91 - Lessons From Agency Life

Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.

Verbatim text

Lee:
Welcome to the WP Innovator Podcast, the podcast for web designers and design agencies, exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now your host, Lee Jackson.
Lee:
Hi, and welcome to episode number 91 of the WP Innovator Podcast. This is a wildcard episode because me and Steve Picanza from The Creative Hustler decided to get together to unpack more about loneliness, about entrepreneurialism, about agency life, about health, about well-being. And we shot the breeze on Facebook Live and the conversation was brilliant. We had a great time. It was super cathartic just being able to kind of offload our feelings, offload our thoughts and share the lessons that we’ve learned along the journey. And I felt it was really, really apt to package this up as a podcast. So obviously, I apologize. The audio is not going to be the usual quality because we are exporting this from Facebook Live. But the content is killer and I really wanted to share it with everyone. So this is our wildcard episode 91. I know you’re going to enjoy this. Please come and join in the conversation over at WP Innovator.com/group. Group that is going to redirect you to the Facebook group where we can talk about this more. Let’s help each other out. We’re a community of peers, of friends, and of family, so let’s help each other out. Let’s talk about this because these are important subjects. We need to be looking after ourselves. So guys, sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. And you better keep those arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times because there is a reason. Enjoy.
Lee:
Technology fucking brilliant. Amazing. Run a podcast and yet here I am doing a live stream and I’m like, what do I press? Hello? Do I press? Is this thing on? Well, I should probably do an intro, shouldn’t I? And keep this professional. So let’s do an intro. Hi and welcome. Welcome to probably the first and hopefully many live streams with me and Mr. Steven Picanza from The Creative Hustler. Steven, how you doing, mate?
Steve:
Oh, Lee, I’m doing great. What’s up, guys? I’m stoked to be here. Lee, I’m excited that this is your first time going live. Not going live, but like doing…
Lee:
I was gonna say I’m not, you’re not taking my virginity, but, you know, close. I’m just taking you to a different base. But doing like, I don’t know, a little weird for a second, but going live, doing like a broadcast with somebody else, right?
Steve:
Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. It’s amazing what technology you can do, and it’s kind of disorientating as well because I’m kind of keeping my eye on the live, but it’s kind of like behind, so I can see your hands flapping around right now, and it’s like I’m looking at the past playing live. Considering I’m an Italian, my hands go all over the place when I talk, so don’t get too dizzy.
Lee:
Hey, Italian, I can speak Italian. Did you know that?
Steve:
Yeah.
Lee:
Ravioli, spaghetti.
Steve:
Pizza, pasta. That’s pretty good. That was very awesome. We’re going to be really close to you, Lee. We’re going to be down, we’re going to be in Europe for three months. We’re leaving October 1st.
Lee:
Three whole months? Are you planning on coming to England?
Steve:
I’m not really planning. It might happen. We’ll see if it happens. You know where I am.
Lee:
Yes, I do. I do. So what are we talking about today, Lee?
Lee:
Well, I figured it would be good. Basically, I shared a… I did VEDA, so that was like 31 episodes, and over the course of time, I was doing tons of content and we were just talking about nice, helpful things for agencies. And then I kind of like had a day where I was just like, you know what, I’m going to share some of the stresses of running an agency. Let’s be real. So I shared that and that had loads of feedback. So I then kept unpacking it and unpacking it because I’ve been going on a journey myself now for the last four years especially. I’ve been in agency life for eight to ten years, and the first, like, half of that was just hell. Pure hell. Loved it, and it was hell, if that makes sense. And then for the last four years I’ve been purposefully changing things in the agency and was therefore sharing some of those experiences on YouTube and they seem to have blown up. Well, more than the top tips for how to clean your car or whatever the videos I was doing. And I figured, you know, it would be good to have some conversations online. You reached out in the comments saying, well, why don’t we go live and let’s have a conversation. Let’s shoot the breeze as two agency guys who experience agency life on a daily basis, and let’s talk about health, well-being, entrepreneurship, loneliness, stress, as well as all the things that make us happy.
Steve:
All, all of the above. Yeah, I think it’s crazy. I think that there’s a lot of agencies, and I forget what the number is in the state, but it’s like, you know, you want to be an agency, you get two freelancers to work on the same project, and next thing you know, you have an agency, you know what I mean? And that just seems to be what the trend is. And the barrier to entry to starting an agency has never been lower, but I feel that the bar of what makes a good agency also has never, like, been lower. Like there’s a lot of just mediocre bad agencies that are doing it for the wrong reasons and not doing it to really further business, you know, to progress business, to progress, you know, brands, and to really make, you know, make a difference. They’re looking for profits. They’re looking to make some quick money off of Facebook ads or something. And to me, you know, there’s, there’s a big disjoint there is a disjoint in the agency world. I know you feel it.
Lee:
You, you know, I totally feel it. And well, I mean, not only that, but I mean, it’s the competitive landscape as well. You, the bar has never been lower for the cost of entry. I can be a free, I can be an agency with a couple of freelancers, but it also means that the cost as well has plummeted down. So how do people provide agency level service when people kind of expect, you know, freelance prices?
Steve:
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it’s, um, my history, just for everyone, um, I had an agency from 2008 to about 2012. And, um, we were, I always come from the creative side of things. And so we were a creative shop. We were putting together, we were putting together brands. We were putting together, uh, you know, uh, creative campaigns, you know, and starting to, to dive into content and to dive into how social plays a part of it. And I think ultimately one of our biggest downfalls with the agency was what you were just talking about was where’s our value? What’s the value you’re providing as a service provider? You know, I, I, you know, you, down here in Southern California, we have some massive agencies and they can, they can, um, you know, price out a website at a hundred thousand dollars or 150,000 and get the job, but they’re providing a large value. They have the rolodex. They have those pretty logos on their website.
Lee:
Do those things still exist? You’re showing your age, man.
Steve:
I got that business card, Audrey. Cool.
Lee:
I wish I could do that. Imagine that. Now it’s like going through LinkedIn but, um, Steven, sir, there’s a call for you online too right after I have different… I have different lines going on. It’s funny, Melissa tells me yesterday or the other day, Melissa tells me she called up one of our, um, one of our like partners that they help us with some, with some ad stuff, and she called her office and she’s like, oh my God, they have an answering service. They’re legit. I was like, you know, we can get an answering service too, but it’s like, let’s call my cell phone. That’s the way the business works.
Lee:
Great example though, because we are totally digressing already, which I love. Um, I have an answering service and it’s like, it’s like 20 pounds a month, which is what, 28 dollars a month? Yeah. And that gives me like so many calls that they’ll answer, and then every extra call that they answer is like a couple of pounds or something like that. And it means that if I’m not around, which is quite often, I’m a small agency, there’s only four of us, and we can’t be near the phone all the time. There is an… we appear like a bigger agency because I mean, my clients know it’s an answering service. I don’t lie about it. But I mean, again, the cost of entry in becoming an agency is so freaky.
Steve:
Yeah. Anyway, carry on, mate. Sorry.
Lee:
No, no, no. Well, Lee, let me ask you. How many people do you get a lot of phone calls? Are you and the people that are calling, are they leads that are calling you mainly or other, other clients? Like who is calling you besides the bill collectors?
Lee:
Well, thankfully I pay my bills like the same day I receive them, so the bill collectors never call because I’m one of the best payers I know. There’s agency hack number one: pay your bills the day they come in the mail, then there’s no surprises.
Steve:
Yeah, because that’s something I learned eight years ago. If you let your bills stack up and then if you borrow from the tax man to pay the bills, the tax man then chases you. It’s just a never-ending cycle of…
Lee:
Exactly. That was like eight years ago. Scary times.
Steve:
No, I can imagine. I’ll tell you what, talk about agency life. That’s like the one part about agency life that I feel is detrimental to agencies is the business side of it. It had a how to actually run a business. Like you’re not just there to create. I wish it was like that. I wish we could just get paid to create and then be peace out. Like I don’t need to do anything else. But we have to follow up on invoicing for project management. There are all these little nuances that go into running a successful agency rather than just a bunch of freelancers working on a project together and not having that legitimacy.
Lee:
Yeah, no, I had a conversation with Larissa today actually because I’ve had to like jump onto our invoicing for a bit to chase a few people. Our bookkeepers finally got caught up on all of the invoices and there was a whole lot of invoices that I found out have not been paid. So I’ve then been chasing those up and then other emails came in and then I just kind of for one minute just said, ah, Larissa. She’s like, what? So I was like, sometimes the business aspect just gets in the way, is exactly what I said. I’m like, I just want to get onto building this freaking website. And we’re, and I’m catching up with that. But to answer your question, calls predominantly the calls we get, it’s, I would say it’s 60 percent leads, and then the rest are either sales calls, which obviously I’m glad the answering service take, or clients who learn very quickly that they just call my mobile. So, you know, yeah, because it’s easier to call my mobile or send an email because I really try and manage communications. And I do answer my mobiles when that rings, unless I’m in a meeting. But most clients understand now that most questions they have, unless like they’re on the edge of a cliff about to fall off and need my help, you know, then it’s not an emergency. Most phone calls are not an emergency, and it’s better for the paper trail even for them to have some sort of email conversation going on rather than them calling saying, oh yeah, I told you last week on the phone. I’m like, well, I don’t remember that conversation. Do you know what I mean? It’s like not run down never happened.
Steve:
Yeah, yeah. So getting to, and this is I think we’re really what we wanted to chat about and this really hit me hard I would say last week and a week and a half ago. We know we’re talking about health, we’re talking about wellness, entrepreneurship, it’s all, it’s all combined. Melissa was in Boston for a week and for those that are new to my world, Melissa’s my wife and business partner and we run a brand called The Creative Hustler. Not to be confused with Larissa, right?
Lee:
Just not to be confused with Larissa.
Steve:
So this is marvelous, one constant apart. Uh, she was in Boston for a week and I was here working at the apartment and you know, recently as I reached my stride of mid-30s, I realized I don’t have a lot of friends. Um, I don’t have a lot of friends, um, who live around me and that we do the same thing. You know, you are, you know, I’m all about trying to surround myself with people I aspire to be like and those people, they’ve all moved away. So you got John Bertino, who you know very well with the agency guy, he moved back to Philly. My best friend lives in New York. I have another five, a couple friends in Europe, and I realized, well, I don’t really have a lot of people around here, Lee. Lee, yeah, one of the ones in Europe.
Lee:
Yeah.
Steve:
I realized that loneliness, loneliness and entrepreneurship go hand in hand. And I realized that we get so excited about our projects that sometimes we put blinders on to the rest of the world, and it could really, um, it could be depressing, you know, and it could be, especially when you’re in the grind, you know, let’s just say you’re in the middle of a project, in the middle of a build, and like all you’re working on is this and all you’re, and you’re consumed by it. Um, it’s like you forget, at least I do, is I sometimes I forget about time. I forget about other, um, things that I have to do with my life. I mean, you have a family, I don’t have a family yet, and I just get so consumed with it that I become, I become my own worst enemy and I know I’m not the only one who feels this.
Lee:
I like that. I all the time and sometimes as well, the it’s more attractive to me to actually hide in that bubble and to get my head into a project or to throw myself into the new CRM that’s going to solve all my problems. Um, you know, and all those things because it does actually tend to become more attractive because we do… I mean, my internet life and my social life, it’s all around Facebook and Twitter and and obviously my clients and then the work that I do. And it’s also all my hobby as well. All my work, like building websites, apart from the business side where I’m doing invoices, that ain’t my hobby. That’s work, right? But most of the time I’m doing even finding a CRM for the business. It’s like I just try, I’m all, yeah, this is great fun. Let’s do that. And you forget, don’t you? If you realize that you’ve been in the house for weeks on end. I mean, it’s not quite true. We go out and socialize, but I socialize only with my wife and child. There’s no kind of, not very many outings where we meet other people and hang out with other people outside of business networking.
Steve:
Right, and how do you get around that or have you got any plans?
Lee:
It’s difficult. I feel like, okay, so I had my agency like 10 years ago and I was in a different place. I was 25, 26, 10 years ago. A young whippersnapper. A young whippersnapper. And for me, networking, my business partner and I at the time, networking was a game. Let’s go and it was kind of like a singles meetup mix, you know, mixed with like, let’s go find business. And it was like and we would we would, you know, we were gamified. How many business cards can you get? How many meetings can you book? How many dates can you get from people that you’ve met, you know, from girls that you met at these business events? And it wasn’t… I just shake your head and just, damn it, Steven.
Steve:
It wasn’t good for business, I’ll tell you that. Like I didn’t get many leads from it. I got friends. I thought I got what I thought were friends, but they weren’t progressing me forward. And, you know, and so now it’s like, like you, like you, Lee, like my world is online, my life is online, and sometimes I just want to go grab a beer with someone and have a conversation on my level. And that right there, that comment right there to me is like, wow, you know, have I gone so far into this rabbit hole of entrepreneurship that like I’m tainted now? Like I could never have a normal relationship with another guy before with another, you know, um, another, you know, that’s weird to say it like that, but a relationship with another like male figure that we can just hang out. I mean, because it’s, um, the world is different and like we, we, we hang out through video conference and we hang out and this is how we talk and this is how it’s almost like a, like it’s therapeutic in a way. Um, you know, it just makes me realize that as entrepreneurs I think we have to work harder at having normal relationships.
Lee:
Yeah, yeah, because I mean through networking I create good friendships, but again, I mean they’re kind of like strategic friendships. Some of them become proper friendships, but again, they’re the strategic friendships. Me and you, we’ve not seen each other for over a year. Last time we hung out was in London, wasn’t it? And we partook in beer, and I wore a suit that was too tight for me because I didn’t know I was going to go to the meal until I met you and I was like, you know, I’m going to hang out with these guys. They’re hilarious. So I went to Primark and didn’t try on the suit. I thought, I love it. And then squished. It’s vintage. It’s a vintage suit, right?
Steve:
It felt vintage, oh my gosh. I’ve still got it. I keep trying it on just on the off chance that I’ve lost weight, but I ain’t lost weight yet, so it looks like you have. It looks like you’ve, uh, you’re leaning, you’re leaning up.
Lee:
Yeah, I’ve been going to gym every day so, well not every day, that’s a lie because that’s bad for you kids unless you’re doing it as part of a, like, program that someone’s…
Steve:
Are you working with a coach?
Lee:
Uh, no, I’m doing, I’m researching online at the moment because I’m out here, but then when we’re back, uh, there’s a gym down the road and I’m gonna actually get a PT, personal trainer, and actually then go through a proper program. So for now what I’ve been doing, and this kind of is a perfect segue, isn’t it, into health as well…
Lee:
Well, just wrap up your thing.
Steve:
Yes, we have a responsibility as entrepreneurs to make sure that we are building up other friendships and not just getting lost in our own businesses. And then segueing into health, we also have a responsibility to our business and to our family and to the communities that we serve outside of business to keep healthy, and that is something that’s really hit me. So dad died three years ago. Body and soul. It’s mind, body, and soul when it’s health. And I was actually awesome, and maybe it was my subconscious preparing for this morning. I watched an awesome documentary on Netflix last night called Feel Rich, and it’s about the hip-hop community, and it stars Russell Simmons is in it, Common, who’s another hip-hop artist, The Game, who’s a hip-hop artist, and it’s about all these rappers and hip-hop artists who have found, who have jumped on the wellness train and who have found that health, wealth, and a solid mind is going to allow them to be better performers, better artists, better creatives. And as creatives, you’re creative, I’m a creative, we need to have that online, that internal alignment. If we are not happy with ourselves first, how can we go ahead and create something that is awesome for somebody else? Because deep down inside our creativity is a reflection of where we are at that time and that point in space. When Michelangelo was painting the Sistine Chapel, he was in a certain time in his life, and that’s what made him and propelled him to create the way he did. Ten years earlier, ten years later, we wouldn’t have the same masterpiece. We would have a different masterpiece. Not to say it’s better or worse or, you know, that’s subjective. But in this documentary, a lot of it was based on meditation. I mean, they talk about eating right and talk about meditation and they talk about spirituality. And I think those three things, and obviously physical fitness, you know, moving more than than you’re not moving. And as entrepreneurs, Lee, I know you can attest to this, sometimes I, I’ve been sitting out for, you know, eight hours, you know, I haven’t lapped and just drinking coffee because I’m in deep in a project. And ultimately, like, we, I think here in the States especially, we, um, hard work meaning I worked 18 hours today is kind of like a badge of honor.
Lee:
Yeah, that’s kind of bullshit because how much of that 18 hours did you work? Were you unproductive or are you harming yourself, your relationships, your mindset, your weight? What did you eat? Eight bags of chips in those 18 hours? Or did you go out and have a salad with some fruit and a proper meal?
Steve:
And that’s what that documentary was talking about. Salad and a fruit is not a proper meal. Who are you? Get off the show. You mean a steak.
Lee:
So, so, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s so important. And I actually right before I hopped on here with you, Lee, I was, um, I did my 10, my little morning 10-minute meditation. And, you know, it’s one of those things where, yeah, it’s kind of goofy and maybe it’s trendy these days and entrepreneurs to kind of do that, but I don’t see how it can do any bad, you know what I mean? Like spending some time for yourself has to do good for you, which in turn it does good for everyone else.
Lee:
I think though, I mean, when you hear it, it’s all well and good, but people then think, well, how the hell do I apply that? And what’s the motivation? And I think sometimes it takes like an aha moment, like some sort of major catastrophe. So I shared on the video, um, I think I don’t remember if you watch this one, this was what dad died like three years ago, three and a half years ago, and his life around his entrepreneurship was that he was doing the 18-hour days, um, like, um, and he was he was running a church, he was also running his business, um, and everything that you said is so right. He was putting all of that time and energy into doing that all of the time, which meant he could, I mean, he was still brilliant what he did because it came very easy to him, but there was so much more he could have done. Was he not pushing himself all the time? Um, so by doing less you can do more, by allowing other people to get involved you can grow a church rather than trying to do everything yourself, you know, if we’re going to put…
Steve:
Yeah, and that’s exactly the same in business. By not trying to do everything ourselves and actually looking after our own health, then that allows your business to grow because you’re allowing other people to help you grow and other people to do things. But also there’s the creative energy and the level. You know, dad worked until midnight, dad died an hour later in bed. That’s like ridiculous. And that was like my aha moment too. I do not want to repeat, you know, my father’s history here. I’m doing the same thing. I’m working 18 hours and, you know, and working weekends. So it’s, it’s been a, it’s had to be a massive shift. So for me, it’s been that story for me that I have to keep telling myself to remind myself when I start slipping into that kind of bad habit again. And I hope that story helps other people who are either watching now or listening later. And that sort of story, it’s, it’s, it actually happens. And, you know, and it is actually really bad for our health working really long hours and not putting our health first.
Steve:
There’s a guy called Frank. I’ve made really good friends with him. Um, and we actually met just the other day because I’ve, that time I’ve been out here we’ve specifically done what I’ve not done for a long time, which is go out and meet people as friends, not networking. So we hung out with him in an Italian restaurant of all places, uh, Francesca’s in Winter Park. Guys, if you are anywhere near Winter Park, go to Francesca’s. It is the best Italian in the world. Um, but anyway, we were talking about how, um, I was like, oh yeah, yeah, family first, blah blah blah. And he said, well, there’s one problem with that. And I was like, what? He was like, actually it’s health first. I was like, what do you mean? And he said it is health first because if you’re not healthy, you know, we’re not worth anything to your family, you know, we’re not worth anything to your business, to your community, to whatever it is that you’re serving. So to be healthy and look after number one is actually a requirement to be able to help everyone else out, um, you know, and be the best you can possibly be for all of those people. So it’s actually my responsibility to get my ass down to that gym and that I have found especially since that conversation with Frank, that was a few weeks ago now, that’s been one of those things that has really helped drive me. The story of my dad, you know, to remind myself of that story, and then to remind myself of what Frank said about the responsibility I’ve got to my family and my team, Larissa, Karthik, everyone at Angle Crown, etc., is to be a healthy Lee and, um, a mentally healthy Lee as well, um, so that I can serve all of those to the best of my ability. And 18-hour days is not the best of my ability. That is laziness and killing yourself.
Lee:
And yes, and killing myself and all of that, you know. You know, we wear here in the States, we, you know, it’s like I said, it’s that badge of honor. You know, I grinded all night till 5 a.m. and I did this and I have family members who, you know, it’s blue collar and they get paid directly. Their pay is directly proportionate to the amount of hours that they work. They’re a police officer or they’re a fireman and they work 18 hours, they get paid for 18 hours, and now their family livelihood is expecting, oh, well, we’re expecting those 18-hour paychecks. But like the body and the mind can only do that so long before you’re just, you’re burned out and you can’t do it anymore. And that’s why, you know, it’s funny in this documentary, there’s a lot of rap stars. They were wearing their weight as a badge of honor. Like there was this rapper called Fat Joe or even Biggie or even Big Pun. And I know like, you know, perfect, some people like I can’t believe we’re bringing back hip-hop or rap. Um, but these guys, they were purposely beefing up because for them it meant, hey, I’m eating well, you know what I mean? I’m making money. I could, they came from nothing and a lot of us came, you know, I came from nothing. I was, you know, I started business just like you, Lee, with nothing.
Steve:
I know.
Lee:
You know, and it’s like, well, this is a sign of wow, business must be good because I’m eating well, I’m getting bigger. But ultimately what happened to a lot of people, they died prematurely because they just went down this whole rabbit hole and they didn’t, they put their, and it’s kind of in a way, it kind of is selfish. They put themselves first before the common good of what they’re doing, and that is their family or their business or the people, like you just said. Lee, you just wrapped it up, packaged it awesomely. You know, if you go into it with a selfish attitude, it’s all about me, it’s all about what I want, all about what I want to do, everyone around you is going to suffer, and you’re not going to be there for a long time. And you know, it’s recently, and you know, maybe it’s, you know, entrepreneurs in their 20s, I feel like are still eating Doritos and drinking Mountain Dew. But as you start to get a little bit, and then as you get a little bit older, it’s like, okay, I’m not playing the short game. I want to do this. This is, this is a lifestyle and a lifestyle I want to be the best freaking person I can be, and I want to look the best, I want to feel the best. I don’t want to be… look, I don’t have any children yet, Lee. I don’t want to be 40 plus, like I know people who are 40 plus who are so overweight and their kids are running circles around them. Like, I can’t be me. I don’t want that to be me. I want to be always be on top of my game because why not? Like there’s, there’s no reason why I can’t, you know? There’s no reason. We’re just like, you know, hey, we’re fortunate. We make money off the internet. That means I can do anything in the world, wherever I want. So I want to just be in the best mind, body, and soul possible. And it’s been, of course, it’s been a struggle going to the gym, and I started working with a trainer myself, and I’ve seen awesome gains and I’ve seen, like, I’ve never felt better. But like, I don’t want to wake up and go to the gym at 7:30 tomorrow morning, but I do it because it’s, I got to get into that habit. And, you know, as entrepreneurs, we, I think we are, um, we base so much of our life on habits and we want to have routines, and routines are good for us. Um, but also I think it’s like one of those routines of like, I want to keep this, um, the longevity of it because we’re not working for retirement. There is no retire age, Lee. When are you going to retire?
Lee:
When I’m done. I’m already retired. Right?
Steve:
Three times. He’s retired and he’s still doing it because it’s a labor of love and this is like, this is not purpose. This is why we’re here.
Lee:
Just speaking of retirement and you saying kind of why not with health and everything else like that, it kind of brings it to me as well full circle because you say the new rich. Um, or oh you said something about that. It was it the new rich? You said something like that.
Steve:
Uh, feel rich. Feeling rich.
Lee:
Feeling rich. Okay. So that was it. So um, for Our Work Week, it’s a book I mentioned a lot. There’s a lot of stuff in that book that I’ve never really followed that does not apply to me, but there are a few small snippets in that book that just had massive, a massive powerful effect. And one of those was his phrase, probably borrowed it from somewhere else, I’m sure, which is the new rich. And that is all about feeling rich, living the rich lifestyle. So that doesn’t mean having a massive house that you can’t afford to run if your cash flow screws up. We actually live in a really small house with two bedrooms in it, and it costs us hardly anything in comparison to a lot of other people I know who have got massive mortgages. What we’re doing is we’re trying to live lean, uh, in, you know, in the areas that we need to, the boring areas as it were, you know, like the car and all that sort of stuff, so that we can enjoy a richer lifestyle. So, you know, spending two months in Florida to meet with new business partners and then to also relax and chill out and all of that good stuff, um, is the lifestyle, isn’t it, of the rich people without having to actually have the physical amount of money in the bank. I don’t have, uh, you know, I’m nowhere near a millionaire at all. Um, it’s laughable how far I am from that. But, you know, I’m still able to do something like this, which most people would think would be unaffordable, but it’s not, um, when your priorities are different.
Steve:
Yeah, when your priorities are different, you’re no longer buying the latest iPad, you’re no longer buying the big expensive car. We’re gonna make our car in England last as long as it freaking well can do. Do you know what I mean? It’s a case of what are the important things? And for us travel and time and, you know, together are important. So let’s segue into what you guys are doing. What made you guys do this? Because you are about to spend three months in Europe and you’re going all in, man. You’re like selling books. I mean, that is ridiculous going all in.
Lee:
Yeah, well we were packing. Today’s a holiday here in the States and we’re spending the day packing. You know what it was? It was, um, there’s a lot of overconsumption and there’s a lot of just especially here in the States and there’s overconsumption everywhere and everyone needs things and things and we get things and we give things. It’s gifts and fucking things everywhere and I’m sick of it. I’m overwhelmed by it and I want to… You mentioned the word lean and, you know, I think we live pretty lean right now. Um, but there, you know, the hero’s journey, you know, in storytelling, you have the hero’s journey. The hero’s got this, um, innate passion or desire inside that I have to go accomplish something. And my hero’s journey, I’ve always felt this, and I’ve tried to… I’ve only lived in two places. I’ve lived in New York and I lived in San Diego. Uh, Melissa’s only lived in two places. She lived in Boston, now she lived in San Diego. And I’ve always had this, um, this feeling of I need to go out and explore and I need to go out and I need to see the world and I need to have my own hero’s journey, uh, longer than six weeks, longer than, you know, and also not having the idea of I’m coming back to comfort. Comfort. I’ve always traveled and I’ve always come back to a place to live, whether it was my apartment or my parents’ house at the time, um, or whatever. And I think the biggest change is like we’re giving up our apartment. We have an amazing apartment in downtown San Diego. Our view is sick. I don’t know if you can even see it now, but like our view is just… that’s pretty awesome. Look at that.
Steve:
Um, but it’s there, you know, it’s coming to the point where, um, I need to change and I need to get out there, I need to grow. And Europe has always, you know, my parents are from Italy, I’m Italian, so I have a lot of connections there. Um, and it’s it’s like, okay, let’s, let’s go there. It’s let’s give up our apartment and let’s go for three months and let’s just immerse ourselves in a different culture because A, why not? And B, I’m going to learn so much about myself and I’m going to learn so much about the world in turn which is going to affect my business and it’s going to affect the clients I have and the students that I teach and it’s going to and it’s only going to make it better. And the idea that we’re not going to have a place to come home to is a weird feeling, by the way.
Lee:
Voluntarily making ourselves homeless. Thanks for the sound effects.
Steve:
That’s exactly how I feel.
Lee:
Yeah, that’s just, it’s the coffee and, and um, it is quite the journey though, Lee. Like I’d be lying to you if I told you I wasn’t nervous as hell, you know. It’s just and it’s just giving up the apartment. That’s the big part and it’s voluntarily making ourselves homeless. And it puts myself in a kind of weird… we make money. I make money online, which is brilliant. I mean, I’m so fortunate now. It’s like, great, like where do we want to live? What do we want to do? And and, you know, where, we don’t have any children yet, but that can very easily change. And with that and when that happens, well, where’s headquarters? Where do we touch down? So it kind of became before that happens, let’s, let’s go to Europe. Let’s just go and explore and see what this world has to offer, and wherever it takes us, it takes us. So we’re doing three months. We’ll be in Europe until the beginning of January, and then we’re in New York City for a month, and then we’re back here in San Diego for an event, and then in March I am in Arizona and Vegas with my guys from Open Eye Global, and then come April we’re like, hey, I don’t know what the hell is gonna happen at that point. Who knows?
Steve:
Cue sound effect again.
Lee:
No, I’m missing it. Wank.
Steve:
Uh, oh that sounds amazing. It but that’s that is amazing. That’s, it’s like you said, it’s something that you are going to learn from because just spending two months out here, I’ve got so many ideas of stuff that I am going to apply when we get back. Me and Larissa have already had multiple meetings, discussions. I’ve got copious notes, like literally copious notes. So I want to… everything back on you, Lee. You being no, it’s about you now.
Lee:
No, it’s not about you.
Steve:
Yeah, yeah. Uh, you being here in the States for two months, what has that done for your business? Like what was your mindset when you got here and now as you’re kind of wrapping up? What’s your mindset? Where were those, uh, growth, um, those growth areas?
Lee:
So for me it was, it was actually not necessarily about the business. It was to go on my own journey.
Steve:
Journey. Yeah, yeah.
Lee:
To go on my own journey, of which now I’m kind of addicted to. So this is not going to be a one-off. This is something that we are totally going to do and we’re going to transition and try and do life in different places. Um, even though my daughter’s at school, we’re just going to do the homeschool thing. So that’s, that’s kind of that. And with regards to what it’s, yes, with regards to what it’s done for the business though, you know, the offshoot of that is, is that I’ve met a whole lot of new people here, um, which has already created opportunities and we have already gained new clients, which is phenomenal, um, just by being in the same time zone. Um, you know, some of these people I was already talking to even before we came here, um, but by being in the same time zone just for a little while allows quicker conversations. People are texting me on the cell phone, you know, we’re able to get things done quickly. It’s, that’s been, you know, a bit of an eye-opener for that. But predominantly it has been about, um, changing my mindset and by changing my mindset and realizing what is and isn’t important because you’re forced to because your time zone’s screwed out and, you know, you don’t have as much time to do the UK stuff and and then you’ve got all this spare time at the end of the day and, you know, it’s the whole thing has made me realize what is important. So I was complaining to Larissa, so you know, all this business stuff is getting in the way. And the result of that conversation as we’ve learned by being out here is that’s now going to get outsourced. You know, all these different things to make priorities. Um, and the other thing was, is that I told people, I said earlier, didn’t I, about these 18-hour days and and I’ve had to use things like that story of my dad and and reminding myself of what Frank said to make time to be healthy, but also to make time for the family and that and a big part of this was to try and make time for the family as well, which we’ve been able to do. Um, like I’ve sometimes worked only three-day weeks and realized I can still run a business doing three-day weeks. Um, and still, yeah, and still have time with the family and go out in afternoons. And we’re not even doing stuff where we’re even spending loads of money or anything. We’re actually just going out for a drive and looking at stuff and going, ha, that’s how Americans do stuff, especially for Florida, right?
Steve:
Exactly, exactly. Like we’ve got… we’ve gone other than Disney, we’ve not actually gone to like anywhere. We’re not going Universal, not gone Legoland, anything. We’ve not actually paid to enter anything else. All we’ve done is gone like and met with people and made friends and gone out for lunch with them or dinner with them, you know. We’re going out for dinner in two days’ time with a lady that we met here and her family. She’s just invited us all over and we’re going out there and we’ve had people, you know, come to us. It’s just phenomenal.
Lee:
You’re folding yourself into the fabric of the society and…
Steve:
Yeah, like immersing yourself into the culture.
Lee:
Exactly. And it’s just helped me realize that I miss all this at home and I want to have people around for dinner at home. I want to be going out for dinner with people at home. There’s so many things I want to do three-day weeks sometimes at home because it’s so freaking important to spend time with the girls. Um, you know, so so really it’s been less about the business. It’s been more about a personal journey, but the business has totally been benefited by it and will continue to be because of the lessons I’m learning and the streamlining that I’m starting to do, even though I’ve been streamlining for years, right? I’m doing a lot more of it now. And I think there’s the trick. It’s like working on yourself, putting yourself first and working on yourself a direct, um, you directly impact your business indirectly if that makes sense. You know, like you’re not… you didn’t come here saying, I’m gonna have this massive business shift and there’s gonna be everything is gonna be different.
Steve:
No, no, no. You came here saying, I’m working on Lee and I’m working on, um, on the house of Jackson, right? That’s most of Jackson? Yeah, you should, you ever start a band please call it that. The Hoj. Uh, and by doing that though, your business is now being able to fully, uh, you know, spread its wings and do its, do its thing. And that’s, that’s the big part. I think to me know that, um, by the way, Lee, um, Melissa and I talk about it often. Uh, we, we admire what you do and we admire like you just taking that two months here and now that we hear that you’re homeschooling because I feel like you’re like, we’re all in a very similar point. We’re like, I’m tired of how everything has been done. Yes, it doesn’t work like that anymore and it’s like exactly, I want to put my hair out and I’m like, we’ve talked about like when we have kids, you know, homeschooling because the world is this is school. The the world, not like not what they tell you in a freaking textbook and like, you know, down the street, like that’s only one singular point of view, but this, there’s there’s this whole world of experiences out there that impact us as human beings which impacts us as entrepreneurs which impacts us with every as parents and as friends. And if we can just get out from these blinders that society has given us and what the status quo has said, well I think we’ll all quickly realize holy shit life is amazing and what we have at our fingertips is is is out of control and and um, how fortunate we all are.
Lee:
I think that you’ve, again, flipping it, flipping around, you’ve been able to sum up, I think, what I’ve said and what I’ve been feeling, you know, is not wanting to just be doing the same old same old, not being doomed to, and I’m not saying doomed because some people thrive on life in the same place, right, and doing those things, you know, that’s… but but I am not made for that. I can’t cope being in the same place all the same time doing the same thing with the same routines forever. So for me, I don’t want to repeat that, like rinse and repeat of family life. I have a kid, you know, get old, retire, they do the same as we did and their kids do the same as we did. So, you know, this is all about just doing something completely different and being the new rich in all without actually being rich with the money in the bank, but by being rich in the lifestyle. So you can still enjoy a free and rich lifestyle without much money at all. You don’t need much money at all to enjoy that because you’re just making different… we’re just making different choices. And we still probably earn a lot less than the people who are chained to their big mortgage back in the village that we live.
Steve:
I have, um, yeah, I mean, I have friends who, um, they work 90, 80, 90 hours a week. They have a two million dollar house. Don’t get me wrong, the house is a beautiful, beautiful, but they work 80, 90 hours a week and they have two living nannies that raise their kids and they never see their kids and all they do is work. I love the quote, um, you know, rich people are so poor all they have are things. You know, because all I haven’t heard that. I may have just butchered it. I may have butchered that whole quote, but it’s something along those lines of like, because, oh my God, rich people are so, but because that’s all they have, I got things but there’s no substance behind any of those things. Like I tell you what, you want to be rich, you know, like it sit alone for an sit alone for a whole day and not talk to anyone. Just be alone with your thoughts, you know, and I’m like that that’s rich right there. And if you’re able to do that and not fill your mind with clutter and useless crap because, you know, again we wear that as a badge. You know, I work in 90 hours a week and I have a whole house full of useless crap. I’ve made it. I’m rich. Well, good luck to you, sir. I do not want to live like you. But that all comes around as well, doesn’t it, to fulfillment, doesn’t it? And and we are peppered with Facebook ads and I blame Facebook for this in its entirety because there are so many of these, um, men and women online now who are selling us these courses and a lot of it’s based with images of them in a big posh house or with a freaking Lamborghini or whatever it is and saying you can get this lifestyle. And I think you alluded to it very early on in the conversation where they’re like trying to sell these business models where you can just sell your 10k a month Facebook clients and stuff like that, you know, and that’s just feeding, uh, feeding this perception, which has always been there hasn’t it for years, which is I need to have these stuff, these things, this stuff or these signs of affluence to be satisfied and yet I’ve never been satisfied by stuff ever.
Lee:
Right.
Steve:
Hmm. I thought is that is that completely true? I do really like my iPhone, but other than that… Yeah, you know, anything it’s it’s funny. We’re going through this exercise now. We’re we’re packing our stuff up. Like we’re packing stuff up and like we’re going through things and it’s like, well, why why do we have this? Like why do we need… Melissa, why are you keeping your Spanish book from ninth grade? I don’t under… like we have Google and we have Duolingo and like there’s no need to keep a Spanish book from ninth grade. There’s no need to keep…
Lee:
There is logic. There is a logic here.
Steve:
Well, first of all, it’s sentimental, but the second one is if the Walking Dead ever actually happens, that means the internet goes down, right? She will have a Spanish book so that she can communicate.
Lee:
Yeah, so when you all run off to Mexico to be safe she’ll be able to communicate, which is right there.
Steve:
I can see it right here. There you go. So that is a good reason to keep Spanish dictionary. It is. There’s a lot of like hoarding and and and all that stuff. Like people, they get, they there, there’s a sentimental attachment. Just okay. And you maybe it’s the older generation, you know, our parents’ generation, you know, especially here, they came from the Great Depression and whatever you had you keep that. This is our stuff. Don’t touch our stuff. And um, and wow, with Uber and Airbnb and the sharing economy, how we are turning that perception on its head because now we don’t necessarily need to own stuff. Uber does not own a vehicle. Facebook doesn’t own content. Amazon doesn’t really own any products. You know, you’ve heard, we’ve all seen that, um, you know, those Airbnb doesn’t own a house, but yet they are in the business of allowing people to to leverage the service to get that, to get that stuff they need for only that small amount of time. And um, yeah, dude, I the whole minimalism have you ever have you seen that documentary The Minimalist?
Lee:
No, but I feel like I should do because I think you’re the third person to mention that once I’ve been here.
Steve:
Oh yeah, it’s uh, it’s really, it’s a good one. You, um, you were mentioning how, you know, you guys live very modestly in a modest house and you don’t have like a lot of shit and everything and they’re they’re very much um in that same tune where I mean they take it obviously to an extreme like they’re traveling for 18 months with a suitcase and let’s be real I like jackets and sneakers like I don’t know if I can do that. Um, but with that, with what they are saying is like it’s what it’s what we’re saying is we don’t need this stuff to make us happy. We just need, um, you know, we need ourselves first and and the people around us and the stuff that we do have is going to be great stuff, you know what I mean? Like I’m going to have top of the line shit, but I’m not going to have a hundred top of the line knives. I just need one really good knife or one really good jacket. I don’t need 10 jackets. Like that’s way too much. Like why do we need that? I wear a black t-shirt like Lee of all. We wear black t-shirts. Why do I have to wear anything else? And it works for Steve Jobs pair of jeans, white sneakers, and black t-shirts. Zuckerberg the same thing.
Lee:
Well, there’s a whole psychology behind it that that’s one less decision that they have to make every day, you know. You have these high achieving individuals and their days are full of decision making. So by already having a predetermined outfit to wear every day, but the same thing, one less decision, less mental fortitude it takes, more that they could put towards a different project or…
Steve:
And it’s also like a brand as well because we all remember Steve Jobs is Steve Jobs. His brand was part of his brand was the old black t-shirt and his sneakers and jeans. I think you want to know what made that successful though? Was he didn’t go out and say this is my brand. He was consistent every time you saw him and every time he delivered he consistently over time dressed like that and that just kind of became his thing. And, you know, a lot of what I talk about is personal branding and the number one rule of personal branding is just being consistent in whatever it is that you do or say because there’s nothing that’s going to kill a brand more than inconsistencies.
Lee:
Amen, brother. Amen.
Lee:
And I think on that pill of wisdom we should probably look to wrap up today’s show because there has been too much awesomeness. If we do any more people’s brains are going to explode.
Steve:
That would be bad. Yeah, we… oh my God, I listened to Lee and Steven this morning and then my brain started leaking out of my ear. What’s this coming out of my ear? This has been phenomenal. We have to do this again and I think we’ve only just begun to chip away at, at, you know, something that I think is bubbling inside of a lot of us is that whole work life, agency life balance and priorities and creating the agencies that we want to create and the lives that we want to create. And I think over the next few months, um, with Frank as well that I mentioned, I’m going to be doing some streams with Frank where we’re going to be talking about helping design our lives and the whole purpose I’m doing this is because I want to know and I feel like, yeah, the community probably want to know as well, which is why you’re here and hopefully you’ll come on again. We’ll do this maybe…
Lee:
Definitely.
Steve:
A couple of weeks time, um, because I’ll be traveling next week and let’s like keep unpacking this and as a community if you’re watching this, if you’re listening to this as well, let’s get involved in this conversation. Um, how can we all help each other? How can we be accountable to each other? How can we design our lives without going down the line of, um, you know, going for one of these, uh, sleazy-looking courses online that’s going to give us, you know, for 47 dollars, that’s going to give us the rip tabs and, uh, and everything else?
Lee:
Get rich quick schemes.
Steve:
Yeah, exactly. Why don’t we go for, you know, how, how can we help each each other kind of really start to unpack the important things in life and make real changes in our lives, um, without opting for those courses but actually let’s do this as friends as peers as equals as family because I feel like WP Innovator group and everyone over in Creative Hustler as well, um, our family, um, and we are two communities I think they’ve got a lot in common. Um, so maybe, maybe we should rock this one over in Creative Hustler next week.
Lee:
I think we should. I think we should. Uh, this is phenomenal.
Steve:
Guys, thanks for having me on. Um, Lee, you are just awesome. I have, if I had to give you a Yelp review I’d still be writing it from like a month ago because it’d be like 17 stars and like everything just keep going. It’s just how awesome this Lee is and so um, humble that you had me on and you’re a legend.
Lee:
I am going to bid everyone adieu by pressing the stop broadcast button. Let’s see what happens. Hopefully nothing will blow up and go and that wraps up episode number 91, the wildcard episode. Please be sure to check out Steve and Melissa’s website over on thecreativehustler.com. Links to everything are in the show notes. You have been legendary inside of the Facebook community. If you’re not a part of it, head on over to wpinnovator.com forward slash group. Let’s not do this alone. Let’s not do agency life. Let’s not do entrepreneurialism. Let’s not do life alone. And let’s create a community of people that are there for each other, there to support each other, accountable, all of that good stuff because it’s the WP Innovator group over the last couple of years that’s really helped me grow as an agency owner and I’m pretty sure there are people in the group who could testify to the same. In fact, if you’re listening to this right now and the group has had an impact on your life then please get in touch and share how the group has affected your life and in what ways because we want to make the group better and we want to facilitate more change in people’s lives. Guys, you are awesome. I think I’ve said that many times but I’m just fired up because that was such a great episode and I was so happy to share this impromptu kind of unplanned. I mean we planned the live stream but didn’t plan to actually make this into a podcast as well. So hope you enjoyed. There is going to be more good stuff like this coming in the near future. Have a brilliant day and we will see you in episode 92.