Note: This transcript was auto generated then some poor soul sat and listened to it, and followed through correcting any mistakes they spotted. Please however expect human error and shout if you spot an issue. Email: lee [fancy curly symbol] trailblazer.fm.
Verbatim text
Lee:
Welcome to the WP Innovator Podcast, the podcast for web designers and design agencies, exploring the world of WordPress and online business. And now your host, Lee Jackson.
Lee:
Hello and welcome to episode number 101. We are finally in three figures, and we’re over the 100 mark. If you didn’t get an opportunity to listen to episode 100, I highly recommend that. It’s a solo episode with yours truly talking about the history of the podcast, what we’ve learned, what we’re still struggling with, and the future of the show. It’s a really cool episode. And in today’s show, we’re going to be talking with my mate, Justin. He’s someone I’ve known for many years. We’ve done church together, we’ve done business together. And today on the podcast, we’re talking about his agency, how he’s grown his lessons, and also the joy of having a bricks and mortar building that people can actually walk in off of the street. That is really random. I kind of feel hidden away above my coffee shop in Wellingborough, whereas Justin is right there on the street. You can walk into their front door and say hello. So this is a brilliant episode. If you are not part of the Facebook group, can I encourage you to head on over to wpinnovator.com forward slash YouTube. And that will redirect you. We would love it if you would subscribe. There is tons of content on that already. I’ve been doing up to four videos, if not five videos a week for a very long time, talking about a whole range of subjects that affect business owners, especially design agency owners, web agency owners, people like you and me, because the struggle is real. So that is a awesome place to be in my absolute 100% biased opinion. Anyway, on with the episode, sit back, relax, enjoy the ride, and please keep your arms and legs in the vehicle at all times.
Lee:
Hello and welcome to the WP Innovator Podcast. This is your host, Lee. And on today’s show, we have my mate, Justin Widup, on the line. Buddy, how are you doing?
Justin:
I’m very well, mate. Thank you for having me on. How are you?
Lee:
I’m doing good. This is like third time is a charm because we’ve tried to kick off this show three times and technology has conspired to not allow us. And I actually think it’s scientifically proven that the third time is always the best time. It’s always the time that everything works no matter what.
Justin:
Well, let’s hope that’s true, mate, on this occasion.
Lee:
Mate, I believe, okay?
Justin:
I’m with you. I’m standing with you.
Lee:
Anything can happen if you just believe.
Justin:
Well, so they say. So they say.
Lee:
Whoever they, I’d love to know who the heck they are because they are so freaking opinionated and think they know everything, don’t they?
Justin:
Well, on this occasion, I hope they know well, mate.
Lee:
I shall be going to the highest authority. Anyway, anyway, guys, Justin is a really good mate of mine. We’ve been friends for many years. We were at the same church for a long time. And around the same time, we both decided to go ahead and start our own agencies, which is pretty darn cool. And we now live in different locations and have been following each other over the years, just seeing how each other doing, giving each other support, etc. And I thought it was about time I had Justin on the podcast because I just loved seeing your journey, mate, over the years and kind of how you’ve diversified and grown your brand. It’s been, you know, you’ve been a phenomenal success and it’s a success, sorry. And it’s been great seeing what you’ve been doing. But also Justin had me recently on his podcast. He’s launching that in a few short weeks’ time, just to put pressure on you there, mate. So I will make sure that I share that in the Facebook group as well, guys, so that you know when Justin’s podcast is live. So that’s my introduction to you, buddy. Why don’t you just say hi, tell everyone your favorite color, you know, maybe what, you know, your favorite football team is or your favorite food or what you like to do at a weekend and a bit about your business as well. Just anything really.
Justin:
Awesome. Well, as you said, mate, my name is Justin Widup, and I run an agency called Choose Purple, and I guess we’ll talk a little bit more about the story behind that maybe a little bit later in the show. Indeed. Yeah, I’m from further up north, and you are in the mighty United Kingdom, just around the Sheffield area, married, one wife, which is enough. But good. And then two little girls as well, one nine and one 11. The 11-year-old’s just started high school, so dad is freaking out a little bit, but there we go. Favorite color: it should be purple, but in fact it’s blue. And the reason it’s blue is because of the other thing you mentioned, the football team I support, which I’ll not mention because, you know, it could put people off before we even started. And yeah, what do I like doing? I love running the business, but I also like just hanging out with the family and having fun, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I’m not a massive hobbyer of climbing mountains or playing sports or anything like that, mate. I just like chilling out and eating chicken tikka masala.
Lee:
I’m with you on the chicken tikka masala. Obviously, I’m with you on the family thing as well. And when you say the business, have you kind of found that like being in business or doing business is actually kind of your main hobby anyway?
Justin:
Yeah, to an extent I’d say yes, because I enjoy it. And the truth is that if you don’t enjoy it, then why do it? Maybe you’d think about doing something else if you don’t enjoy it, even though there are seasons. So yes, I do, but I’m also very keen on, you know, as much as possible, even though it’s really, really difficult, making sure that you separate that work and that home because it’s so easy to merge the two together. But when you merge the two together constantly, that can cause, you know, stress and pressure and so on and so forth. And so yeah, definitely. But with balance as well, I think is the way that I try and do it. Although, as I say again, it ain’t that easy.
Lee:
It ain’t. And I’m actually interested. You mentioned seasons, and sometimes there are times when I think I don’t enjoy what I’m doing. How do you cope? Because, I mean, the grand scheme of things is yes, I do enjoy what I do, but sometimes it feels like the planets are conspiring against me to make a few weeks really, really difficult for me. How do you kind of ride those storms?
Justin:
I think it’s difficult, isn’t it? I think I once read an interesting book, and it’s the whole principle of the book is about filling your tank. And it’s about that because when you’re a business owner, you’re constantly giving out, whether you’re giving out to clients, you know, you’re giving out to staff, you’re giving out energy, all these sorts of things. What you’re doing is you’re emptying your tank, you’re emptying who you are as an individual. And as the more you give out, the more you empty until the fact, to the point you’ve got nothing left to give. So the key is to keep that balance right. Ask the questions: what does fill your tank? Is it certain parts of the business more than others because that’s your sweet spot? Is it hanging out with your family? Is it, you know, going to movies? Is it going playing sport? Is it going to the gym? If you’re crazy, you know, all those different things. It’s about getting that balance right. And if you go too long giving out, giving out, giving out and not getting in, then that’s when you can, that season becomes, you know, it can become impossible. So it’s just about getting that balance right on a consistent basis and being aware of that. Because I think when we’re doing well, we can just keep running and running and running and running, but you can’t do that because at some time it will catch you up. So it is about balance and knowing what empties my tank and what fills the tank and making sure you get that balance right. That’s what I try and do anyway.
Lee:
I love that concept. And I don’t know why I’ve never heard of this before. It seems really damn obvious. And I think I kind of do it sometimes, but often I forget. And that running and running and running, you know, just doing and doing and constantly giving out, creating content, doing stuff for clients, etc. And then you kind of reach the end of your tether. And for me, I have to like go and lock myself away for a couple of days and just recharge, not be away from the phone, be away from people. But I guess if you can, instead of doing what I do quite often, so this is a confession, guys, hold me accountable in the group, please. But instead of like just running until I’m on empty, maybe trying to find some time to actually keep that tank topped up. I like it. I’m going to call you Mr. Miyagi for the rest of the show. I’m happy with that. Although, yeah, I’m happy with that. He’s slightly better looking than me as well. So that’s good.
Justin:
Seriously?
Lee:
No. I was going to say.
Justin:
No, not at all. Hopefully not anyway.
Lee:
Yeah, I don’t know. That’s very low self-esteem if you think that.
Justin:
Well, depends which one though. Is it the old Mr. Miyagi or the new one?
Lee:
Well, Jackie Chan. He’s not a lot better, is he, to be fair? So either way, I’m stuffed.
Justin:
Well, anyway, no, Jackie Chan’s pretty cool. I’d go, because he can do all the crazy kind of ninja stunt things, can’t he? Yeah, he’s not too bad. Let’s put it that way. He’s a legend.
Lee:
He is, mate. He is. But this is not about films. This is about agency life. And one thing I’m really intrigued to know is why have you called yourself Choose Purple? And why the purple everywhere?
Justin:
Yeah, everything is purple, purple, purple. The reason that we went with that particular name is because of a, again, it’s down to a book. You’d think I would have read lots of books, but I probably don’t. But it shows the impact they can have. Years and years ago, before the even idea of running the business was in my head, I read a book called The Purple Cow by a guy called Seth Godin, who’s a well-known marketing guru in America, blogging and so on and so forth. And he wrote this book called The Purple Cow. And the beginning of the book starts by telling a particular story. And I’ll tell you that story really quickly. I am slightly paraphrasing. Because it’s one of those things where you’re told the story that many times that you forget the original, but you’ve got your own version of it. And the story is simple, where he’s in France with his family on vacation. And they’re traveling through the French countryside, which is very different than where they’re from in America. It’s the complete opposite. And they’re driving through the countryside. It’s him and his wife and his kids in the back. And they’re driving through. And as they sort of look out the window, so left and the right, there’s fields full of cows. And so they drive in along and they’re like, oh, look at all these cows. Because they’ve never seen anything quite like this before, where they’re from. This doesn’t happen. And they’re like, oh, this is amazing. This is remarkable. Look at all these cows. And they keep driving along. And sort of a mile down the road, there’s still all these cows. And they’re like, oh, cool. But then sort of two miles down the road, they’ve sort of forgot about the cows. Even though the cows are still there, they’ve sort of just moved on. They’re back sort of having a chat. And the kids are back on their phones or whatever it might be. And four miles down the road, the cows are still there. But they’re not even noticing the cows. And then Seth sort of says this. He says, but imagine if right in the middle of all those cows is a purple cow. Now that would be remarkable. And the whole principle of the book is building a business that is that purple cow.
Lee:
Yeah.
Justin:
That amongst every other cow, your cow is the one that stands out and that people see and that people engage with. And that is the principle of the business, helping other businesses be that purple cow.
Lee:
I like it. Helping other people stand out and actually helps you guys stand out as well. Because let’s face it, it does feel like a crowded market.
Justin:
Yeah.
Lee:
There are a lot of us about.
Justin:
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So there’s a lot of people do what we do. But, you know, there is, there’s always, I think there’s always room in every industry for new businesses. If you’re good enough, if you do what you say you’re going to do, and if you build your business in the right way, and you can add value to others, I think there’s always room, no matter how crowded the market. And people say ours is particularly crowded. But I think there’s always room for people that do it well.
Lee:
I like it. And obviously, you know, don’t everyone go purple because then we’re going to have to like come up with another color to stand out.
Justin:
Yeah, there’s no more room for purples, mate, I think. Just, but every other color is fine.
Lee:
Every other color is absolutely fine. So, I mean, like I said, we started our agencies kind of at the same time. And you also had a job at the same time. At what point did you go, right, I am going to start this agency? And then how did you get into it? Because I think quite a few people who listen to the show kind of do freelancing on the side, and they’re looking to kind of take that jump. So do you mind kind of sharing a bit of that story, how you went from, you know, from one place to getting to the agency level?
Justin:
Yeah, I mean, it’s a bit of a crazy story, and I don’t know whether I’d recommend it. But when we talked about seasons, I obviously went through a season where it was insane, really, because I’d be running two full-time jobs, to be honest with you. So I’d get up at sort of five in the morning or whatever it might be, do a few hours’ work for the company that I was starting, which obviously was Choose Purple. Then I’d go to work and do my day job, and then I’d come home and then work again at night. And then I’d work weekends. So I was working, you know, you wouldn’t recommend it, but it was how I did it at the time. But I also had a guy with me that, in circumstances for him, allowed this. He’s sort of my key designer from day one. I employed him and from day one it was a very, very flexible basis, but obviously I had him with me from day one. And that was really, really crucial. And circumstances allowed that. And so I managed to build the business that way. So within sort of three months, maybe four months, I went part-time, one job part-time, the other, which was great. And then within six months, I went completely full-time in the agency. So, but it was hard work. And at times I thought it was going to, you know, it was going to kill me. But that’s how we went. And the truth is I didn’t really have any experience within this industry. It’s not an industry that I’d been involved in completely before I delved in it. And because of what I did before, I was involved in it to an extent, but I’d never run an agency before, never was fully in this industry before, but knew that that was a way that I wanted to go and felt that I could, you know, build a business within this industry. So yeah, that’s the story in a nutshell, mate.
Lee:
And when you then kind of decided, well, I’m going to do this, I’m going to get up super early and kind of do these two things at the same time to see whether or not I’m going to go off in this new direction, this new season. What were the first things you started to do, the activities you started to do to generate leads? Because again, you’ve got people who’ve got some skills that maybe want to branch out into either freelance or into agency life. And again, how did you start to generate those initial leads from nothing? Cause obviously you started from completely from scratch.
Justin:
Yeah. I think the first thing is I didn’t doubt whether this was going to work. I went in with the mentality that this is going to work. So this is going to happen. Yeah. We’re going full on into this and I left no room for doubt because I think if you’re going to do something, you’ve got to go full into it. And I think that helped with that mentality because it gives confidence to the people you’re speaking to as well, your client, your potential clients, lead generation. The early days, you know, if I’m honest with you, the main thing for me was every time I got a client, I went over and above in the early, and I still do. We still do now. It’s part of the ethos of who we are, but I made sure that every client, no matter what the value of the job was, you know, they just felt like they were our only client. And in many ways, even though we’re a marketing agency, in many ways, our business has grown through word of mouth and through referral because we’ve always looked after people. But I think in the early days, primarily I worked hard on social media, very, very hard on social media. And our first job came through Twitter, for example. And since then, many of our jobs have come through whether it be Twitter, whether it be Facebook, whether it be LinkedIn. And in the early days, I really, really worked hard on the social media side of things. So that was one thing because obviously if you know what you’re doing, then that doesn’t actually cost you anything. So budget-wise, it’s sensible. I used some freelance websites as well to sort of get some jobs through that. When you first start out, you’re sort of having to do stuff for not a lot of money, but then if you can retain those clients, then you can do well out of it. So we did that. And then the third thing that I did was networking in person, which, listen, I hate doing it, but it does work. And I still do that today. So probably, Lee, they were the three key things that we did that helped start to generate those clients that had a lot of those clients from, you know, those years ago are still with us today. Not all of us.
Lee:
Brilliant. Consistent social media. So kind of form of free marketing and exposure. So being consistent in social media, you talked about as well the networking, obviously you said you hate. Do you still hate networking or do you have you kind of grown to love it?
Justin:
Yeah. It’s probably in between those two things you’ve just said. Like, I don’t love it, but I don’t hate it either.
Lee:
Very good political answer.
Justin:
Yeah, exactly. President. I should, yeah. Theresa May move the heck out of my way.
Lee:
Oh, please someone kick her out. Anybody, anybody.
Justin:
And then lastly as well was the, you know, going through freelance sites. I mean, I remember when I first started, one of my sources was People Per Hour, just getting—
Lee:
Oh, same. Nice one. Great minds think alike, mate.
Justin:
People Per Hour, just getting a few small contracts there and not working for peanuts, but not necessarily working for a lot of money either, but it does. It gets you in touch with people, doesn’t it? And again, you were saying about treating them like royalty, like they were the only client. Referrals are so powerful. And again, like you, we do find we get a lot of referrals nowadays from clients who are super happy with how they’ve been looked after. We will then get referred on as well. But you know, if you are listening now and you’re thinking, I want to diversify, I want to get my own agency, or I want to start my own freelance business. Those are three really valuable pieces of advice. Show up on social media, find opportunities on those freelance websites and get out there pressing the flesh, networking with people because yeah, it can kind of be a boring slash a bit scary. But when you get out and meet loads of people, it’s surprising how many opportunities there are out there. I mean, just quickly off subject, you know, the way I’ve networked is to just simply make friends with people and offer them lots of help. And then not even try and tell them what I do necessarily. I build sites, that’s about all they need to know. And then they kind of connect me with people. Have you found kind of the same scenario out there in the networking scene?
Justin:
Yeah, absolutely. I think if you go in with the right mentality, then it works. People aren’t stupid. And I think if you walk into these things, even the same applies to social media, for sure. If you go into these things with the sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell mentality, people see that a mile away and it automatically puts people off. But if you go in there with, you know, I’m here to add value to this thing. I’m here to play my part. I’m here to help. Then I pretty much guarantee that it works. And once people trust you and once people understand you, they will refer you. Sometimes that can take a bit of time and sometimes it can happen instantly. But you hit the nail on the head a little bit, I think, Lee. It’s all about consistency. If you give up after a month, then it will not work. If you give up on social media after a month, it will not work. You’ve just got to be consistent and keep doing it. Keep repeating it. And eventually, you know, it will pay off for you and you’ll get a return on your investment, whether that be time, finance, whatever it may be.
Lee:
Amen, brother. Amen. That’s brilliant. Now, kind of fast forwarding, I remember kind of the early days you were very heavy on social media, actually for other clients as well, and building sites, etc. You now do a huge range of services. And I presume you did them all from the very beginning. But can you just kind of give us a feel for when you first started? What were the most popular services versus fast forward four years and kind of what do you find yourselves doing the most nowadays?
Justin:
Evolution, my brother, evolution. Yeah, early days, probably a lot of it, in fact, not probably, was a lot of it was social media, so running social media accounts for clients, which we still do a lot of that and have two staff on that particular area alone. So that is an area for us that we still work hard on. But in the early days, it might have been around sort of 80% of the business. And I did a lot of that in the early days, whereas now it’s probably around maybe 40%, maybe a little bit less than that. So we still do a lot of that. But it’s a very, people come in it, people come out of it, people go in it, people come out of it, etc. So that’s that side of things. We also, our biggest area now is probably websites. That’s probably our biggest area, and maybe taking up around 50%. And then beyond that, the rest of the percentage, if you were to make a little colorful pie chart out of it, the rest will be made up of video. So primarily, we do sort of animation in terms of videos for all sorts of clients. We do design, sort of graphic design, branding, etc., etc. And then we do SEO and all the other digital side of things as well, Facebook ads, strategy, etc., etc. And that’s pretty much everything that we do. Oh, and email marketing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Lee:
You’re a full service agency. That is a thing of beauty, my friend.
Justin:
We are quite full, yes. Yeah, and that helps us in many ways as well.
Lee:
Well, just for us anyway, because some people like as much as they can. I’m not sure what your experience of it is. But I think some clients will like to be able to deal with one person, it’s just easier.
Justin:
Yeah.
Lee:
Or one company.
Justin:
I get that. I mean, we are a digital department for hire for agencies. And a lot of the agencies will actually ask us to represent them. So as far as the client experience, the client is still working with their agency and only billing one person, etc. And then, you know, the agency themselves are then dealing with paying all the different suppliers, etc. Again, people do like that one-stop shop, don’t they? That one relationship. They don’t have lots of different people to manage from different businesses. So I get that.
Lee:
And love that. Yeah. Because that actually helps our business as well. Now you did something pretty, pretty surprising. Most of us have our shop front on the internet. So we all hide behind our computers. And we, you know, we have our love, like us, we’re above a cafe now. And my diet’s gone out the window because they do a full English breakfast with sausages and bacon and beans and you name it. And we can smell it at 6 a.m. in the morning. It smells flipping amazing. And I had some this morning, I have to confess. So, you know, I’m hiding away upstairs above a cafe. But you guys have actually gone for the full shop front bricks and mortar on a street. Dude, tell me, how did that come about? And how have you found it so far?
Justin: Well, yeah, it probably is a little bit opposite to many. But I think that’s just down to my personal preference. I like to have people around me. And I like as much as possible. It’s not always possible. We’re not fully this way. But I do like to have people around me. So that’s probably the main, probably the key reason is, whether we were, and this is debatable, whether we were stuck on an industrial estate, sort of somewhere, or in serviced offices, or whether we were on a main road, you know, with a shop front, was up for debate. But what I certainly wanted to do was have people around me. That was the main priority. Because that’s how I work best and feel because of that, we will work best. But when we were looking around, I thought, well, if we can find somewhere that gives us sort of free advertising as well, or get on a main sort of road, whatever it might be, then that would help as well. And so that’s what we did. We found somewhere that has great passing traffic, as it were, on a daily basis, thousands and thousands and thousands of vehicles, and set the office up that way. So people can come into this place at any point and discuss what it is that they might need. And because, again, we’re full service, we do offer a lot of services, so there’s always a service for somebody. And that has worked quite well for us. It can be annoying at times, I’ve got to be honest with you, can be frustrating at times when you get, you know, little old Sheila from down the road, who wants a passport photo printing off. Because the business that was in here before that did passport photos. And that happens like four times a week. That frustrates us. In the early days, anyway.
Lee:
But yeah, it’s…
Justin:
The question is, do you do a passport picture?
Lee:
Well, it’s interesting. No, I didn’t. No, no, I said, go away. No, I didn’t.
Justin:
Go down to Bootsies, they do it.
Lee:
Yeah, the interesting thing is, the company that were here before are only three doors down the street.
Justin:
Oh, right.
Lee:
So we’re constantly saying, three doors down the street, three doors down the street to everyone that comes in.
Justin:
You could rename your business.
Lee:
Yeah.
Justin:
Three doors down the street.
Lee:
Then sometimes, like, someone will come in that looks like their little old Sheila after a passport photo.
Justin:
Yeah.
Lee:
And you think, oh, come in for that. And they actually want a million pound website. So don’t judge a book by its cover.
Justin:
You’ve had a million pound website? Or are you lying?
Lee:
Never. No, I’m lying.
Justin:
Okay.
Lee:
Because I was just, this podcast was just going to take a whole new level and you were going to unpack the five keys to winning a million pound website.
Justin:
No. Sorry. Sorry. That was a lie. Full on lie.
Lee:
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Justin:
I know.
Lee:
I’m messing with you, man.
Justin:
No, that’s brilliant. I could just imagine, you know, people coming in. Silly question, but do you have, like, a bell on the door so that when people come in, it rings? Come on, tell me you do.
Lee:
Oh, mate.
Justin:
No, mate. No, no. We’re not. We’re further up north than you, mate, so we don’t do that.
Lee:
Or just a boop, boop. No, or a ding-a-ling. No, that’d be wicked. I’m going to buy you one for Christmas, I think.
Justin:
Buy me one. Send one to me, mate. But no, we don’t. We literally have a door that you walk through, mate.
Lee:
Yeah.
Justin:
And you’re in.
Lee:
And it doesn’t make a ding-a-ling.
Justin:
It doesn’t do anything, mate. It opens and that’s as far as it goes.
Lee:
I literally feel like if I had a door on a street, I would have to have a bell on it as well, just so I knew people were coming in. Do you, like, is it both? So now we find out more information here. Do you have two levels here or are you just all on the one level?
Justin:
Yeah, we do have two, yeah.
Lee:
So you can hide away?
Justin:
Yeah, if need be, yeah.
Lee:
Yeah, that’s good because, like, I’ve had times when I’ve been, like, now on a podcast and then someone from another office will come and stick their head in and start trying to catch my eye and start to talk to me, etc. So I was just imagining how difficult that might be for you guys if you were all kind of in the shop front and people could just wander in at any time.
Justin:
Yeah, exactly. And I think the truth is that when we first sort of took on the premises, now we were smaller than we are now. We’ve sort of outgrown these. And so next year we will move again. So the whole search carries on again and we’ll see where that takes.
Lee:
That’s fantastic. I love that, mate. So a lot of your work is, I guess, project to project, but have you managed to kind of solve the ongoing agency dream of finding some way of generating ongoing revenue so you’ve got a bit of a better cash flow forecast?
Justin:
Well, the social media is excellent for that. Because it’s a guaranteed, you know, it’s a guaranteed income. It’s a guaranteed retainer from clients on a monthly basis. So we know that, okay, it’s the month of October. We know that we have got X amount of pounds coming in the bank this month without fail. So we have that. And because we also do, you know, hosting of sites as well. So that’s guaranteed income. Some of it, some maintenance as well, some SEO. So all those side of things are all, we know that money is coming in. Earlier this year, we’ve not pushed it a great deal. We do like a pay monthly option on our website. So we have some of those clients. So I feel it’s important because I don’t want to be constantly thinking, are we going to make enough money? Are we going to make enough money? We have a certain amount that we know is coming in every month, which really, really helps. So we have a percentage like that. And then, of course, the rest, like everybody else, we have to go find it on a regular basis. But we do have a lot of retained clients that will come back to us for all our services. So, again, there’s another percentage per month that’s clients that we just work with on a regular basis.
Lee:
I’m pretty jealous. I definitely don’t have all that. I’ve got a few maintenance contracts. But for me, it is very much a case of project to project. Thankfully, we have an ongoing queue of projects. So people are waiting to actually use us, which is lovely. You know, and we’ve got a really nice looking pipeline of future projects that we can work on over the next few months and, well, for an entire year, basically, which is nice. But I would love to be able to kind of nail that. And I think that’s where you guys have a strength there compared to us where we’re just doing the one thing all the time. You guys have actually got the full service agency. So you’ve got quite a few routes that you can generate some ongoing revenue. So, guys, if you’re listening and you’re feeling like, you know, I could diversify, I could lend some skill towards social media or SEO or other ongoing pay-for services, then there’s some great ideas that Justin’s unpacking here just to generate some ongoing rev. Hashtag rev. Trying to be cool. And the other thing that people can do is, you know, there’s plenty of white-label opportunities out there as well to diversify. So, you know, obviously, you don’t make as much on that. But, you know, if you can get, you know, 10 clients on something that you’re not doing and you’re just outsourcing it, but each one of those is, I don’t know, you’re making an extra, let’s just say, £100, for example, on top, then you’re making £1,000 a month for doing nothing. And that’s definitely, you know, or £50, whatever, it’s definitely viable. And it’s just guaranteed income on a monthly basis.
Lee:
Now, one thing I want to ask you in a bit more detail is you said you were a lot smaller when you first took on your premises and now you’ve grown. Have you got any tips for agencies that are now having to grow people-wise? Any kind of hiring tips? Because obviously you started with your main guy, but I know you’ve got other people with you now. Have you got any top tips for hiring or growing your team?
Justin:
Yeah, it’s interesting because it’s all about the right people, isn’t it? In the right positions. So the truth is that, if I’m honest with you, the people that I’ve always employed, except for one person, I already knew them. So I already sort of knew a little bit about who they were. So I’m more interested in who they are than what they can do. That’s good. Because I think skill, to an extent, you can’t fill the baby out with bathwater, but to an extent you can train people in skill. And you can train people in how, you know, if it’s down to how to answer the phone or whatever it might be. You can train people in certain levels. I know you can’t maybe so much when it comes to coding, et cetera, et cetera. But there’s certain skills that you can teach, but it’s far more difficult to change a person in their character and integrity, et cetera. So it doesn’t matter what the position. I always look for that first. I always want to know that they are going to do things the right way, that they’re going to represent the company well, that they’re a good fit, cultural fit, et cetera, et cetera. So we get that, and then we look at skill after that. And that’s worked well for us. But as I say, most of the people I already knew to an extent, I think, I’ve got to be honest with you, and I know I’m probably talking more to the UK in this sense, but I think apprenticeships have got a great way. One of the guys here is full-time now. We took on an apprentice, and it’s worked really, really well. So I think that is certainly an avenue that people can go down. But I’m a big believer in training people, that if you invest into training people the right way, that can really, really pay off. And it may seem like a long way around, but for us, that’s worked really, really well.
Lee:
I think I want to echo that, especially on the apprenticeship side. Everyone knows Larissa. I mention her regularly. She’s been there for well over two years now, full-time. Came with no real website coding experience, and now is building WordPress themes with her eyes shut. I keep telling her to open her eyes. I mean, come on, Larissa. Anyway. But also, the idea of training people sounds really overwhelming, but it actually forces you to consider what your business does and your own processes. Because if you hire someone who’s got all of the skill and all of the expertise, you potentially just throw a whole load of work at them, and you don’t actually consider your own business processes. Whereas hiring Larissa and working out together her training and what she’s to do within the business actually forced us to work out, you know, what did our business do? And how do we onboard people? How do we build the site? How do we plan projects, et cetera? So it is a long way around, like you said, but I think it’s one of the most valuable ways, you know, to grow a business is to actually bring people in from the ground up who can grow with you.
Justin:
That’s phenomenal advice. I think so. And Larissa now looks like she’s about to burst into tears.
Lee:
Shut up and get back to work.
Justin:
Yeah. There you go. Close your eyes again. Crack on. Crack on. Crack on. Get coding now. You’ve got eight more websites to build before the end of the day.
Lee:
Yeah, and it’s four o’clock.
Justin:
And it’s four o’clock.
Lee:
Yeah. Oh, it is actually four o’clock. Look at that. There you go, mate. There you go. I can tell the time as well. I’m proud of you. I’m really proud of you. You’ve come a long way since I met you four years ago.
Justin:
I’m here all day, mate. I’m here all day.
Lee:
Here all day. Also, just knowing people, I think, is highly important. We’ve worked with freelancers as well, but I’ve known them for years. So just being able to know people, I think you can get an idea of their character, can’t you, and integrity, by knowing people and then kind of bringing them in the business. On the flip side, I would say that it doesn’t necessarily always work with family because in a previous business we did that and that didn’t work out too well. So there’s quite a few arguments.
Justin:
Yeah.
Lee:
I think if you cross that divide, as it were, that becomes a lot more difficult. So you do have to be careful with that particular one. So, mate, you mentioned integrity. And I believe that’s a big part of kind of your company’s ethos and mission statement. How do you go about demonstrating and communicating that mission and that belief to clients?
Justin:
Well, I think it’s not about, I don’t think these things are about what you say, it’s about what you do. The proof is in the pudding, as it were. So we can, the truth is that most people might say, because what clients want to hear, oh, we’ve got integrity. You can look at websites and they’ll say that, but it’s not about what you say. Integrity is all about what you do. So it’s displayed, not talked about. So I think it’s about, okay, this is what we say we’re going to do. This is when we say we’re going to do it by, and then delivering on those promises. And, you know, in our industry in particular, a lot of times that maybe doesn’t happen. And so when you do do that for a client, then they’re like, oh, great. It’s actually been done the way that I wanted it to be done and within the timeframe that I wanted it to be done. And if you can, and I prefer to sort of give a day out and say, we’re going to get it done by this time and then beat it by a couple of days. And just to show the client, you know, this is, we’re on this for you. So I just think it’s about being truthful with people and being honest with people. And when I say I’m going to do it or when we say we’re going to do it, we actually do it because integrity is a key part of who we are. And in 2017, it is not around as much as it used to be, or I don’t feel it is anyway. So when you do have it, it stands out. When you’ve got people’s trust, they will stay with you. They will stay with you. They’ll also recommend you as well.
Lee:
I mean, you are right. People say we are dedicated to, and we believe in honesty and integrity, but they are just words unless you can show this. And I’m guessing as well, I mean, you’ve got your, our work section. I was trying to work out a way of how do we show people that we have it? I mean, it’s okay to show it when you’ve won someone over. But how do you show new people that you have this integrity, et cetera? I’m kind of shooting the breeze now. This is kind of a conversation where you can give me some suggestions as well. I’m guessing like people recommending you, we’ve used them. They are the dog’s bee. You need to use these guys. But I mean, I’m kind of struggling to think of how else I could possibly show it.
Justin:
Yeah, I think testimonials is probably the main thing, isn’t it? And making those really, really clear. So we pretty much always recommend let’s get testimonials out there, but also making sure that, okay, they’re on your website and that could include, depending on what you do, it could include client stories, et cetera, et cetera, whether you go into detail of video as well with that, you know, depending on how far you want to go. But also just simple things like on your Facebook page, have you got people reviewing you on there? On your Google, have you got reviews on there as well? Because often people just miss those simple things, but they don’t cost anything. But if people are going to go and they’re going to see you on Google and you’ve got 20 reviews that say how awesome you are and how you do have integrity and how you delivered on what you say you’re going to deliver, et cetera, et cetera, then I think they’re simple things that sometimes we miss out, but it’s the proof of the pudding.
Lee:
I like that you guys though have made that part of your mission statement so that you guys are consciously thinking of how can we follow up with this? How can we demonstrate? How can we outwork, you know, this belief, this standard that we have? And that’s super encouraging. And I used to like roll my eyes when I heard that companies had mission statements, et cetera. But actually this is a good example of how, you know, you have a belief, you’ve got a, you’ve got something you want to aspire to, that you want to add value into people’s lives and honor people as well with that. And you are really following that up and you’re, you’re constantly conscious of it. And again, you know, mate, I feel like you guys are always streaks ahead of us because I’m always trying to catch up. I’m thinking this is a great idea. We need to have a meeting now next week and actually work some of this stuff out for ourselves. So I always love chatting to you, mate. Always a pleasure, mate. Always a pleasure. Always, always a pleasure. Surround yourselves with clever people, guys, because you’ll learn a hell of a lot from them. And Justin’s one of them. Mate, how can people get in touch? And then I’m going to beat you off the show.
Justin:
Well, yeah. I mean, thanks for that, mate. I’m not always like that. I’m usually a lot nicer. Yeah. I’m looking forward to it. I boot up my derriere. You kicked me off virtually. Yeah. Website is www.choosepurple.co.uk. And then people can email me direct on [email protected]. And I’m also pretty much on every social media channel out there. MySpace. No, apart from MySpace then. And I’m not on Snapchat either. It’s not really a social media channel, though. That’s one thing that you can’t really interact with. It’s more of a look at me.
Lee:
You say that, mate. But you ask any 14-year-old what they’re on, 16-year-old, and they are smashing it on Snapchat.
Justin:
Oh, are they? So, if you are aiming at sort of that age, mate, Snapchat is the platform to be on. Youth of today. When I was a lad, it was simple.
Lee:
Well, yeah. It was PHPBB Bulletin Board. Do you remember that?
Justin:
No, I don’t, mate.
Lee:
Well, there you go. It was an open-source bulletin board system that you’d install on your own website, and then three other people would come along and have an app with you. And then somehow Zuckerberg managed to make essentially a forum work, i.e. Facebook. We should start a campaign to bring it back.
Justin:
True.
Lee:
Really, all I want to do is go back in time, like find a time machine, like jot all these ideas down, and then I can be the one to have all these ideas.
Justin:
Thinking about it, I now prefer your idea.
Lee:
Yeah, true. Although, you know, there is one problem. It is all about the delivery, isn’t it? So, you know, Apple actually have consistently copied people’s ideas for years, and they deliver on them well. Actually, maybe I shouldn’t say that. Maybe I’m going to get sued for that, although I’m pretty sure other people have said that.
Justin:
Yeah, I think you’d be safe, mate. I think you’d be safe.
Lee:
Yeah. When I say copy, I mean being inspired by it and then delivered better than anyone else can do.
Justin:
Well, actually, there is the operating system, isn’t there? It was actually Xerox that had created the look and feel of a desktop-style operating system, and then Apple went and did it even better and delivered it better. There you go. All about the brand, mate. All about the brand.
Lee:
All about the brand. All about the brand. So that was a complete tangent, but thank you so much for being on the show. Remember, guys, you can find Justin and the team over at choosepurple.co.uk. And if you’re in, I believe it’s Nottinghamland, isn’t it? Somewhere around there.
Justin:
Yeah. Nottinghamshire slash South Yorkshire slash United Kingdom.
Lee:
Stick your head in and ask for a passport picture just to wind him up.
Justin:
And I will kick you out. Nicely, though. Nicely. Very nicely. No, no. Yeah. Pop in. Nice one. Take care, mate.
Justin:
Thanks. Thank you, mate. Bye.
Lee:
Bye Bye. That wraps up episode number 101. In next week’s episode, that’s a 102, we have my friend and a past client, Johnny Jensen, who is going to be talking about digital marketing and the fact that there are just not enough digital marketers out there. That is actual skilled ones. It’s a really interesting conversation, one that I really enjoyed. So that will be next week, episode 102. Remember, the YouTube channel is over on wpinnovator.com forward slash YouTube. Your support, your subscriptions, your likes, your watches, your comments are all really appreciated. Have a wonderful, wonderful week. And if you want to chat before the next show, the Facebook group is still there on wpinnovator.com/group.
Lee: Bye.
