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Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer Podcast. This is an Agency Life episode coming to you every Wednesday and Friday, where we interview an agency owner from around the world, asking them the same questions because we’re all different, but we’re all the same. So let’s listen and learn from each other. This podcast is brought to you by the agency Trailblazer community? Is agency life stressing you out? Then? It is our mission to help you build an agency that you love. We’ve created a community which includes the Agency Reset Roadmap, that will allow you to get your agency back on the right track. We also have lots of noble, straight to the point, easy to consume workshops. We have a thriving community of other agency owners, and we all wrap up every month with a mastermind call with myself and sometimes a special guest where we unpack your questions. For more details, check out agency Trailblazer Comm and welcome to Hashtag Agency Life. And today in the hot seat is Mr. Kevin Brennan from Build Studio. How are you today?
Kevin Brennan:
I’m good. Thanks. How are you?
Lee:
I’m tip top and champion. Thank you. Tip top and champion. I’m loving those glasses, man. You’re looking very good.
Kevin Brennan:
Yeah. It’s, uh. It’s, uh. It’s necessary. Yeah.
Lee:
Well. Fair enough. Okay. I do have glasses as well. They are necessary. But I’m also extremely vain. And I was a cheapskate and decided to go for the non anti-reflective stuff. So if I put my glasses on, you would actually just see this weird effect on the video, um, of multiple versions of me in my eyes, which is very, very off putting for people. So I’m now squinting at the questions for the rest of this, and also for people who are listening on audio. Be sure to check out our YouTube channel. That’s agency trailblazer.com/youtube, and you’ll be able to watch these very interviews. That’s why I comb my hair. All right. Shall we rock and roll then and go into the first round which is the about your agency section. You ready for this?
Kevin Brennan:
Yes. For sure.
Lee:
Sweet. All right. Tell us the name of your agency and what you do.
Kevin Brennan:
All right. The agency’s name is Build Studio. We’re based out of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Uh, to be honest, it’s pretty standard stuff we do. About 90% of our work is websites. Uh, WordPress websites. We have a few legacy clients that are on Drupal that, uh, unfortunately have to stay there. But, uh, we, uh, the other 10%, we do some, some branding work, uh, graphic design and all that kind of fun stuff. And typically that kind of work is is done when they want a website as well. Um, occasionally we’ll get a client that wants just a logo or just some graphic design work, but usually it’s in tandem with the website or a full rebrand and all that fun stuff.
Lee:
So awesome. So websites being one of the key things you offer, but everything else around that as well. The branding exactly. And all of that good stuff. Yeah. If I was going to buy you a birthday present as an agency and sing Happy Birthday and get a candle with cakes on, when is your agency’s birthday?
Kevin Brennan:
It’s, uh, August 17th, 2011. So this is our. ours. It’ll be our seventh year.
Lee:
Oh, man. So that’s not long off. Have you got anything planned?
Kevin Brennan:
Um. Year end taxes. Uh.
Lee:
Oh, man, that sucks about it. I hope the tax man’s birthday to you is like a nice rebate or something. That would be amazing.
Kevin Brennan:
Yeah. Well, now that it never seems to happen.
Lee:
Unfortunately.
Kevin Brennan:
Which I guess is good, you know, we we’re not giving the government a tax free loan, so. True. You know, they they want some money and that means we’re doing okay.
Lee:
So that’s a good sign. So let’s find out a bit more about your setup then mate. Um how many people do you have in your team?
Kevin Brennan:
Uh, well, right now it’s just myself. And then we’ve got contractors. So I’m the only full time employee. We’ve, uh, we’ve gone up and down, up at around 3 or 4 in the past, and now we’ve settled back down to just myself. Uh, contractors. Uh, we’ve got a few web developers, and then we’ve got photography partners, video partners, copywriters, things like that. Um, the stuff that we don’t we can do, but we’re not experts at. So that when we when it’s time to do the heavy lifting, you know, things like SEO work, we can get we can get a website out the door as good as possible. But when it comes time to doing the big, the big, uh, you know, backlinking and all that fun jazz that I don’t even enjoy. We call them some SEO guys, so we do some work with. So, um. Yeah. So that’s kind of, I think.
Lee:
I think it’s a very common model to go. So you’ve kind of got the, the agency model where there is a physical building and you’ve got maybe 5 or 6 people all meeting in one place. Um, but I’m seeing more and more people going the lean option and having a more virtual setup where you’ll have your partners, you’ll have contractors who are regular, and also everyone’s working from specific locations. Which kind of segues quite well into the next question is, do you have a physical location that you leave to go to and work at, or I’m guessing, do you work at home?
Kevin Brennan:
Well, we did have a physical location until December, so lease was up and we said that there’s not not a whole lot of point in spending that money. I want to say we were excuse me. We were paying close to $4,000 a month.
Lee:
Wow.
Kevin Brennan:
For, you know, for the parking and for leasing. And, you know, we had about 1100 square foot spot. That was gorgeous. It was right downtown Calgary. It was fun. Yeah. Um, but completely unnecessary. So.
Lee:
And looking at the video, if people go ahead and check on YouTube, you’ll see what a beautiful location you’re sat in right now with all those books and everything looks really cool. Did you have to tidy?
Kevin Brennan:
I tidied a bit to be honest.
Lee:
Everything is under here right now in my.
Kevin Brennan:
That’s right.
Lee:
Yeah, exactly. I can’t actually no.
Kevin Brennan:
Pants right.
Lee:
Now. No pants? Oh, man. So obviously you have a team you’ve got a setup of contractors and partners and that. And what sort of culture do you guys have?
Kevin Brennan:
Well, I mean, there’s a lot of people that do what we do. So, uh, I mean, we kind of pride ourselves on on keeping clients, keeping them happy, having lots of long term clients. Um, so the customer service side of things is what we kind of focus on. Um, we also want to make sure that it’s, you know, the I mean, I’ve got kids, all of our contractors, they’ve got families. Um, so it’s it’s it’s a, it’s a work when you want work when you can kind of atmosphere I like that. Um, because, you know, on a nice day, I’d rather hop on my bike for a couple of hours than do some web work. So I’ll work into the evenings if necessary. Um, so we kind of. Our hours aren’t really set. It’s when people want to do what they do. As long as the work gets done, it gets done. Um, and then, you know, the customer.
Kevin Brennan:
I mean, they always say the customer is always right. Not always the case, but the customer needs to come first when we need to understand what they need. Yeah. And so that’s that’s where we come from. So as long as we’ve got the, you know, the happy contractors and happy clients, everything seems to run pretty smoothly.
Lee:
So I really like that. And it’s family seems to be the very common thread throughout everyone I’ve interviewed so far on agency life is is making that time for family and having that balance. And I love what you said about actually sometimes it’s well worth just going out. We did that today at me, Larissa and my wife Kate just went out for a meal and we chilled out for two hours, and then we came back to the office because why the hell not? So it’s a beautiful day outside, and we were stuck inside in a really hot office. And it’s the hottest weather for the UK right now, so we might as well enjoy it because we only ever get three weeks of summer. Well, yeah.
Kevin Brennan:
I’m in Canada so we know exactly how that is.
Lee:
Yeah, I remember Back in the day.
Kevin Brennan:
That’s right.
Lee:
I lost the accent a long time ago. So let’s talk about your your mission, your business. And I guess the next question would be, do you work in a particular niche or niche, depending on how you say it?
Kevin Brennan:
No. Uh, niche niche, niche. We say niche. I say niche, but we no, I don’t. Um, and one of the big reasons is that Calgary is a big oil and gas town. And a few years ago that was in the crapper. So, uh, almost immediately all of those clients dried up, and we found that a lot of the of the people that we knew in the industry that kind of had those clients, they lost a lot of work very quickly. Um, and while we did see a bit of a dip because of that, you know, all that trickle down, everyone kind of in this town is, is kind of connected to oil and gas somehow. Yeah. Um, it was a lot slower for us to lose those clients and to see that trickle down. So, you know, we only actually lost a couple big, bigger clients and we were able to hang on to all the other ones. That kind of kind of was our base anyways.
Kevin Brennan:
So yeah. Um, that’s the reason why we haven’t gone in with a niche. Um, but you know, I know that it works really well for someone, for some agencies, for us, it’s just it’s more fun to, you know, one day be working on a hair salon or a yoga studio. The next day, it’s like oil and gas or the next day it’s a non-profit. Um, those kind of things. It’s a little bit more interesting and a little bit more diverse for us.
Lee:
So that’s exactly why I niche on agencies, because I get to work with agencies who all have completely different niches. So I have worked on a yoga website, a hairdressers website, equally massive, huge enterprise corporation and their back office CRM system. So it’s like no day is the same and I’m with you there. I totally agree, I’d never thought as well on the niche thing about the whole risk of if you are in a very specific niche, and that niche was to be affected, I don’t know by Trump’s latest. Tariffs, etc. and then businesses are closing down left, right and centre. It can be very scary. So I’d never actually thought of that. And so thank you. Thank you for that one.
Kevin Brennan:
We do some agency work too. And that’s kind of fun. You’re right in that they’ve got their own niches. And um, you know, we don’t have any beer clients, but they do. And so it’s been fun to, you know, pick up some of their work.
Lee:
Awesome. Yeah. So as an agency, you kind of alluded to what you do quite a lot, which is predominantly around websites etc.. But as a as an agency, what do you think the one main problem that you solve for your clients might be?
Kevin Brennan:
Oh well, a lot of them. I mean the immediate answer is, is just the technical side of things. A lot of our clients are just really good at what they do. So if it’s a retail client, they’ve got their brick and mortar store. They can they can sell their clothing, um, they know fashion, all that kind of stuff, but they don’t necessarily know anything about e-commerce. They don’t know about, you know, payment gateways and security and order fulfilment when it comes to doing things online. And so that’s where we kind of kind of bridge it for them. We want them to be able to have that kind of the usual personal touch that they add to their. When they see their clients face to face, and how we can kind of convert that over into something that’s digital. Um, so it’s still kind of personal. Um, you’re still dealing with the same customers, just in a different way. So, um, you know, typically it’s the technical side of things, obviously, that they, you know, might not have the same kind of strength with.
Kevin Brennan:
So. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then I think just understanding the user, uh, is is important. Um, a lot of our clients put it delicately. They seem to think their content is the most important thing. And it is. But sometimes they want to answer every question that their potential customers possibly could have, regardless of whether it’s going to overwhelm them or not. So they’ll, you know, they’ll throw a 3 or 4 page document at us and say, you know, put this on the website. It’ll tell the clients everything.
Lee:
Oh, man. Yeah. You know.
Kevin Brennan:
So I mean, everyone’s got this.
Lee:
I guess that’s because they’re really good at what they do, but too good at what they do.
Kevin Brennan:
No, exactly. And so we just step back and say, no one cares about your content as much as you do. Um, let’s, you know, pull that up, pull it apart so that we’re giving them the best of what you’ve got.
Lee:
So, so you’re kind of solving the technical aspects that disconnect between their knowledge and then getting on the web, but also it sounds like, as well as the strategy as well behind it. So you cannot put a three page document up. Let’s look at this differently I like that. Yeah. All right. Let’s talk about marketing. And how do you guys generate your leads.
Kevin Brennan:
Um, I mean it’s almost entirely word of mouth at this point. Um, you know, a few years back, we had we had done some search engine optimisation work and occasionally we get that those kind of calls. Uh, typically they’re just tyre kickers, though. Um, so they’re just looking for quotes so they can fill their, you know, three quote requirement that they got to bring to the boss. Yeah. Um, but for the most part and the best leads are always referrals. And the reason is that I hopefully they found out what we charged the last person. Um, so they know the, the quoting process is a little bit easier because you’re not having to guess at what their budget is going to be. Um, and so there’s a little less sticker shock, which is nice. Um, they also know that kind of work we do. So when we, you know, when we populate our website portfolio, it’s not always just the best work, but it’s also the work that we want to be doing.
Kevin Brennan:
Um, so like I particularly enjoy working with nonprofits. Um, people sometimes think nonprofits don’t have money and they have a lot of money. Uh, typically. And they’ve got a lot of money to spend. Um, on things like the web, things like getting their message out. So they often will be able to put a lot of trust in what we do. So we, we target those, uh, those clients on our web. And typically, you know, they will come from other agencies or other nonprofits that have been doing work with us or do work with them. And they it just feeds off each other. So the referral work is where we get almost all.
Lee:
And with nonprofits, what it means is that they have actually got an awful lot of money set in there waiting to be spent and reinvested, etcetera. It’s not that they’re not making a profit. It’s a common misconception. I’ve seen agencies lower their prices for nonprofits, not realising that actually the non-profit really wants to invest in whatever it is. They’re not looking for. Well, a good non-profit is not looking for a cheap price. They’re actually looking to benefit whatever the cause is or whatever it is that they’re doing. So I’m with you there. So success. How would you personally measure success?
Kevin Brennan:
Yeah. Well, let’s be honest. It’s, you know, you’re making money, you’re able to you’re able to pay your mortgage, you’re able to, you know, keep your kids in whatever activities they’re in, uh, you know, go on vacations. Uh, I mean, that’s the kind of the easy, tangible thing. Um, but the the the cheesy answer, but which is also the correct one is, you know, you don’t dread going and sitting at that computer every day. Yeah, I know I did. I know I did before I went out on my own. Mhm. Um, you know and I haven’t felt that since going out on my own, which is nice. I know a lot of my friends that are still kind of in that job that they’re kind of forced to be in or they, you know, they they’re working for someone else and they don’t necessarily enjoy it. Um, and they have those, oh, I hated my job today. I get those too.
Kevin Brennan:
But for the most part, it’s, you know, I don’t mind doing what I’m doing. It’s it’s enjoyable. Um, so.
Lee:
I think I will echo that as well. When I worked for a few other companies, I had multiple breakdowns. And yet on my own running my own business, I’m probably under way, way, way more stress than I ever was. And I still love getting up in the morning and I still run to my desk to get started. So I’m with you there. And also just being able to, like you said, just pay the bills, do all of those good things. I get sick of seeing on TV or seeing on, um, Facebook. All of these. Look at my amazingly massive house and my really amazing sports car. And I’m just thinking, I literally don’t care. I just want to do what I love and I want to be with the people I love. So I think we’re very similar, mate.
Kevin Brennan:
Yeah, I’m very minimalist. I don’t I don’t want the big. The bigger the house, the bigger the house you got to clean.
Lee:
And the the bigger the bills.
Kevin Brennan:
Exactly.
Lee:
So now I want I want to kind of get into a little confession time. It’s only me and you and a few thousand listeners. So I would love to know what is the biggest problem you have as an agency or running your business?
Kevin Brennan:
Um. Probably. Yeah. Well, and it’s going to be it’s probably my own fault. But, you know, when you when you run your business, you run it your way. Yeah. So when working with contractors or working with anyone really, even even, uh, you know, employees, you kind of have to take a step back and say my way isn’t always the right way. Um, the way I code isn’t necessarily the prettiest or, you know, isn’t the only way to do it. Um, my design isn’t the only way to do it, that kind of thing. So being able to just take a step back and realise that your way isn’t always the right way. Yeah, you do that with clients too. They know their business better than you do, whether you think you do or not, whether you think your idea is perfect. Um, you know, they’ve got they know things that you don’t. So swallowing that ego a bit is can be a challenge.
Lee:
I gotta admit, I’m still working on that one. The whole swallowing of the ego.
Kevin Brennan:
Yeah. No. And me too. I know I’m not perfect at it right now, but it’s one of those things where you just kind of, you know, you make. I’ve made mistakes in the past where I’ve. I’ve thought I was right. And the customer came to me, you know, a few months later and I was like, yeah, this this wasn’t the solution that we needed. Um, and, you know, we outlined this, this, this and this. And, you know, if we’d kind of stuck with that, maybe that might have changed our ideas a bit. So, um.
Lee:
Well, the good news is, it sounds like you are aware of the problem, and you’re totally working on it.
Kevin Brennan:
Exactly.
Lee:
You’ve highlighted it in myself, whether I.
Kevin Brennan:
Whether I can overcome it or not. We’ll see.
Lee:
Now we’re coming in to land. Now we’ve only got a couple more questions left. And this next section is on wellbeing. Something that I know I’m personally struggling on. A couple of questions. The first one would be how do you personally switch off from kind of the day to day, the business and all of that stress?
Kevin Brennan:
Well, for me, cycling is kind of become one of my my passions, I guess over the last few years, um, getting out on the bike and, you know, leaving everything behind for about two hours, you know, is awesome. Uh, you know, my wife sometimes asks, like, you know, you go on the bike for 3 or 4 hours and I’ll go 100km or whatever. And she’s like, what do you think about when you’re on the bike? And like, to be honest, nothing. Yeah, I worry about, you know, maybe the cars that are going by or whatever, but it’s just it checks me out mentally and it’s perfect when you don’t have to worry about, uh, you know, servers or, you know, emails or anything like that. You’re just kind of you’re just checked out. Um, and then, you know, family, family time is good. Building Lego with the kids, that kind of stuff.
Lee:
Amen, brother. Loving the Lego. That’s right. Yeah. Amen. Well, you’ve kind of answered my second question as well, which is how do you stay healthy? So I think we can literally jump on to the very last question, which would be name one tool that you feel has been, um, essential to your business’s success and why?
Kevin Brennan:
Well, I mean, it’s the reason we started. I started listening to you. Right? It’s WordPress. Um, if that’s a tool, I guess. Software? Yeah, whatever. That.
Lee:
That’s a good enough tool, man.
Kevin Brennan:
Yeah, it’s it’s made. It’s it’s made me some money. It’s made my clients lots of money and as a free tool. That’s crazy. Um, so we as a, as an agency, we try to give back to that. So, you know, I help. This year I helped organise the WordCamp in Calgary, and next year I’ll be taking the lead on that, which is fun. Uh, and just trying to get more people involved. Yeah. Um, I mean, yeah, it’s it’s WordPress. It’s, you know, it runs.
Lee:
Pretty much all I can say. And folks, if you don’t use WordPress, be sure to check it out on WordPress.org. I’m pretty sure 99.89% of everybody listening to this podcast still remembers it was the WP innovator podcast before I changed the name, so probably everyone still uses it. So and it powers 30% of the internet. So I’m with you. Alrighty mate. Well, that is everything. Thank you so much for your time. It’s been great to learn about your setup. I’m kind of blown away by the cost per month that you were doing, um, for an office, although saying that I guess I’m in a village. So the towns around here, There is so much office space around us that it’s all really, really cheap comparatively, so we can get a lot of square footage for a few hundred pounds. So the thinking of 4000 a month kind of blew my blew my noggin a little bit, so quite impressed. And the instant stress in my head was thinking, oh crap, that’s one big bill I’d have to, like, put out for every, every single month.
Lee:
So I’m, I’m, I’m with you on the we thought we.
Kevin Brennan:
Thought of it as a as another employee basically.
Lee:
It is it’s insane. So yeah. And I suppose you know when you’re in the States you’re nearer the bigger cities in that the whole price of, of, of, of space goes right up. It’s the same down in London. You know, I would not be able to get the space I, I have up here down in London so it’s ridiculous. But anyway, mate, thank you so much for your time. You are a legend.
Kevin Brennan:
Thanks a lot.
Lee:
Take care. Bye.
