve got to the level you’re at, you know, working with 6, 7, 8-figure businesses, because that’s huge.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah, I guess one of the misconceptions that people have from online marketing is they try to overcomplicate it. All online marketing is, is literally taking your one-on-one communications and putting it online in a way that can be leveraged to go from one-on-one to one-to-many. So instead of me just going finding people in the phone book, finding out who’s the right person and speaking to them on an individual basis. We’re now able to have an idea of who are our ideal customers and just speak to them directly via Facebook and then take them through that process. So we don’t have to be, your time is more leveraged basically. What that means is like as a web developer, say if you’re working, if you have a really specific offer for say personal trainers, you can use Facebook to speak directly to personal trainers and tell them why they need a website first. So you automatically become their trusted source, then offer that you actually solve their problem for them. That’s a huge, huge amount of information they’re giving about themselves, it allows you to target them directly. Again, it comes down to the offer. That’s everything, comes down to that one offer that you’re speaking to people and allowing them to see what you have available to help them.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Sorry, mate, when you say speaking to people though, is this like you are actually going on Facebook, finding those people and chatting to them, or, you know, through forums and groups, or are you talking about using Facebook ads to attract their attention?
Jos Aguiar
Facebook advertising.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Okay, so Yeah, carry on.
Jos Aguiar
Taking that example from personal trainers, we’d send an ad out to face people who’ve identified themselves as personal trainers or having studied at fitness centres or working at gyms with something that’s relevant. So how to find out if your website— how to create a website that gets you new personal training clients. If you’re a personal trainer, you’re browsing through Facebook, you’re socialising with your friends, if that comes across your feed, you’re going to click on it to find out, is my website converting? Do I have the right website? So they click on that, you then take them to an article or something, and at the end of that article it’ll have something like an offer to actually speak to you. Yeah, so that’s an example of a very simple funnel that you can use.
Lee Matthew Jackson
So the idea isn’t that you’re creating an ad saying, hey, great special offer on a website, you know, $599.95 or whatever for a website for fitness coaches or whatever. It’s actually, you’re, you’re actually attracting people with, here’s, here’s a, here’s an article about a problem, you know, why are you not converting or why you’re not getting this, etc. And then you’re offering right at the very end of that free valuable content, the ability for people to find out more about you or connect with you in some way.
Jos Aguiar
Exactly. No one really likes to be sold to, but they do like to be communicated to. So you need to speak to them where they’re at currently. So they’re not in the frame of mind to say, hey, I want to buy a website today. It might be like one or two people like that. But if they are a PT, they’re— they are experiencing issues with getting new clients. They’re— they wonder if what— if their current website sucks. They probably know it does. Or they have no website at all. So if you’re putting that question in front of them and saying like, well, here’s how you can get a website that will work for you, you’re automatically becoming the expert in their mind and the next step is saying, look, hey, do you want me to help you? It’s just following a logical conversation. So same as if you’re talking to a personal trainer in person. So you don’t go and say, hey, here’s a $600 website. It’s no, are you nuts? I only just met you, why would I trust you? Speak to them like, speak to them like a normal human being. Give them some information first, what they should be looking for, so they can see you as someone who has the solution to their problems.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, it’s not love at first sight, is it? You can’t go with them and say, hey guys, £600 for a website, I’ll sort you out, and they’re like, what? I love that line as well that you just said, no one likes to be sold to but communicated to. That’s a long podcast title, but I want to try and squeeze that in, mate. Love it, man, that’s amazing.
Jos Aguiar
So I very much liken the marketing to dating. You don’t go for the propose on the first date because the girl’s going to think you’re a weirdo. You need to woo them and make sure that they are attracted to you as well, and then you can ask them for the proposal. And by that stage, they’re going to say yes. It’s not even a question of price anymore, it’s a question of, can I afford you?
Lee Matthew Jackson
Jos is Dr. Love.
Jos Aguiar
Dr. Love in the house.
Lee Matthew Jackson
We’re getting some love advice, guys. So if you thought that proposing on the first date was a good idea, you heard it here first. Not a good idea. I was going to say, well, that’s what I’ve been doing wrong all this time, damn it. But I’m actually married, so I’m good.
Jos Aguiar
New episode, man. Speed dating with Lee Jackson.
Lee Matthew Jackson
That’s speed marriage, isn’t it? Hi, will you marry me?
Jos Aguiar
Um, no. Yeah, you seem like a really nice guy. You create websites as well? Cool.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah. Marriage and free website. No, I mean, I joke, joking aside, but that is a really good illustration that you put in there as well. You know, you don’t expect to be hitched on the first date. It’s something that takes time, doesn’t it? And you’re communicating with each other, you’re getting to know each other, are the signals coming both directions, etc. And then over time, you know, you, you go deeper in that relationship and invest in each other, or you get married. Cool, look at that, that was a great segue, that worked really well. There you go, it’s exactly what happens.
Jos Aguiar
I’m not saying this has to be a long, arduous process, it just needs to be a logical sequence of thoughts. So again, you’re just connecting the dots to here they are right now, I’m a PT, okay, so as a PT are these things important to you? Yes. Okay, here’s what you should be doing. Would you like help with that to implement that? Yes, I would. Let’s schedule a call, speak to each other. Okay, this is how it works. Are you ready to go ahead? Yes, I am. It’s a logical sequence of events. That’s what a sales funnel is.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah. And with regards to what you do then, do you— are you designing those sales funnels for your clients then? So you’re talking with your clients, finding out what services or what things they can do to help and help people with, and then you are mapping out those funnels, those different conversations or those stepping stones on behalf of your clients.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So we’ll do it either through a website, through a series of webpages and email communications. We’ll map out what the processes are and where people might fall off on that journey. So some people might land on the web, on the webpage, they might get through to what’s called a consultation page.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Mm-hmm.
Jos Aguiar
But for some reason they’re not ready at that stage. What we do for those people is generally follow them up with either retargeting or an email sequence. So they’ve already opted into whatever we’ve we’ve offered to them, they weren’t quite ready to make that commitment to speak to us on the phone or to make the purchase. So we offer them the opportunity again via email or follow them up. As long as you’re the person that’s top of mind for them, they may not be ready right now, but if you can stay in communication, if you can stay the expert in their mind, they’re going to come to you at some point.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, that’s good stuff. I like the idea with the retargeting as well. You’re kind of keeping in people’s radar as well. Although some companies do retarget me a lot and I don’t necessarily want to see them anymore, and they still keep appearing in my face. So I’m mean and I click on the links. Cost them a penny, I think, to do that, so I’m like, yeah! I mean, I did ask earlier, I’m not sure if you’ve answered this question fully, because I still don’t think I understand how did you get from being just the love doctor to becoming just the guy who is an expert in sales funnels. How have you taught yourself that process? Because I imagine there’s a whole load of people who are like, we’ve all heard of sales funnels, but how did you get started with this? Was this, was it for your own business?
Jos Aguiar
It definitely was for my own business, which at the time wasn’t even in websites. So I was working face-to-face in education sales. I then got recruited by another company that just saw that I was brilliant at that. But it was at the point where you can only get so much when you’re, so much leads and so many qualified leads when you’re doing face-to-face and it’s very time consuming. So I turned to internet just as a test and from my own results using Facebook ads to get leads for education, which get education sales, selling diplomas and business courses for people in Australia. From there, people started noticing like, you’re getting a lot of leads, how do you do that? That snowballed into starting an agency. That’s how my introduction to online marketing started, then just finding mentors and other people within the marketing space to just improve my own knowledge.
Lee Matthew Jackson
And when you say mentors, is that people who are out there, is that mentors that you kind of directly communicated with, or do you mean people you followed online, you’ve learned from them as well online?
Jos Aguiar
People I’ve followed online, people I’ve stalked, actually asked them for coffee.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, there’s no shame in that, by the way. 4-Hour Workweek, I’m pretty sure he recommends you reach out to people. That’s a good thing.
Jos Aguiar
Exactly. I think coming from a sales background, I don’t have that shyness. Let’s just talk to someone. It’s there. Everyone, especially successful people, are more than happy to share their wisdom with anyone, with you, as long as you do it tactfully and make sure you’re bringing value into their life. They’re more than happy to help you. They want to see other people succeed.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Exactly. That’s so true. How long have you been running your agency now?
Jos Aguiar
About 4 years now. Since, uh, 4 years is probably where I’ve been online space. Um, yeah, we’ve shifted from being a creative agency, so we were doing websites originally and a bit of marketing, to really focusing on sales funnels and Facebook ads in the last year now.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah. And, and what was the pivot? So you, you’ve been building sites. What was that, oh crap, we need to be going in this sales funnel direction and specialising just in that? Because that’s quite a scary leap if you’re, if you’re doing websites and then you’re, you’re thinking to yourself, I’m only now going to the sales funnel thing? Some companies are a bit scared of being seen as only doing one thing rather than trying to do all things. What kind of, what was the pivot?
Jos Aguiar
It’s kind of realisation that people want specialists. They want someone who knows what they’re doing and really focuses in on that. So you can be jack of all trades, but your work is going to be devalued by doing that. But if you allow people to find a box for you and really see you as the expert at doing that, your value comes that much greater. Yes, even for website owners, people who are building websites, if you are the person for that industry, your, your cost per website can be a lot higher than people who are just doing everything. It’s like you don’t, don’t go to the brain surgeon— you don’t go to the GP to— for brain surgery. I did. Yeah, that could explain.
Lee Matthew Jackson
I’m joking, man. No, I’m joking. It’s very true though, uh, what you’re saying, because for me, you know, we, we build WordPress websites, as, as you probably know. I think I probably mentioned that every episode. Um, but we just specifically build WordPress themes for design agencies. So we are able to charge a much higher premium than the same agency would get probably through Upwork. But the people on Upwork that they’re dealing with will be generalists, so they will be doing PHP, all sorts of different types of platforms, Joomla, Drupal, etc. There’s no specialism. Therefore, things actually do tend to take longer and actually end up probably being a little bit more expensive because, you know, that person doesn’t necessarily have the background knowledge or the specialism that a company like us who have kind of, you know, pinned our credentials to the wall and said, this is all we do. You know, we’ve got that experience, therefore it’s, it’s a safer bet to go with someone like us. Like yourself, you know, you have, you know, pinned it to the wall, said, this is what we do, we are the sales funnel guys. And, you know, people are going to be attracted to you and come to you because you, you are dealing with this on a daily basis, you’re learning about it on a daily basis, whereas I’m probably only reading up on it every now and again on a blog.
Lee Matthew Jackson
You’re probably downloading that information on a daily basis, you know, what’s changing with Facebook, what’s changing on Facebook ads, what’s the latest trends, etc. Speaking of trends, you know, have you had any success when Instagram kind of got connected in with Facebook?
Jos Aguiar
Honestly, I haven’t used Instagram a great deal, but coming, coming back to same principle of marketing, you need to understand where your market is. So if your market is using Instagram, whether your demographic is on there, definitely go use it and work out what’s going to work for you. And again, see what kind of mind frame they’re at when they’re using Instagram. Facebook’s very much social platforms. We need to, I guess, integrate with what people are thinking there, whereas if you’re going directly to their emails, you’ve got a different way you can communicate with people. In the past, I’ve done a lot of email direct response for supplement companies, which is a great deal of fun, but the communications we’d have with them via email compared to what we do on Facebook is a totally different style of communication because they’ve already had that pre-framing. They’re already within a specific list, and they know, they know that you— they’re expecting you to communicate them with a sales message.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Have you ever considered looking into things like Twitter as well? So Twitter paid ads to generate the same sorts of funnels— sorry, you know, track the same sorts of audiences, or LinkedIn, or have you just found the most success with Facebook?
Jos Aguiar
Yeah, I found the most success personally with Facebook. I’ve got friends who specialise in Twitter, but the difference between Twitter and Facebook is the amount of data we can collect. People are a lot more willing to give their information on Facebook, so I can tell whether you’re a dad, what kind of interests you have, whether you’re left-wing, right-wing. I pretty much know your life storey before I even speak to you on Facebook, whereas Twitter, it’s a lot harder to— yeah, it’s the amount of information points that Facebook has is incredible. Like, for example, if you know that people within your market who are more affluent generally have iPhones, I can specifically target people with my ads to only appear on people who put iPhones and only people who like certain business magazines.
Lee Matthew Jackson
That’s actually really quite clever.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson
So I didn’t know that, by the way. That, that’s just kind of blown my mind about, you know, I’m just thinking right now that, you know, I want to get hold of agency owners. So this is design agency owners in America, and I was thinking, how do I know their turnover? I don’t necessarily know that. But wait, if I’m finding these design agency owners that are reading particular types of magazines and using nice expensive phones, they’re probably more likely going to be the guys I want to reach.
Jos Aguiar
Definitely one thing is you look at all the other psychographics for them. So what conferences do they attend, what kind of software they use. One thing I found amazing is using things like looking into the software people use. Like people who are just starting out in business generally use things like MailChimp, etc., whereas your more enterprise clients are generally going to be using Infusionsoft, Oracle, those higher-end CRMs. Like we’ve done campaigns for using those as our interest sets. We’d get people who literally run the divisions of casinos opting in, and we’re like, we’re sitting in the back there like, okay, this person looks interesting, I’ll pull up his information. Oh shit, he owns a Fortune 500 company.
Lee Matthew Jackson
That’s incredible.
Jos Aguiar
Again, that just comes down to knowing who you wanted to speak to before you start running your Facebook ads. Then you obviously test.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Well, I, I’ve always thought though that it’s— I’ve looked at Facebook ads myself, and I think this is probably where I’ve gone wrong then, because what you’ve said It’s given me an aha moment here. You know, I, I know who I’m trying to target, but I’ve struggled to understand how, how to target that person through Facebook because I’ve run Facebook ad campaigns myself, but it’s always been to so many people. You know, no matter how I try, and if I try and narrow it down too far, it’s too little people, and if I generalise too much, you know, there’s too many people. But I’ve not been— I’ve not even been thinking of, you know, what software do they use, what devices are there on, etc. And that’s a massively cool pearl of wisdom that I totally stealing from you right now. That’s wicked.
Jos Aguiar
Whenever you’re doing any sort of marketing, you should look at it as speaking to one person. It’s one-on-one communication, but because there’s a lot of people that fit that profile. So if you’re gonna dig into what you’re saying with the agency owners, where, where do you find the agency owners congregate? Do they read certain magazines? Do they use certain softwares? Do they generally use certain types of computers? How else can you build a profile around them? And then what languages— what is— what are their biggest issues right now? What are they looking to solve? What is the magic bullet that they just go, I need that, I need to speak to Sky like right now?
Lee Matthew Jackson
I’m just silent in awe, that’s all, mate. That’s right. I just— when people— when you say this, it’s like so free, it seems so freaking obvious, but I’ve never seen it this way before. Before, and probably other people are listening and laughing at me, but I’ve always understood the concept of an avatar, but I’ve always wondered why people go into so much detail. But what you’ve just said there, speaking to one person, actually, if you are speaking to one person, there’s going to be several of that one person who all have the exact same needs or all very similar. So you’re actually speaking to many people through speaking to that one person, but finding out what their needs are. I can think of several problems I could solve for the one person, and I, I know exactly what type of blooming bag he’ll have as well, you know, with a phrase laptop bag and all that sort of stuff.
Jos Aguiar
If I think about it in that sort of detail, who else are they following? Like, are there any other gurus in the space that they wouldn’t actually be following? That just— if you can target their audience, that’s your perfect audience right there.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, so I’ve been going way too high level. That, that is definitely my problem then. So I’ve been going way too high level, focusing on things like location and the type of business they work in. Rather than the person.
Jos Aguiar
Exactly.
Lee Matthew Jackson
That’s speaking to one person. That’s another great line, mate. You’re dropping bombs. Value bombs, I’ll add. Sorry.
Jos Aguiar
It’s all good. Cool, man.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, well, that’s that. Well, here’s two then. So, uh, people don’t like to be sold to, they like to be communicated to. That’s a great one. And then, you know, you’re— when you’re doing the targeting, you’re speaking to one person, but that one person has shared needs with— yeah, you know, that one person is multiple people really, but it’s, it’s trying to get yourself into the mindset of that person rather than what I’ve been doing all this time, idiot, uh, me, and, uh, generalising and trying to, trying to catch all these different people that I think I’m targeting through the higher level things.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah, so a good explanation of how we do campaigns: you really need to put the research into understanding who you, who your audience is, what their frustrations are, what the market looks like, and what their needs are. Like, say if I had, if I had 4 weeks to put out a campaign, 80% of my time would be spent on research. Like, that’s my 80/20 there. 80% researching, understanding. The rest of the time I’d build out the actual campaign, I’d send traffic to it. That’s a very minute aspect of what we do, but the main, I guess, time and where you should be spending your focus is understanding who your market is. If you understand who your market is, understand what, what they need, your campaign’s more, more than likely to succeed.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Well, there’s another problem you’ve highlighted again in my own strategy. I actually just did the campaigns with some very basic ideas in my mind, so I’ve seen the light, brother.
Jos Aguiar
No worries, man.
Lee Matthew Jackson
This is a very vulnerable and open interview for me. I’m like, oh crap, I’ve not been doing that right. Ah crap, oh look at that. Oh, writing copious notes even though I can listen back to this.
Jos Aguiar
So I guess what is it the other people really need to know? What is it that you struggle with when you have been creating your own marketing campaigns?
Lee Matthew Jackson
Well, for— I know for a lot of people that I’ve been working with, including myself, it’s first of all trying to find you know, what is that, what’s the attractive message or the message that you want to take people to? And a lot of us, myself included, have been doing things like offers or kind of freebie giveaways, which are kind of okay. But I think what you’ve talked about is actually creating valuable content that people can go and read, that they’re being communicated to rather than necessarily being sold to or, you know, or given stuff away to. I’m not, you know, they’re the things that I’ve kind of focused on personally. And then I’ve put a lot of worry into, because you read this sort of thing, into doing the right sort of imagery and testing lots of imagery and A, B, and C and D testing things. So I’m getting all, and I think I speak for other people, and please correct me guys in the Facebook group, leadjacksondev.com/group, if you want to correct me or tell me what you guys are up to. But for me, I’m getting so involved in that sort of process, A/B testing different images and stuff like that, I’m totally not thinking of the person.
Lee Matthew Jackson
And I think that’s probably one of the biggest people, problem, sorry, that people are having right now. It’s number one, not thinking of the person necessarily deeply enough, And the second two, then also not being 100% sure of the message. But I think that comes automatically from what you’re saying when you know that person in a hell of a lot more granular detail. Would I be right?
Jos Aguiar
It’s like, you’d be right. So you know your best friend, yeah? Like, you know what you need to say to them in order to get them to do something. You should treat your prospect the same way. Like, you should understand what their needs are and what’s important to them in their lives. If you understand what’s important to them in their lives, you know what to say to get them to take that next step with you. Example that I find works amazing for agencies, consultants, is what I call a 2-step process, which is giving them something of value upfront. So whether that be some sort of lead magnet, so checklist, a free report, something of that nature, then directing them to a pack.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Everybody likes a checklist.
Jos Aguiar
Simple. It’s, it should be easy for them from consumer. It doesn’t need to be complicated. You don’t need to give them an 80-page report. It should be really simple. They should be able to consume it within 3 to 5 minutes. Okay. Um, if people can’t consume within 3 to 5 minutes, you’ve put way too much time into it, quite honestly.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Good tip, thank you.
Jos Aguiar
Then take them to an offer just to speak to you. So they’ve already established in mind that you must know what you’re talking about. If the report’s good, that just reinforces that point of view. But give them the opportunity to say, okay, now you’ve done the report, the next step from here is to have my— me, myself, my team, um, take you through a consultation call. You wouldn’t call it a consultation, you call it a review or something that makes sense to them. So you’re actually offering them another step of value. And during that call, you kind of set up to say if it’s a good fit or whatever, we’ll actually help you implement them. At the end of the call, we’ll either help you implement it or you can take that, take our plan and go do it yourself.
Lee Matthew Jackson
And is that something you’re saying, that extra value is something you would also continue to offer for free as part of the, as part of the journey?
Jos Aguiar
Exactly. So it’s, it’s value add, but it is a sales process you’re taking them through. So they’re not, they’re not feeling like they’re cornered into purchasing from you, but it’s, you’ve come to me, you’ve given me the plan here, you’ve taken me through my individual steps on a phone call, and you’ve you laid it all out for me, you obviously are an expert. It only makes sense then for me to hire you to implement it for me. Like, if I’m, if I’m smart, I know that obviously you’ve done this a million times, you help other people do it. I’ve already seen proof of other— you’ve done it for other people. It makes sense for me to say, Lee, can you please help me create my agency site? I want to be able to experience conversions. I want to be able to get more customers converting on my website.
Lee Matthew Jackson
That really does make sense. And I love the point you made as well about things like that that are easy to consume, because one— I think one of the, one of the lead checklists I’ve created is something like 20 pages long. So today, this is all a list of all the things Lee’s done wrong in the last year. Thanks, Jos. I feel amazing. So please learn from my mistakes, everyone. Jos has come to show Lee the light and everybody can come and learn from my mistakes before you make them. I literally, I’ve got a 20, I’ve got a 20 pager out there, mate. I’m going to go and have to reduce that into a checklist.
Jos Aguiar
I made so many mistakes when I started, it’s ridiculous. Like, we’ve been training some other kind of people in marketing and we just look at them like, Jesus, that was me 4 years ago. I was an idiot. Like, I was focusing on 10 different things, trying to add too much complicated process, do a million different automation sequences. You don’t need that. Keep it simple. Make sure that your offers can often make sense for us. Focus on the research. Every time I’ve stuffed up a campaign is because I didn’t put the research in the the first place.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, keep it simple. Top-heavy research, 80/20 principle.
Jos Aguiar
Exactly.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Don’t introduce lots of complex automation. You don’t need it. And the thing— I mean, you’ve described some of the simplest funnels I’ve ever heard. You know, you’ve given us more on a freebie, uh, they’ve read their simple checklist, and you’re already then saying, hey, let’s have a chat on the phone. And I imagine it’s a hell of a lot easier for a lot of people to close through a call, and you don’t even necessarily have to close at that point, but the fact that you’ve built up a verbal relationship with that person, you know, over the phone already. You’ve taken them from the internet, which is slightly less personal, and you’ve then had a personal conversation. It’s much easier to take somebody down a journey where you can really add value and help them to the extent where they’ll be wanting to pay you for it as well.
Jos Aguiar
Exactly. You’re, you’re the, you are the expert in their mind, and it works so well because so few people do that.
Lee Matthew Jackson
I know, because I’ve read so much that’s told me to do everything the opposite, mate, and what you’re saying makes sense. And I’ve been getting so frustrated thinking, what if I’ve got to go into ActiveCampaign now because that’s the cheaper one? I can’t afford Infusionsoft, so bleeding expensive. And now I need to create this thing and I need to— if they click that link, I need to do this whole process. And it’s like such a facing.
Jos Aguiar
Have an automation campaign and take them through a 10-step sales page sequence. Sales pages are brilliant and it’s great for scaling up. For most businesses, you don’t need to have a complex sales process. You need leads, you need sales, get the money through the door.
Lee Matthew Jackson
I feel like shouting hallelujah, amen, and everything. It’s like, you know, preach it, brother. This is brilliant. This is exciting. It’s like I’ve seen the light today, you know, because I have, I’ve been worrying about this complete complicated processes, but I don’t need to scale up quick. What I want to do is create leads for my business where we can deliver the product and deliver the consultancy that we do. And I don’t want to have a million leads because I won’t be able to cope with it. I just want a few really good solid leads. And I know pretty much 90% of the audience of this podcast is probably in exactly the same boat as me. They want to just create a few quality leads, some of which they’ll be able to convert into a good paid website or a good paid piece of consultancy and, you know, and be able to just consistently do that to have a nice comfortable business model of which they can then look at growing with all the complexities in the future.
Jos Aguiar
And here’s the beautiful thing about that, Lee. Once you dial that in, you know exactly how much it’s going to cost you to acquire a new customer. So you know it’s going to cost you, I don’t know, 4 cents to get someone to the web page. On that web page, you might get 20-25% of people converting on the front end. Off the next page, you might get another 10%. On your phone calls, depending on how good your sales are, you might get 3 out of 10 converting into customers. Customers. You work numbers backwards, so you would know exactly how much it costs you to get customers. With websites and the stuff you’re doing, you don’t need to have extremely amazing numbers to make a profit.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, exactly, because it’s not a low-value product either that people are offering.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah, you’re offering a high-value product, and you— it’s really easy to make a sale on a phone call. Yes, people have already established they want your help.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, exactly. And I tend to close most deals if I’m either in physically in person or over the phone. Um, I tend to close about 90% of all conversations end up becoming a sale. That’s not because I’m a great salesman necessarily, but usually when I’ve got to the point of a conversation, I’ve done a hell of a lot more work than you’ve just described. But at least by that time where I’m having the conversation, you know, there’s already that trust, there’s already the need, and I can usually close it. But what you’ve described is an amazingly good method of getting people in through the door, and I definitely need to get my ass back on Facebook.
Jos Aguiar
So at this point, they’ve already raised their hand saying, what I have isn’t working, what you’ve said sounds Amazing. Can you talk me through how to do it? Uh, yeah, yeah. Can you do it for me?
Lee Matthew Jackson
This is brilliant. I just love the way you’ve communicated it, uh, you know, over the course of this podcast so far. Just, just simple, easy, an easy framework really to understand there. And I’ve got some great notes already that I’ll put down in the show notes. Over the period of the last 4 years though, I mean, you’ve been doing this for other people. What has been the biggest challenge for yourself? Have you kind of hit a brick wall somewhere where you’ve had a really difficult time in, you know, running this type of agency?
Jos Aguiar
I think the biggest issue you run into is trying to overcomplicate things. Like, same thing as yourself, I used to see all the shiny objects and I should be running these kind of sequences, I should be doing this, this, that, this, that, and the other. Like, I don’t need to do that. This— most profitable campaigns we run are really simple. And I think when people are starting out, they’re looking for this big complex machine that automates everything. Think you don’t need that. You need something that gets customers through the door. And generally, the more complicated you are, the harder it is to replicate. One of the big investors— one of the big— the biggest investors look for simple. Like, one of the best upsell sequences is McDonald’s. Would you like fries with that?
Lee Matthew Jackson
And I always say yes.
Jos Aguiar
That right there is a multi-billion dollar business. Yeah. Would you like fries? Would you like a meal? How can we help you more? Would you like a shopping cart on your website? Would you like a blog on your website? How else can we add value in your life? Would you like me to help you set up an email sequence for when people opt in on your website. It’s taking people through what is your most basic offering through to a higher value offering.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Brilliant. Like that little menu plan as well. I mean, those, those are things that I’ll tend to do, but usually they’ll be in hindsight as well.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Uh, you know, those value adds rather than actually taking them through that process.
Jos Aguiar
Who is it? Um, Troy Dean has a really cool process for agencies that the way he discusses what people need and takes them through that needs analysis, it’s just brilliant. That’s WP Elevation, isn’t it?
Lee Matthew Jackson
On WP Elevation. WP Elevation.
Jos Aguiar
That’s it.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, he’s got great content on there.
Jos Aguiar
He’s brilliant, dude. He’s a smart guy, especially with WordPress. Yeah, yeah, it’s not—
Lee Matthew Jackson
we had him on episode 3, although I’ve yet to reach out to him to get him on again because he was awesome.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah, he’s cool. I’m supposed to be interviewing him myself soon, just haven’t had the time.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yeah, um, in fact, I got a selfie. Uh, Sarah and him met up for a meal earlier today, so I got a selfie in my inbox from them.
Jos Aguiar
I was like, oh my gosh, Troy Dean!
Lee Matthew Jackson
It’s insane. Oh, well, her and Nathan caught up as well.
Jos Aguiar
Yes.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Or is it Nate?
Jos Aguiar
Nate. Nate. Nate.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Who’s actually English. There you go. I didn’t realise that for a long time. I thought it was Australian.
Jos Aguiar
He’s a bit of everything. He literally never stays still for more than a month or so. Where are you today, Nate? Where are you?
Lee Matthew Jackson
I didn’t even know he was travelling, like, you know, in between. I thought he was still where he was. And then suddenly here’s a picture of him in Australia. Yeah, guys, if you don’t know who we’re talking about, we’re talking about Nate. And I’ll put some— sorry, Nathan. I’ll put some links in. He’s the guy behind WOW Australia and he also runs the I Fucking Love Marketing Facebook group, which is a really great place to be if you want to just hear some real hard-talking marketing advice. There is absolutely no bullshit on this one and you guys don’t hear me swear very often, so I’m going to have to put an explicit notice now on this particular podcast, but it is definitely well worth going and checking out that as well. I’ll make sure I put the notes in there. That’s actually where you and Sarah met as well. Sarah Moore is who we’re talking about now, guys, and Sarah Moore, you’ll remember, was on multiple episodes about social media as well. So if she’s in there, you know, it’s a good place to be, as well as our Jos who’s in there as well.
Lee Matthew Jackson
So you can go connect in there, great place. I wonder if we’ll get any money for that. Do you think we get any money for that little ad we did?
Jos Aguiar
Well, I think we’re kind of the admins there, so it’s basically me, Sarah, and a couple others that run that group.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Ah, no way, that’s awesome. Yeah, you just let him know, and, uh, you know, for every new member you get, I’ll have a penny, shiny penny. I’ll be happy with that.
Jos Aguiar
Wow. As well.
Lee Matthew Jackson
So mate, you’ve been absolutely fantastic. Like I said, you’ve just— you’ve opened my eyes. I, I feel like I’ve just created a list of all the things I’ve done wrong over the last year, but that’s good because I love to learn from mistakes. That’s always a good thing because I know how to do it right, and I’m excited to get implementing this. So I’m gonna ask two things of you, mate. First of all, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to people who are, um, running their business and trying to generate more leads? Is there sort of sage pearl of wisdom. And then the other thing we’re going to ask you is how can people connect with you, and then we’ll kick you off the show.
Jos Aguiar
I guess, right, I guess for me the biggest focus is focus on the revenue. Where is the easiest way to get customers? That’s where your initial focus as business owner should be, and replicate that. Do that one thing time after time and time again. That’s how you grow a business.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Yes, I love it. And how can people connect with you, mate?
Jos Aguiar
Of course, um, over on Facebook, which is Jos Aguirre, or on my website, which is iamJosaguire.com.
Lee Matthew Jackson
And to spell Aguirre, it’s A-G-U-I-R. That’s it.
Jos Aguiar
Again, heaps of different interviews, uh, podcast, my own podcast, a heap of different downloads for you guys, even some things on getting new customers through the door. So get all that, get on the website, that’s all free. Feel free to reach out to me if you like, happy to answer any questions.
Lee Matthew Jackson
And he’s got a great Instagram as well, guys, as well, with pictures of his kids and food, nephews, all the sorts of things you’d expect to see on Instagram.
Jos Aguiar
Kids, nephews and nieces, man. Far off from having kids.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Oh yeah? You’re too young still, are you?
Jos Aguiar
I feel like you just aged me like 10 years. Not quite as old as you, Lee. Not quite as old as you yet.
Lee Matthew Jackson
What? Oh no. Right. Well, if people don’t know, there’s a Facebook thread where Jos basically bullies me for ages for being 34 years old just because he’s 12. But anyway, you know, he’s just jealous. How old are you now, mate? You’re going to realise you’re the same age as me, are you?
Jos Aguiar
23, my friend.
Lee Matthew Jackson
23. Oh mate, I’m 11 years is on.
Jos Aguiar
Yeah, so saying you almost had that whole 12-year-old thing correct 10 years back.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Ah, yeah, yeah, if— yeah, no, it’s just depressed. So mate, thank you for, uh, for changing my life. I think, I think I’m gonna look back next year at my new Facebook strategy and, and have so much to thank you for. And I’m sure everyone listening is gonna— guys, if you want to cheque out Jos’s website and connect with him as well, it’s iamJosaguiar.com. That’s A-G-U-I-A-R. Jos, J-O-S-S, so iamJosageer.com. I’m gonna get all of this in the show notes. Make sure you follow me on Facebook and on Instagram, read his blog, there’s great content in there. Listen to his podcast. This guy obviously knows what he’s talking about, and let’s get this sort of stuff in our brains and start actioning some of this stuff. And I’m sure Jos as well would be more than happy to take you down that funnel and have a conversation with him if you need him to help you as as well with your own sales funnels, et cetera. Mate, you’ve been an absolute legend. Thank you so much for being on the show. I’m giving you a virtual high five. And I guess it’s time to kick you off for all the insults you just gave me.
Jos Aguiar
Of course. Wouldn’t expect any less from the British.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Take care, mate.
Jos Aguiar
See you, mate. Bye.
Lee Matthew Jackson
So there you have it, episode 45 wrapped up into a nice, neat little package and out there on the airwaves. Now, episode 46 is going to be great because we’re interviewing Paneer. Penny from Beaver Addons. It’s a brilliant, brilliant episode because I’ve heard it. In fact, I was a part of it. I had a great time. Penny is awesome. And the storey behind their agency and how they got the Beaver Addons plugin going is incredible, especially because it’s only been going for a few months. So really great episode. That’s episode 46. But remember, you can still enjoy an episode every single day this week and for the next 3 weeks as we are going over October, counting down to Halloween, and that is the WordPress tips to try before you die. So head on over to LeeJacksonDev.com, click on the Dare You link in red, you can’t miss it, and go and enjoy the many tips that are coming out over the next few weeks. All right, thanks for listening, guys. If you want to come and chat to us on the Facebook group, don’t forget it’s LeeJacksonDev.com/group. It would be so cool to chat, share cat pictures, and do all the other cool stuff that people do on groups.
Lee Matthew Jackson
Have an awesome week and keep innovating.
