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Verbatim text
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer Podcast. This is an Agency Life episode coming to you every Wednesday Friday, where we interview an agency owner from around the world asking them the same questions because we’re all different, but we’re all the same. So let’s listen and learn from each other. This podcast is brought to you by the Agency Trailblazer community. Is agency life stressing you out? Then it is our mission to help you build an agency that you love. We’ve created a community which includes the agency reset roadmap that will allow you to get your agency back on the right track. We also have lots of noble straight to the point, easy to consume workshops. We have a thriving community of other agency owners.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
And we all wrap up every month with a mastermind call with myself and sometimes a special guest where we unpack your questions. For more details, check out agency trailblazer.com.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Hello, and welcome to another episode of hashtag agency life. This is Lee. And on today’s show, we have Vivienne Neale. How are you today?
Vivienne Neale:
I’m very well. Thank you very much, and thank you very much for asking me to appear on your show.
Vivian Neil:
How exciting. Thank you for being on the show. It was, Courtney that was chatting to you, and it’s been great to get people very, very different agencies on, like, as quite often, we’ll get a lot of people that operate in the exact same way. And we’ve really been trying to find people like yourself, and I’m not gonna, no spoilers yet because we wanna find out. But the way you guys work is absolutely fascinating, so I’m really, really excited to be talking to you. Thanks for coming on. Let’s dive into the first question then. And can you tell us the name of your agency and what it is you guys do?
Vivienne Neale:
Well, it’s all terribly ego centered. It’s called VKN Digital Limited.
Vivian Neil:
Alright.
Vivienne Neale:
And VKN, are my initials. But, we’ve tried very hard to get away from the Vivienne Neale and I’m very much fit to be VKN. So it doesn’t have to be me. But if you really want the truth, that’s it. And what we do is a variety of things. We realize that actually, when people find a solution, they really want you to supply everything. So I had so many conversations where they might say, I need some copy. Fantastic.
Vivienne Neale:
And I need someone that I was thinking about doing a PPC campaign, but wasn’t do you know anybody? Yes, we do. And then actually, my website needs a bit of attention. So in the end, we built up enough skills. So we deal with everything from videography to lead generation, to content, to design, to graphic design, to coding, you name it, basically. And I thought that that was the way because most people are quite afraid and, you know, the Internet is a big wide world. And when you actually meet somebody that you like, you really want them to help you. So we try and help as far as we can.
Vivian Neil:
That’s awesome. I was trying to think of something really funny because you said you name it, and I literally went blank. But I’ve let myself down.
Vivienne Neale:
I’ve got effect on people. Sorry about that.
Vivian Neil:
I’ve let the podcast I’m sorry.
Vivienne Neale:
It’s okay.
Vivian Neil:
I have no funnies. No dad jokes. Okay. So if we were gonna have a birthday party for your agency, for VKN, of which you are clearly one of the stars, and that’s awesome, How old is your agency, and when approximately is your yearly birthday party?
Vivienne Neale:
Well, our birthday party will be in January. Nice. And maybe 2. So we will smother ourselves in cake and put a little attention and bang our hands and feet on the floor, all purple in the face. That’s the point.
Vivian Neil:
Wow. That sounds intense. Any Prosecco involved?
Vivienne Neale:
Yes. Probably. And that that that will probably cause most of this failure.
Vivian Neil:
More than likely. Absolutely. Alright. Well, let’s unpack your setup then. How many people do you have in your overall group or collective?
Vivienne Neale:
About 10.
Vivian Neil:
Okay.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. I say about because somebody is a bit of an approximation, but yes. But let’s say 10.
Vivian Neil:
Somebody’s an approximate. It’s not like the 2.4 children, isn’t it? I mean, you’ve got half a person somewhere.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. Yeah.
Vivian Neil:
I’d be actually terrible if they were really half a person. I’m I apologize in a minute.
Vivienne Neale:
I think it’s more of a few hours kind of a person.
Vivian Neil:
Okay. That’s alright then. Yeah. That’s okay. And, do you guys have an office that you will go to, a co working space?
Vivienne Neale:
Yep. We do. We have a very beautiful suite of offices. Oh. And there are 4 of them.
Vivian Neil:
Okay.
Vivienne Neale:
And we actually, rent those out to others as well if they need them. So there’s always co working spaces available.
Vivian Neil:
Brilliant.
Vivienne Neale:
And it’s also going to be the site of the Northern Creative Arts, community that is just being, worked on at the moment.
Vivian Neil:
Wow. People who
Vivienne Neale:
have, preparing a book, which we will launch, and then start running courses. Yeah. Everything from kinda digital marketing to creative kind of reinvent yourself and earn your living through your creativity types of courses.
Vivian Neil:
That is so freaking cool. We Oh, that’s so keep talking about that, don’t we? As in, like, when it all starts happening, let me know, and let’s get you back on the show to talk about that.
Vivienne Neale:
That would be fantastic. Thank you very much.
Vivian Neil:
Yes. Promote it as much as we can. Anything like that, I think, is phenomenal.
Vivienne Neale:
We’re looking for people to write case studies at the moment. Okay. People who have decided they want to earn their living by their creativity and have just stepped off the ledge and gone for it. So anyone who’s got a story to tell, we’d be really interested to hear from them.
Vivian Neil:
Well, on that then, we know we have a lot of listeners that are literally at that stage. So how can they get in touch with you for that?
Vivienne Neale:
Well, they can email me directly. So I’ll give you the this email, info at viviankneale.com. So that’s vivi, e, dolenny, k for Kate, Neale, n e a l e.
Vivian Neil:
Brilliant. And if I remember, we’ll make sure we get that one in the show notes as well. Thank you
Vivienne Neale:
very much.
Vivian Neil:
Thank you. Awesome. That’s really exciting. I mean, brilliant. Okay. But I will calm down, and let’s get on with these questions. I’m very bad. I keep going off on a tangent, which is why I
Vivienne Neale:
have these questions. That’s the best way.
Vivian Neil:
Oh, well, I’m getting you on for a full episode because we I think we can probably feel a good hour nattering. Well, I know it. But, anyway, for this one, your team culture, so you’ve got the the shared office space, which is awesome. There’s the the 10 or a bit of I’m joking. There’s the 10 of you. What’s your team culture?
Vivienne Neale:
Our team culture, we’re stress heads really as our culture. Yeah. We tend to, we tend to kind of sit around and play it really cool, and then somebody says, you do realize this is supposed to have been done by and everyone just kind of jumps up and goes for it. So Yeah. That’s the kind of thing that we, I suppose, we don’t enjoy it. We just seem to function better under extreme pressure. Yeah. So that really is our culture.
Vivienne Neale:
But I suppose, on the positive side, we like to see ourselves as being a bit, I don’t know, left field if you like. I wouldn’t like to say that we are corporate. We’re not. We tend to all, I’ve got the top half with my pearls on. Yeah. Bottom half has my black shorts.
Vivian Neil:
I did wonder where you were going with this.
Vivienne Neale:
So that’s about how we are. So black Short seems to be de rigueur. That’s that’s our company culture, really.
Vivian Neil:
So corporate chill.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. You got it. Absolutely.
Vivian Neil:
And for me and you have already had a good banter and a chat before the call. So I assume there’s a little bit of banter and a bit of, jovialness going on in there as well.
Vivienne Neale:
Joviality. Maybe that’s what I’m saying. Joviality.
Vivian Neil:
Is that a real word?
Vivienne Neale:
I think it is.
Vivian Neil:
I like it. I’m I’m using it. I’m gonna try and fit that into my next conversation.
Vivienne Neale:
Okay. You do that.
Vivian Neil:
So, as you as the group, as VkN? Yep. Do you guys work in any particular industry or niche?
Vivienne Neale:
Well, that’s I would like to say yes. But whenever I say yes, something else comes along. So we have a huge variety. We, sometimes have periods of Fintech, and cybersecurity, cryptocurrencies, that kind of thing we we kind of work with. Mhmm. We’ve had a lot of startup businesses working with us. And they have, range from, drones, service. Mhmm.
Vivienne Neale:
And they’re all highly qualified, going for it. That was been exciting. And we’ve just picked up a new client today, that is working on, sports consultancy.
Vivian Neil:
Wow.
Vivienne Neale:
So, I I I, you know, I I we do websites for all kinds of people. Somebody, who’s delivering a new rental experience for people who, find themselves in a position of having to share a house. Yeah. And it’s not they don’t want the typical student share with fungus in the fridge. They want something really top quality.
Vivian Neil:
They’re not all stereotypical, but you’re right.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I thought everyone could, you know, could quickly form a picture of that, you know, not take too much time. So, we’re also in involved with, a very good company now who have really come on called NoAgent who are offering, the rental experience at a fraction of the cost of normal, bricks and mortar Cool. Agencies. So we do quite a lot in property. I wouldn’t have said that was one of our niches, but apparently it is. We work with chartered surveyors, all sorts of things.
Vivienne Neale:
However, we do write with we do work with poets and artists, counselors, and coaches.
Vivian Neil:
I I can’t even try and string that into a short sentence. I’ll say epic. You work with a lot of people, but it sounds like for you guys that variety is the spice of life. Yeah. That’s right. Working with all these different types of business. I think the commonality is, though, I imagine the commonality is is that you’re able to provide them quite a broader service, and kind of hold their hands through a lot of things. So I assume Absolutely.
Vivian Neil:
That might be why they come to you.
Vivienne Neale:
But, you know, web service design, sometimes, you know, you you do that and people just want a list of things you want. They want to see it for it and then hand it back to you. Say, right. It’s done. Yeah. Is very much kind of bespoken. You would say, oh, I’m not quite sure whether or to add this. What do you think? I’m looking for some copy.
Vivienne Neale:
Not quite sure about the design here. Can you find any images for me? So that it’s quite hands on, really.
Vivian Neil:
So you are you are like the extended marketing department for lots of different types of businesses.
Vivienne Neale:
Yes. Thank you
Vivian Neil:
very much
Vivienne Neale:
for that. Yeah.
Vivian Neil:
So, alright. You can have that one for free if you haven’t already been using it. Thank you. Alright. I think we’ve kind of already alluded to this, but I’ll ask the question anyway just in case it’s something else. But what do you feel the main problem is is that your agency solves for your clients?
Vivienne Neale:
Well, yes. That one stop solution because actually, you know, we have so much choice. And if you look at it, curation actually is such a a buzzword. And, you know, a lot of people make a lot of money through creating no. Sorry. Curating content for other people. Yeah. And so they say, right.
Vivienne Neale:
We’ve done the hard work for you. And this week, have a look at the world through my lens, and it’ll save you lots of time so you don’t have to go trawling for it. So there’s a lot of that, and people want time saving ideas. So if they find somebody that can solve 6 or 7 problems for them and they trust them and then do a good job, then you’re onto a winner, I think.
Vivian Neil:
Amen. Preach. I would I would hallelujah. I should remind me, I need to send you my favorite GIF on that one. There’s a really good one.
Vivienne Neale:
Thank you.
Vivian Neil:
Yeah. We use a lot of GIFs in client emails. It seems to work great. I don’t know.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. It does.
Vivian Neil:
Well, let’s talk about marketing then. And, how are you generating I mean, you work with a lot of people. So how are you generating these leads?
Vivienne Neale:
I have to say that, in the old fashioned way, there is a lot of word-of-mouth. Okay. My latest client that dropped in the inbox today is a recommendation from somebody whose website we’ve just finished.
Vivian Neil:
Brilliant.
Vivienne Neale:
Well, that’s always fantastic. And I think, you know, if you can really, create goodwill, amongst your client base, that’s always fantastic. We do network and I’m the one that gets pushed out to do that, which is,
Vivian Neil:
a lot of breakfasts you have to eat.
Vivienne Neale:
I know, I know. But it’s very time consuming.
Vivian Neil:
Mhmm.
Vivienne Neale:
And sometimes I think the return on time investment is not quite what it should be. But maybe that’s because I do it badly. Who knows? But, yeah, I’ve tried all kinds of networking from the very super formal to the incredibly informal and all points in between. But,
Vivian Neil:
anyway enough, I found the most successful to be the informal one because I was even in a BNI, and that was, like, insanely stress stressful and fun and great all at the same time. But
Vivienne Neale:
Okay. Yeah. So I wasn’t gonna mention that. Yeah. Who was with them.
Vivian Neil:
Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, yes, I was with them. And, I I definitely think I I’ve made way more leads out of the informal chilled out one because there is no pressure. There’s no not to bad mouth BNI because some chapters are absolutely amazing, but, unfortunately, in some chapters as well, there’s not really everyone’s pulling their weight. And if not everyone’s pulling their weight, then it doesn’t necessarily work. Whereas the informal one, things just happen naturally through being friends. So I found that worked best for me anyway.
Vivian Neil:
Yeah. Okay.
Vivienne Neale:
Actually, I’m gonna give a plug, not that I’m getting anything for this, but there’s a brand new one in Yorkshire called Square Peg.
Vivian Neil:
Square Peg?
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. And, that ends up being a, almost like a social media platform as well where you work online and also kinda offline when you go to your meetings. And they are very uplifting and excellent. I’ve only been to 1, and I reviewed it on LinkedIn. Yeah. I I thought it was worth watching for. And I think they’re spreading out. The idea would be to go across the country, I think, in the long term.
Vivian Neil:
Awesome. Hey. Hey. Yep. You Yorkshire people, go check out Square Peg. It sounds wicked. Oh. I hope.
Vivian Neil:
Alright then. This question might be quite deep or it might not. I don’t know.
Vivienne Neale:
Okay.
Vivian Neil:
But how do you measure success?
Vivienne Neale:
Let me think about that.
Vivian Neil:
Well, if it helps, you could either think of how do you collectively, as an agency, measure success, or you could take it as to how do you measure success? So it could be on a personal scale.
Vivienne Neale:
Speaking to each other at the end of the week Mhmm. Then it’s been a successful
Vivian Neil:
week. Brilliant. Yeah. So you’ve not all killed each other. That’s good. That’s definitely, That’s definitely
Vivienne Neale:
it. I suppose we do the boring things like, measuring any kind of inbound marketing success. Mhmm. And also, I run a quite a tight LinkedIn ship. And I suppose conversions to be the boring thing. But, you know, I suppose I I suppose measuring success, there is that kind of touchy feeling thing that if you’re still enjoying what you’re doing and still have that kind of real interest, and I don’t want to use the passion because everybody says I’m passionate about and that’s been a bit overused. But if you still have enthusiasm for what you do and can kind of really, communicate that to everybody who you’re talking to, then I think that is a measure of success because it takes it’s a it’s a mental and a visceral thing, this game. And, contemporary marketing takes a lot out of you.
Vivienne Neale:
And if you’re still standing at the end of the week, then you’ve done really well. And if you’ve got a smile, hell. That’s brilliant.
Vivian Neil:
Brilliant. Yeah. So not killing each other and essentially enjoying what you do. Yeah. Not passionate enjoying it. It sounds cheesy, but I do say to a lot of people I’m always pushing people, not pushing people, but encouraging people to look at what they’re doing. If you don’t love what you’re doing, then, you know, have another think about what what it is that you’re doing. What can you change so that you can love it? Or are you just in the wrong industry? So, as this conversation I have with myself.
Vivian Neil:
Alright. We’re now into confession time. So it’s just me and you and a few thousand listeners, so don’t worry about those guys. What is the biggest problem you feel you have as an agency?
Vivienne Neale:
Did you say we’ve only got half an hour?
Vivian Neil:
Oh, crumbs. No. I didn’t say that at all. Depends how long this monologue is and and how how entertaining it is. I I could sit here all afternoon.
Vivienne Neale:
No. I think the biggest problem, and I don’t think it’s just us, is scaling.
Vivian Neil:
Yes.
Vivienne Neale:
And we have all been encouraged by the development of AI and technology in general to think that we can create a business. And it is quite easy if you’ve got a laptop and you get yourself a website and a couple of business cards and you’re, you’re there in a way. If you’ve got an idea, you can make a start. But actually trying to scale that business, and that means taking on staff, taking on premises, actually managing it with sort of bookkeepers and accountants, and thinking about, you know, VAT registering and all those kinds of things. And then also sort of thinking about, you know, staff management, outreach, being able to fulfill what you promise, because, you know, obviously juggling more and more things. I mean, you know, we have to have those plate spinning skills. And sometimes I really, really am stretched from stretching that side to getting to the other one right at the other end. You know? And it takes, a huge amount of organization.
Vivienne Neale:
So I think, for me, and there’s not enough, support, not enough funding, etcetera, etcetera for those businesses who need to move on to the next level. So if I said anything, if somebody said, right, you you’ve got to kind of confess this now, right now, immediately, it would be, you know, I need help scaling.
Vivian Neil:
Okay. And I admire your honesty. A lot of us, a lot of agencies wouldn’t, admit to that, but it’s something that a lot of us do struggle with. It’s it’s the because a lot of the time, it feels like we’re doing, you know, time for money, etcetera, and it’s really you have to do more to get more money in, but that also then means you have to get more resources in, so things have to change. And it’s it’s it’s definitely, a growing pain, I think, for a lot of those agencies, trying to work out that middle ground, and we’re all going on the same journey. So you’re in a great great group here with Agency Trailblazers because there are people within Agency Trailblazer community who’ve kind of gone beyond that now, and they’re they’re blazing a trail, as it were. And then there’s a lot of us as well who are kind of in that middle ground trying to work out, okay, how do we get to that next level? And I think it’s hard. I don’t think there’s a necessarily I don’t think there is an answer necessarily.
Vivian Neil:
No. I think you have to kind of keep unpacking that answer, don’t you, on working it out, but you will get there.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. Because I already know you’re a legend. Oh, wow. That’s cool. Long lunchtime. Yes. 15 minutes. I mean, I think that collaboration has an awful lot Mhmm.
Vivienne Neale:
To to recommend it. Yeah. I think if you can really tightly sort out who you want to collaborate with Yeah. I think that is a is a a good solution, and that’s what we’re looking for all the time, really. We’ve always got our eyes open for people we can work with.
Vivian Neil:
I think you might be getting a few emails at the end of the day. There’s a there’s a there’s a few listeners I know who probably wanna collaborate, and there’s a great people in the community.
Vivienne Neale:
That’s brilliant.
Vivian Neil:
Well, let’s switch gears away from business for a little while, and, I’d love to talk about well-being. I’ve confessed this pretty much every episode that this is the bit that I really struggle with as an agency owner, which is, being healthy, the best mentally and physically. So the first question would be, how do you personally switch off? Because you’ve already confessed that, you know, sometimes you may feel a bit stressed or a bit stretched. Do you have any ways tips of switching off so you can just chill your mind out for a
Vivienne Neale:
bit? Well, in this book I’m writing, yesterday, I wrote a chapter called nurturing your creativity.
Vivian Neil:
Okay.
Vivienne Neale:
So, I only say that not as a plug, but because it’s on my mind.
Vivian Neil:
It’s okay. I wanna read the book.
Vivienne Neale:
And, I have, a very small writing space that is big enough to have 2 pieces of old scaffold board nailed together and put on the wall and a small, stool, some shelves on this side and enough space behind me to put a small chair. It’s got one window in front, it looks out in the garden and it used to be the coal shed.
Vivian Neil:
Cool.
Vivienne Neale:
Right. And I go in there every single morning, usually about 5 in the morning because that’s when I wake up.
Vivian Neil:
Okay.
Vivienne Neale:
And I freehand write. And there’s no tech allowed in that room, not allowed to eat anything in that room. It’s almost like a monastic cell. And I go in there and I write equivalent of my morning pages and then come away from it. And that, clears your head of all the niggles and gripes, you know. Oh, no. I’ve got an interview this afternoon. Oh, for goodness sake.
Vivienne Neale:
I haven’t done it before. I’ve got a headache or, oh, today I need to kind of, you know, go to the post office, whatever. You get all that out, down, whinge, moan, groan, whatever you. And then what happens is you clear space and your head opens up. And the book, I actually wrote the 17 chapter headings
Vivian Neil:
Mhmm.
Vivienne Neale:
That morning. And when I walked into that office or space, I didn’t know that book was in my head.
Vivian Neil:
That is awesome.
Vivienne Neale:
That is awesome.
Vivian Neil:
Create before you consume, I was told many years ago by some guy that I can’t remember the name of. But having that morning of creativity, I e, like you said, clearing your head, but it’s also you’re clearing up space to be creative. And And you’ve written the flat plan for a book. That’s amazing.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah. And and
Vivian Neil:
Great advice.
Vivienne Neale:
It it it it just really work hard. And bearing in mind that as, in the kind of industry we’re in, we are supposed to be creative. We’re supposed to be a font of ideas. And for too many of us, we keep taking water from the well and never replenishing it. And in the end, you will put the bucket down there and it will come on the bottom. Yeah. You’ll say, where did everything go? This sorry, this morning, I couldn’t do it. And this is the first time for, I would say, 6 weeks because I had something else I had to do.
Vivienne Neale:
And this morning, my head’s been all over the place. Because I always being very reactive rather than being proactive. I’ll shut up now.
Vivian Neil:
No. No. It’s good. I I just because we we’re definitely going off sort of a bit, but it’s fine. But what you were saying was, what I like about what you’re saying as well is, I think because we we are creatives, but we don’t exercise that creativity, we can also fall into a trap of allowing our customers to tell us what they want. And, therefore, we then also then just start to become robots just doing what people need us to do without us actually thinking outside of the box and being creative and making the relevant recommendations to our clients. So cool. I knew that was gonna be a deep one, but let’s get on to the next one Okay.
Vivian Neil:
Which I definitely struggle with because I have zero motivation for this at the moment. And it’s how do you stay healthy? Or do you? I don’t know.
Vivienne Neale:
Well, I would say that, this morning, I went to the GP. Okay.
Vivian Neil:
That’s always a good place.
Vivienne Neale:
She said, you need to get shot of the visceral fat around the middle. I said, marvelous. So she said, what you need is more exercise. And I said, look, I just don’t need this because it’s something else to do. Now any exercise head that’s listening to this will say, that is just an excuse because if it’s important, you’ll find the time. Mhmm. But, I guess that if we do make the effort to go out running or walking or doing whatever we think is right for swimming, but actually that does clear us headspace to to do the creative thinking that we need to do. So maybe we can still multitask by going out swimming, running, walking, and then clearing our heads to to to think the kind of thoughts that we want to have.
Vivienne Neale:
But like you, I I am really struggling with looking after myself, in that respect. And, you know, we all spend a huge amount of time sitting and it scares me when people keep saying sitting is the new smoking.
Vivian Neil:
I’ve not heard that and that now scares me. I feel like I should now get my standing desk and go and stand at that and do the rest of this interview.
Vivienne Neale:
I think the standing desk should be an absolute and we’re we’re talking about getting some.
Vivian Neil:
Yeah. No. That’s a great idea. We we’ve got standing desks in the office and, I don’t use it enough actually. So now that you’ve said sitting is the new smoking, I think I’ll be standing a lot more. So right. We’re coming into land. We’ve got our last question.
Vivian Neil:
Oh, boy. I can imagine everyone listening to the podcast suddenly all standing up and kind of jogging on the spot. So well done. You’ve you’ve given us all a fire under our belly. But anyway, last question is all about a industry tool or not industry tool, but a tool. It could be software or whatever, that you guys use that you feel has been, instrumental in your success so far and why.
Vivienne Neale:
I don’t know if I can necessarily say there’s one thing
Vivian Neil:
Okay.
Vivienne Neale:
That has changed our lives. But we are fairly recent converts to using Asana and Trello and all those things that we’ve all avoided. Yeah. And, that has that has made us feel much tighter as an organization. Yeah. And it’s dead easy. I still keep look, I’m gonna show you. I still keep a blackened Yay.
Vivienne Neale:
Book. Yeah.
Vivian Neil:
So do
Vivienne Neale:
I. Yeah. It’s cool. Way. I’ve been doing this for years years. And so you could say to me, what were you doing in 2009 on the first of August? So I’ll say, oh, hang on a minute. Yeah. Well, I can still do that.
Vivienne Neale:
And I I like the fact it’s there. I don’t have to switch anything on. I don’t have to worry about something downloading or not getting a Wi Fi signal. Yeah. But I think some of those management, things makes you think about your planning.
Vivian Neil:
Mhmm.
Vivienne Neale:
And going back to that issue of scaling, that is really, really important.
Vivian Neil:
Yeah.
Vivienne Neale:
So, oh, do you know there are loads of things, but, you know, because you put me on the spot,
Vivian Neil:
I’d have to No. I think you’ve you’ve hit the right one. Asana, especially, we use it internally as well. We’ve got the the upgraded version so that we’ve got templates for different types of projects that we have, etcetera. We can spark up a new project really quickly. But that is absolutely what drives all of our tasks. And although I still have the task list with the tick box and priority numbers that I still use every day, Everything that’s on there is also on Asana. It’s just that sometimes because this like you, the some of the stuff that I do, especially the creative stuff, I don’t need a computer for or at least I don’t need the Internet for.
Vivian Neil:
So I do like to have the physical piece of paper, and I love putting a line through it when I’ve done it because ticking a box in Asana is nowhere near as satisfying as just going with a line. Yeah. Yeah. So
Vivienne Neale:
and then, of course, my iPad because I’ve got hold on a minute. I’ve got my,
Vivian Neil:
pen. Yep.
Vivienne Neale:
And I draw and Brilliant. With it. And that is a a great tool. So if you’re gonna do a doodle, let’s do one that’s kind of worth keeping.
Lee Matthew Jackson:
Let’s do a digital doodle. Yeah. Digital.
Vivienne Neale:
Yeah.
Vivian Neil:
Well, this has been awesome. I knew it would be. Thank you so much for your time.
Vivienne Neale:
Well, thank you for asking me. I’m really lucky to take part. And if I can help you at all with anything, just give me a shout.
Vivian Neil:
Awesome. So folks, don’t forget to connect if you are interested with regards to the program you were talking about earlier. We’ll make sure we get everything in the show notes. Be sure to check out the website. Be sure to connect. Thank you so much for your time. Have a wonderful day.
Vivienne Neale:
Thank you and you too.
Vivian Neil:
Cheerio.
Vivienne Neale:
Bye.
